Am I the only one?

[RobDoc]

simply put..you are mis informed

Several in this thread have provided exact quotes from DVC documents. Please provide any information supporting your claims.

I can assure you, I am NOT the one who is misinformed. Feel free to support your statements. I know many here who are waiting for any form of documentation to support your statements.

 

[Sammie]

So has Disney ever classified an owner as a 'commercial renter' and if so did they actually take any actions against them?

Yes they have.

 

[RobDoc]

Examples of commercial renting include but are not limited to:

>A Member who maintains a website offering rental of Vacation Points
>A Member who makes 20 or more reservations in any 12 month period in the name of persons not on their membership

so then what would you consider that "Dave" guy who advertises all over these boards is that a business or not..and although i can not be positive i think the original poster was referring to people using a third party to rent their points, i too have had an occasion for one reason or another to rent some xtra pts for a quick get away i see nothing wrong with members renting to friends and family and other members but i stand firm on my opinion of a member using a third party

Of course DVCrequest.com is a business but, to my knowledge, that business is not a DVC member and does not own any DVC points of its own. The restrictions regarding "commercial purpose" apply to DVC members, with no mention of a third party business assisting with member rentals.

Again, any documentation supporting your statements or your opinion would be very welcome should you be able to find anything at all to share.

 

[spiceycat]

this is not really part of this discussion - but on my first trip after buying DVC in 1993 - trip was in Sept I think.

most of the people on the bus were renting from someone else in Ala - meet at least 5 different groups of people who were renting from him. they immediately ask me when I was renting (then the answer was never). Now do rent on occasion. He told them he had never stayed at DVC (now OKW) and had no intention of staying at it. So yes even back then you could rent points and pretty sure the sales people told us so.

 

[myzel]

If I remember correctly, and I am not going to look for my paper work. I believe the wording for rental is, it is allowed to cover dues and costs. So, going under the assumption that there are lots of us owners who may not be using our points and want to rent them out to cover costs, then David's is just a broker as the OP noted. Are there people buying resale for rental for income purposes, most likely but with so many owners now wanting the same week or day as others well "book early and book often".

 

[johnsbelt]

simply put..you are mis informed

This, from someone who has a grand total of 4 posts.

John

 

[Dean]

If I remember correctly, and I am not going to look for my paper work. I believe the wording for rental is, it is allowed to cover dues and costs. So, going under the assumption that there are lots of us owners who may not be using our points and want to rent them out to cover costs, then David's is just a broker as the OP noted. Are there people buying resale for rental for income purposes, most likely but with so many owners now wanting the same week or day as others well "book early and book often".

You may want to look for it because I'm 100% certain that there is no reference to rental price or related issues in the legal paperwork. This is a somewhat common misperception often cited on BBS related to DVC. Some mistakenly extrapolate the "commercial" issue adding their own views along this line. IMO, often by those who don't agree with rentals and would just as soon do away with the options which, of course, is not legally possible in this situation.

 

[Sur]

Can you imagine if David's owned? People could have all sorts of options available to them! It'd just be a juggling act instead of counting on owners offering up points.

Yeah, I can see why that'd be a problem.

 

[mjc2003]

Yes they have.

When? Who?

 

[BEASLYBOO]

Question based on this rule: A Member who makes 20 or more reservations in any 12 month period in the name of persons not on their membership

So let's say I have 1000 points that I contract with a certain company who brokers points, do those reservations when rented/sold/transferred (?) then show up as activity on my account or when we contract those points get transferred to the brokerage company's account, and then the activity is reflected there, yet because they are not an "individual" owner, the rule does not apply?

Because it is highly likely that my 1000 points could be split up into multi transactions, possibly at some point reaching or going over 20!

As far as the original post, in 12 years I've been a member of DVC I've never had an issue getting the resort, the accommodations nor the dates I've wanted! I've even booked short notice a few times and been surprised.

Sorry if the glow of ownership has worn off for you, you could always sell, or take a break and rent out your points for a few years!

 

[DougEMG]

Yes they have.

Any idea of what they did ?

 

[myzel]

You may want to look for it because I'm 100% certain that there is no reference to rental price or related issues in the legal paperwork. This is a somewhat common misperception often cited on BBS related to DVC. Some mistakenly extrapolate the "commercial" issue adding their own views along this line. IMO, often by those who don't agree with rentals and would just as soon do away with the options which, of course, is not legally possible in this situation.

First, I gave no impression of "price". I said to cover costs, mine may be different from yours due to where and how many points. So no I won't bother to look it up.

Second, I made no reference to "commercial" and did not knock rentals.

I have used rentals for transfers myself.

 

[RobDoc]

If I remember correctly, and I am not going to look for my paper work. I believe the wording for rental is, it is allowed to cover dues and costs. ...

Please do look it up, as I'm also 100% positive there is no reference to rentals being allowed to only "cover dues and costs", price or any other similar language. If you can find support for your recollection it will be a one-of-kind document and of great interest to thousands of other DVC Members.

The exact phrasing in the DVC documents has already been quoted in this thread and there is no reference related to how a rental is to be conducted except as related to having a contract and what is assumed even if there is no contract - but no reference regarding any limitation on what a rental charge may cover.

 

[Sammie]

Any idea of what they did ?

Yes I do, but due to the confidential nature of this, I am not at liberty to share. Dean pretty much covered it previously.

 

[CarolMN]

Question based on this rule: A Member who makes 20 or more reservations in any 12 month period in the name of persons not on their membership

So let's say I have 1000 points that I contract with a certain company who brokers points, do those reservations when rented/sold/transferred (?) then show up as activity on my account or when we contract those points get transferred to the brokerage company's account, and then the activity is reflected there, yet because they are not an "individual" owner, the rule does not apply?.......(snip)...

The point brokers put owners and renters together. Some of them also provide escrow services. The owner of the points makes the actual reservations. So if you made more than 20 reservations with your 1000 points as a result of using a broker's service, it could trigger an audit by DVC. They may or may not decide you are a commercial renter.

Since the brokers are not the members, IMO, DVC has no recourse against them (unless they are using copyrighted images on their websites or something like that).

FWIW, I do not see how DVC can prohibit owners from using third parties to find prospective renters. Or how DVC can prohibit the general public from using brokers to find them a timeshare to rent.

 

[myzel]

Please do look it up, as I'm also 100% positive there is no reference to rentals being allowed to only "cover dues and costs", price or any other similar language. If you can find support for your recollection it will be a one-of-kind document and of great interest to thousands of other DVC Members.

The exact phrasing in the DVC documents has already been quoted in this thread and there is no reference related to how a rental is to be conducted except as related to having a contract and what is assumed even if there is no contract - but no reference regarding any limitation on what a rental charge may cover.

I will apologize, because I read the fine print and there is no provision for renting, obviously something misremembered. However rereading the fine print every few years is a good thing, did you know that DVD or BVTC do not require you to have a contract with the person who uses your reservation. The DVC member is the one who is responsible for what the "renter" does. Go figure.

 

[Dean]

I will apologize, because I read the fine print and there is no provision for renting, obviously something misremembered. However rereading the fine print every few years is a good thing, did you know that DVD or BVTC do not require you to have a contract with the person who uses your reservation. The DVC member is the one who is responsible for what the "renter" does. Go figure.

Class post, thanks. And yes, it is hard to keep what you think, read other places and the legal paperwork separate at times, we all fall into that trap at times.

 

[Dean]

The point brokers put owners and renters together. Some of them also provide escrow services. The owner of the points makes the actual reservations. So if you made more than 20 reservations with your 1000 points as a result of using a broker's service, it could trigger an audit by DVC. They may or may not decide you are a commercial renter.

Since the brokers are not the members, IMO, DVC has no recourse against them (unless they are using copyrighted images on their websites or something like that).

FWIW, I do not see how DVC can prohibit owners from using third parties to find prospective renters. Or how DVC can prohibit the general public from using brokers to find them a timeshare to rent.

If the broker is a member, they would have recourse. They also have collateral options related to pictures and copyrights. They could also manipulate associate rules. Plus, as I said earlier, it makes it very difficult to act on others with this going on.

 

[RobDoc]

I will apologize, because I read the fine print and there is no provision for renting, obviously something misremembered. However rereading the fine print every few years is a good thing, did you know that DVD or BVTC do not require you to have a contract with the person who uses your reservation. The DVC member is the one who is responsible for what the "renter" does. Go figure.

Thank you for the apology.

I agree that reading the fine print is a good habit to get into. IMO, far too many DVC owners have never read the documents and have no true concept of what they have already agreed to along with their purchase.

Regarding the DVC Member being responsible for the renter's (or guests or his own) actions (as already quoted in this thread):
Exhibit "I" to Declaration of Condominium, Section IV. RENTALS, part 4.1 Club Member Rentals

"A Club Member may make a reservation to use the accommodations of the Condominium or other DVC Resorts, if any, himself, make their use available to family or friends or guests, or rent them solely through his own efforts. DVD's approval of a rental by a Club Member is not required after a reservation has been made in the renter's own name, and Club Members are permitted to rent their occupancy rights on terms and conditions that they may establish. No rental assistance is being offered by DVD or DVC or any affiliate or subsidiary of DVD and DVC. All renters must comply with the rules and regulations affecting occupancy, and the renting Club Member will be responsible for the acts or omissions of his renters or any other person or persons permitted by the Club Member to use the accommodation. Neither DVD nor DVC in any way represent or promote that a particular DVC Resort accommodation can be rented, or if it is rented, that any particular rental rate can be obtained for such rental."

Regarding the requirement by DVD/DVC to have a written contract:

Exhibit "F" to the Master Deed, condominium Rules and Regulations, Section 5. Leasing of Vacation Homes
" All of the terms and provisions of the Condominium Documents and these Condominium Rules and regulations pertaining to use and occupancy shall be applicable and enforceable against any person occupying a Vacation Home as a tenant to the same extent as against an owner. Any lease or rental agreement, whether oral or written and whether specifically expressed in such agreement or not, shall be deemed to contain a covenant upon the part of each such tenant designating the Association as the Owner's agent for the purpose of and with the authority to terminate any such lease or rental agreement in the event of violations by the tenant of the terms and provisions of the Condominium Documents or Condominium Rules and Regulations. All leasing or rental agreements relating to the use, occupancy and possession of any Vacation Home must be in writing and must set forth an acknowledgement and consent on the part of the lessee-sublessee-tenant to use, occupy and possess such Vacation Home in conformance and compliance with the provisions of the Condominium Documents and these Condominium Rules and regulations. In the event an owner fails to secure a written leasing or rental agreement, the Association reserves the right to request the lessee-sublessee-tenant to execute an acknowledgement to use and occupy the rented or leased Vacation Home in conformance and compliance with the Condominium Documents and these Condominium Rules and Regulations."

Perhaps there is a clause in some document where it expressly states that a written document is not required, but at least in this quoted DVC Document, it does clearly specify that a written rental agreement is required for all rentals or leases and also holds the renter to the same terms in the event the member has failed to provide such a document.

 

[Lynne M]

Just out of curiosity....how do other timeshares handle this? Is renting generally permitted?

I've never owned any other timeshare, so I'm clueless.....I always assumed that renting was a typical timeshare thing.