Amazed and Disappointed

[nicko]

Or that the number of people expressing dissatisfaction are so few that it makes very little difference, attendance wise. No offense intended, but it probably costs them more to keep the park open a couple of hours than what you spend on your whole vacation.

There has to be a great number of people expressing dissatisfaction for Disney to make a change. And as much as we like ourselves, the whole of the Dis does not equal a great number of people when you think of how many people visit the parks.

I don't doubt that a few dozen or even hundreds of email complaints from DIS readers won't move the needle on closing times. However, the tens of thousands of first time guests who just had a "meh" experience this summer are much less likely to return next year. Sure you save a buck this year by closing early, but it will cost you two bucks in fewer return guests next year. Last year I was at some Disney show (that i can't remember for the life of me) where the audience was asked how many folks were repeat visitors. It was the majority of the room. Imagine if you stopped converting first timers to repeat visitors. That sort of drop in business will be noticed. I realize that Disney courts the first time visitor. They spend more. But the repeat business is likely at least as large. Oh and I think it's the repeat customers that drive new first timers via positive word of mouth.

 

[maxiesmom]

I don't doubt that a few dozen or even hundreds of email complaints from DIS readers won't move the needle on closing times. However, the tens of thousands of first time guests who just had a "meh" experience this summer are much less likely to return next year. Sure you save a buck this year by closing early, but it will cost you two bucks in fewer return guests next year. Last year I was at some Disney show (that i can't remember for the life of me) where the audience was asked how many folks were repeat visitors. It was the majority of the room. Imagine if you stopped converting first timers to repeat visitors. That sort of drop in business will be noticed. I realize that Disney courts the first time visitor. They spend more. But the repeat business is likely at least as large. Oh and I think it's the repeat customers that drive new first timers via positive word of mouth.

You are assuming thousand of first timers had a "meh" experience. We don't know if that is true or not. Meh to you may be great to someone else.

Disney isn't stupid. If they find out the earlier summer closing time is costing them money they will change.

 

[maryj11]

Regarding wait times at the end of the night:

It is standard to inflate the "official" wait time, but this is even more true during the last 60 minutes before closing... particularly on major rides like Space Mountain. When necessary, CMs will even hold the lines so they visually appear to be longer than actual. This is done to discourage too many people from jumping into lines after closing, and the amount of the inflation may vary from night to night depending on judgment calls. If you actually do get in line before closing, you will be allowed to ride as long as the attraction is operating. I realize some people don't like the idea of artificially inflating wait times, but this practice has been in place for decades and is standard across the theme park industry.

That said, I have no reason to doubt the anecdotal accounts of people saying how crowded it has been at 10:00pm.

Yes I have noticed wait times are way more right before closing then what they actually are. Why cant they just put the rope or chain up if they dont want people getting in line.

 

[Jules76126]

Yes I have noticed wait times are way more right before closing then what they actually are. Why cant they just put the rope or chain up if they dont want people getting in line.

When I did my CP, the rule was you had to let anyone who wanted to ride get in line right up till closing. I worked in Epcot and the person out front would literally watching the clock on the phone that was figven to that position and as soon as it clicked to 9:00pm on the dot, they would hurry inside and shut the gate. We could not shut the gate prior to 9 exactly.

 

[Planogirl]

People forgive a lot when it comes to Disney. You see people posting all the time that they hate some change and then they add that they will just have to put up with it. The only question is whether the general public feels that way too.

 

[robl45]

One lesson to learn is that absolutely nothing should be taken as a give for a Disney World trip. Disney states that everything is subject to availability. They change park hours all of the time. I've had them change day of before. We have no way of knowing what hours will be next summer. Disney probably doesn't know.

The problem is when you have to plan your dinners and fast passes in advance, its very difficult to plan out your days if you don't know the correct hours. Right now I'm struggling to even be able to slightly move my dinners to earlier hours to at least get a little time at the MK at night.

 

[robl45]

Yes I have noticed wait times are way more right before closing then what they actually are. Why cant they just put the rope or chain up if they dont want people getting in line.

It depends, Peter pan is usually the stated wait time, I know I"ve been in it at close. And that's at 12am close. Others can be less, but usually thats when the wait is showing 15 minutes or less. Those are usually walk on. Lately I"m looking at the times and at 10:05 after park closing, the waits are still posted as well past 15 minutes on most rides.

We've pretty much already written off next year at Disney, we will see if 2019 makes it worth it to return.

 

[wdwlver]

Here now and just left MK. Crowds heavy 120 at Splash. Left to go relax at pool for awhile. Still shocked and annoyed Park closes at 10.

 

[maxiesmom]

The problem is when you have to plan your dinners and fast passes in advance, its very difficult to plan out your days if you don't know the correct hours. Right now I'm struggling to even be able to slightly move my dinners to earlier hours to at least get a little time at the MK at night.

I don't disagree with you. It doesn't make it easy on us for sure. But wanting it to be different doesn't make it so.

 

[maxiesmom]

Yes I have noticed wait times are way more right before closing then what they actually are. Why cant they just put the rope or chain up if they dont want people getting in line.

People would just go under or around and claim they were already in line. And who would't be ticked to find all of the rides closed 15 minutes or however long before the scheduled park close?

 

[EEEEE]

When I did my CP, the rule was you had to let anyone who wanted to ride get in line right up till closing. I worked in Epcot and the person out front would literally watching the clock on the phone that was figven to that position and as soon as it clicked to 9:00pm on the dot, they would hurry inside and shut the gate. We could not shut the gate prior to 9 exactly.

This is interesting insight. Thank you. Based on this and the reports that exiting at closing time is total chaos I may just jump on 7DMT line at 2 minutes before close and hope that by the time I am done some of the madness has cleared. Thanks again.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Disney isn't stupid. If they find out the earlier summer closing time is costing them money they will change.

I'm sure you're right. Guess those of us going this summer, at the very least, are just out of luck!

 

[robl45]

I'm sure you're right. Guess those of us going this summer, at the very least, are just out of luck!

The change will feed a cycle though because they will have less people going, so they will change, but those people they hope to get back will have made other plans etc. I'm not going next year I'm 90% sure and I'm sure there are plenty of others like me that will take a break until they sort out this nonsense. Next year going to get worse I bet as people waiting for star wars.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

This is interesting insight. Thank you. Based on this and the reports that exiting at closing time is total chaos I may just jump on 7DMT line at 2 minutes before close and hope that by the time I am done some of the madness has cleared. Thanks again.

Just a few data points that I'm collecting for myself to have an idea of POSTED wait times... passing along in case it's useful to you... and of course, this doesn't speak to ACTUAL waits... for that we have reports from folks on here but no official data... and we've heard from some how posted times are apparently inflated near close -- so take with whatever grain of salt one thinks appropriate.

Some MDE wait times for 7DMT in that last hour (9-10pm), since closing has been 10pm... you'll see 2 of these points are from days with EMH -- which doesn't seem to make a difference to how long the wait is from 9 to 10... at least with these few points...

 

[Praying Colonel]

^It's not unusual for Disney to inflate posted wait times to discourage guests from entering standby, especially in the last hour. I've seen RnRC with virtually nobody standing in standby around an hour before closing and a posted wait time of 120 minutes. I asked the CM if it was really 120 minutes and he gave a little grin and said, "Well, maybe not quite that long."

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

^It's not unusual for Disney to inflate posted wait times to discourage guests from entering standby, especially in the last hour. I've seen RnRC with virtually nobody standing in standby around an hour before closing and a posted wait time of 120 minutes. I asked the CM if it was really 120 minutes and he gave a little grin and said, "Well, maybe not quite that long."

True. I think people have discussed that here -- that's assumed. I added a note above to make it completely clear.

ETA: Just FYI, we've also had some accounts here of actual waits being quite close to posted recently in MK since the ridiculous 10pm close.

 

[dlavender]

^It's not unusual for Disney to inflate posted wait times to discourage guests from entering standby, especially in the last hour. I've seen RnRC with virtually nobody standing in standby around an hour before closing and a posted wait time of 120 minutes. I asked the CM if it was really 120 minutes and he gave a little grin and said, "Well, maybe not quite that long."

I get that everyone has a different experience with waits at close, but somehow I've never been that "lucky"

We always stay until the kiss goodnight. We always keep riding as long as they let us in line. In 10 years, I've never witnessed a 120 min posted wait that was actually 5-10 mins.

We normally see 35-45 min posted that turns out being very accurate.

We haven't gone this year, and I'm not saying anyone who has experienced exaggerated wait times is making it up, but for everyone who experiences it, there's people like me on the other side.

 

[Babe the Blue Ox]

I get that everyone has a different experience with waits at close, but somehow I've never been that "lucky"

We always stay until the kiss goodnight. We always keep riding as long as they let us in line. In 10 years, I've never witnessed a 120 min posted wait that was actually 5-10 mins.

We normally see 35-45 min posted that turns out being very accurate.

We haven't gone this year, and I'm not saying anyone who has experienced exaggerated wait times is making it up, but for everyone who experiences it, there's people like me on the other side.

In my experience, the posted wait times in the hour or so before closing are often 4 times the actual wait. For example, TSMM could have a 60 minute posted wait time at 9 pm but we could ride 4 times before they closed at 10. Disney has used a technique called 'Line Stacking" for several years to make the lines appear longer than they really are. This combined with the inflated wait times are used to discourage late night riders. I first read about this in the 2001 Unofficial Guide.

 

[dlavender]

In my experience, the posted wait times in the hour or so before closing are often 4 times the actual wait. For example, TSMM could have a 60 minute posted wait time at 9 pm but we could ride 4 times before they closed at 10. Disney has used a technique called 'Line Stacking" for several years to make the lines appear longer than they really are. This combined with the inflated wait times are used to discourage late night riders. I first read about this in the 2001 Unofficial Guide.

I don't doubt that you experienced that.

But last year PP had a posted wait of 40 mins right before close. We hopped in line, waited 42 minutes to get on....

So I wouldn't take the over inflated theory as absolute gospel to rebuke late night posted waits.

 

[maryj11]

In my experience, the posted wait times in the hour or so before closing are often 4 times the actual wait. For example, TSMM could have a 60 minute posted wait time at 9 pm but we could ride 4 times before they closed at 10. Disney has used a technique called 'Line Stacking" for several years to make the lines appear longer than they really are. This combined with the inflated wait times are used to discourage late night riders. I first read about this in the 2001 Unofficial Guide.

We have had the same thing happen more than once. For example Test Track and Soarin posted around 30 minute wait right before closing were walk on.