An "End vs Means" Question

[mickeyfan2]

So, in this country, adultery is illegal, but rape isn't? Nice.

One needs to understand Islamic law. The rape of the sister is a huge disgrace to the entire man's family. I do not believe that a sister should be raped as justice for adultry.

 

[Maleficent13]

Absolutely not. Threatening the well being of an innocent to get your desires met (even if they are good) is still morally wrong.

Innocent to me would mean that the person HAS NO IDEA what is going one.

Your definition of an "innocent" would have to meet that criteria.

If the "innocent person" is aware of "issues" regarding the behavior of the other person then they are no longer innocent and your example is incorrect.

Well, I'm going to assume that the immediate family is aware of where the Dad works and what they do there. I'm going to also assume that the kids don't get a lot of say so in the family's occupational pursuits. So do they forfeit their innocence?

 

[noodleknitter]

No. I knew a guy in college who thought that bombing abortion clinics was OK...scary guy. Can't imagine threatening family.

 

[mickeyfan2]

She is the type of mom that believes everything she reads like underwire bras cause breast cancer, etc.

Oh great, now I am going to get breast cancer too.

 

[Beth76]

Innocent to me would mean that the person HAS NO IDEA what is going one.

Your definition of an "innocent" would have to meet that criteria.

If the "innocent person" is aware of "issues" regarding the behavior of the other person then they are no longer innocent and your example is incorrect.

I'm not following your logic at all. So, everyone who's aware that abortions occur are "guilty" of performing abortions?

 

[MickeysMommy]

So, you are saying that you have a friend with a career like above that you don't like and you want to threaten a family member with harm if they don't quit their job???? No, that is NOT acceptable. With your given examples, abortion is legal, right or wrong, not everyone believes the same thing about abortion. A scientist that works on animals, a LOT of people would be DEAD without that research, sorry, can't support you on that one. The stem-cell researcher, there are a lot of places to get stem-cells other then aborted fetus'. I am very supportive of scientific research for medical issues. Furrier, again, not everyone believes that wearing a fur is wrong. Personally, I have no feelings one way or another about wearing furs other then I think they are ugly and I wouldn't want one.

What makes what you are doing, threatening a family member, better then what they are doing in your mind?

No, that is NOT what she is saying Although, I agree with the posters that say No, more info is needed to really answer.

**Edited to add: Now, I see your post Mal. And, I still answer No and can definitely say for sure you weren't talking about a friend of yours. It is not acceptable to threaten someone for what their family does that you do not like or agree with. Same goes with corporations.**

 

[Race the Reaper]

 

[Maleficent13]

I'm not following your logic at all.

I don't get it either. I hope she comes back to clarify. I am thinking perhaps she was referring to women who go back to abusive spouses? Or spouses who enable their alcoholics? I really don't know though.

 

[jgmklmhem]

Your last question was the one I was really looking for an answer for. How is shooting an abortion doc better than what the abortion doc is doing? How is blowing up a scientist or his family better than the experiements he's doing on animals? Obviously, there are a lot of people out there who think it IS better.

At least in the abortion example I can give you the answer at least in their minds. In their minds abortion is murder. An abortion doctor maybe commits murder say 50 times in a year. Killing the "one" doctor would prevent 50 more deaths just for that year so in their minds it is justified. Trading one life for 50.

This kind of reasoning is used all the time in war. We dropped the bombs on Japan for this reason. Many innocents were killed to prevent the deaths of many more people in the long run.

 

[Race the Reaper]

This brings to mind a horrible story I read that happened in the middle east. I don't remember the exact country. A young man had an affair with a married woman. The judges ruling on this? That the sister of the young man was to be raped by 2 men. HUH??? An innocent person totally suffers but the offending person is off the hook. Wrong, Wrong, Wrong.

I wonder how they pick WHICH 2 men get to perform the rape?

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I'm not following your logic at all. So, everyone who's aware that abortions occur are "guilty" of performing abortions?

For starters I didn't know this was about abortion. I was answering the generic question.

As far as the "abortion debate"...what exactly is the point she is making? Cause I don't get it.

I don't consider murdering people as part of her question. She said "threaten" not murder.

The people in question are called TERRORISTS.

 

[cardaway]

I see it as torture and there are very few cases IMO where torture is necessary. More often than not, it's a tactic used by the bad guys.

 

[Beth76]

It's not about abortion, that was just an example that was thrown out. I'm trying to understand your logic. Are you saying that since someone knows that someone else is doing something morally objectionable (though legal) that those who know about it are also "guilty"?

 

[Maleficent13]

I don't disagree with your last statement, Mystery machine. I am still confused by the "innocence" question though, and this was not supposed to be an abortion debate (that's why I didn't give a specific example in my OP).

Also, these people who are threatening are doing so in action as well as word. They placed a bomb on the steps of a family home. Ironically, they got the address wrong and put it on the steps of the neighbor. I don't think anyone could argue that SHE wasn't truly innocent.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I don't disagree with your last statement, Mystery machine. I am still confused by the "innocence" question though, and this was not supposed to be an abortion debate (that's why I didn't give a specific example in my OP).

Well then please restate your question because I am totally confused now.

 

[Maleficent13]

Well then please restate your question because I am totally confused now.

Is it ever okay to threaten/try to harm the spouse, parents or children of an individual who is performing a legal but morally questionable act/job in order to get them to cease performing the act/job?

That's about as concise as I can make it!

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Is it ever okay to threaten/try to harm the spouse, parents or children of an individual who is performing a legal but morally questionable act/job in order to get them to cease performing the act/job?

That's about as concise as I can make it!

No ask the question in regards to what you are talking about, not generic.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Frankly I prefer to stay out of abortion debates so if that what this is about, I really don't want to get into it.

 

[Beth76]

No ask the question in regards to what you are talking about, not generic.

I think it can be answered generically. For me, it's not ok to harm anyone or anyone's family. I can't imagine a situation in which I think it would be ok to hurt someone else. Especially someone other than the person performing the questionable act.

 

[Maleficent13]

But my whole point was not to make it specific. I wanted to know if there was anyone who thought these tactics were EVER okay, and if they did, I wanted them to say in WHICH scenario they thought it was okay. Making it specific defeats the purpose of it. But, here it is stated with the 4 examples I already listed:

Is it okay to threaten/try to harm the spouse, parents or children of a scientist who is performing experiments on animals in order to get them to cease performing the experiments?

Is it okay to threaten/try to harm the spouse, parents or children of an individual who is performing abortions in order to get them to cease performing abortions?

Is it okay to threaten/try to harm the spouse, parents or children of an individual who is works on stem cell research in order to get them to cease performing research?

Is it okay to threaten/try to harm the spouse, parents or children of an individual who is a furrier in order to get them to cease making furs?