Am I being unreasonable?

[robinb]

Question: Why no bread products during Passover?

When Pharaoh finally allowed the Moses and Jews to leave Egypt the morning after the Angel of Death killed the first born of any family who did not have lamb's blood on the door (telling the angel to "pass over" the house) there was no time to allow the bread to rise. So, only unleavened bread was taken on the Exodus.

The OP's family can still have sandwiches on matzoh which is a kind of a large tasteless cracker. There are also "pastas" which are made of potato starch, but I can't say how they taste (but I can guess ). There are ways to work around both diets.

 

[MELSMICE]

When Pharaoh finally allowed the Moses and Jews to leave Egypt the morning after the Angel of Death killed the first born of any family who did not have lamb's blood on the door (telling the angel to "pass over" the house) there was no time to allow the bread to rise. So, only unleavened bread was taken on the Exodus.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[RachelEllen]

wow, I'm amazed by all the responses. I'll add a few things in case anyone is interested.

My husband is vegetarian for moral reasons. Obviously some people disagree, but, to me restricting foods generally falls into three categories: health/allergic reasons, moral reasons, and taste preferences. And I think they trump each other in that order. I think it's strange to make distinctions between moral reasons because some are 'religious.'

It's also, while possible, not a trivial thing to do a vegetarian, pesadichl meal. Not a matter of 'not eating a sanwich.' as someone said. We are talking no bread, grain, pasta, rice, or beans. Again, it is possible, but it is not simple. /especially/ as the people asking us to do this are not going to be doing it themselves. We have not asked them to forgo meat in the house, and they are not planning to.

And I guess that is what was so bothersome about this. We approached our dietery restriction as our choice. My husband doesn't like to be around people eating meat, but he desks with it without complaint. We already felt like we were compromising as we knew all communal meals would not be geared to our restrictions, but we were willing to deal with it and never made an issue. So, to be hit with, you /will/ adhere to our restrictions was ofputting.

(FYI, we Dont eat fish and soy is not allowed on Passover.

 

[Wishing on a star]

OP,

It sounds like YOU would try to oblige...
But, your husband does not wish to oblige.

It sounds like your husband is the real sticking point.
It sounds like your husband is the one who is not wanting to work anything out...

If that is true... then... That just shows that he (as well as your brother and SIL) are showing NO respect for you...

If this is the case, then he is putting YOU in the middle...
He is asking YOU to forego this vacation with your family... and without a compelling reason... Only his preferences...

I have read enough here to make my very specific suggestion...

Tell your husband that you ARE going the vacation... It is your family... you wish to go with them... There is no compelling reason ( i.e. financial.. work obligations, the kids school obligations, etc... ) that you should NOT go.

Tell him that you will be going...

Tell him that you will be very happy for him and his son to take off during the week and do things to spend time together...

Tell him that you will be very happy to leave a couple of days early to avoid the whole religious/foods issue. (Or simply go out on your own, and eat at restaurants on those days...)

Tell him that you are compromising here, but that you will be going...

Seriously, at this point I would consider, taking the kids for the first 5 days, and leave him behind if he is actually being that obstinate.

Clearly, there are issues here that are bigger than the dietary restrictions... It sounds like even if SIL were to bend about making the entire vacation home Kosher, the OP's husband still does not really want to go... I am not sure that if the SIL were to bend, that this would change the OP's husband's mind.

PS: To everybody here...

It is NOT that easy to have a nutritious and satisfiying diet that is both kosher and vegan... This is NOT a 'small deal'...

It is also NOT okay for anyone to enforce their religious observances on others... Just because 'grandma' in the example above might go to mass while on vacation.. while on vacation with extended friends and family it would NOT be okay for her to expect everyone else to go to mass with her.. or to give up one of their vacations days, sitting around waiting on her to complete her religious observances...

The bottom line... The SIL is in the wrong.... and It sounds like the OP's husband is in the wrong... And they are both putting her in a position that really really sucks...

OP: I hope that you can speak with your husband and get this all worked out....

 

[MaleficentFan]

Oh, one other clarification. I said "no bread" But what was relayed to me was that SIL wants the house kosher for Passover. Normally, that means no bread, grains, yeast, corn, or rice. I do completely defend her right to pick and choose the parts of Judaism to which she wants to adhere. Their family doesn't keep Kosher. But I don't think that makes their Passover observation any less valid.

I'm confused... the family doesn't keep kosher but SIL is requesting that the vacation home be kept kosher? Why now?

 

[clgwli]

I still think their issue is bigger than yours. Moral reasons are the same. Your morals do not require that meat is kept out of the house. Theirs do during this time.

If you can't agree to it for two days I suggest you simply do not go. I am sorry but you are coming across as being a bit selfish. If you said no meat in your house and you make it that way always for everyone. Then yes it would be equal.

Yes it will be hard but passover is a special and sacred time. Either work with them or don't go.

 

[RachelEllen]

Sorry, this is a confusing termonology issue.

Just "kosher" means following the daily Jewish dietary laws: no pork, no milk with meat, no shellfish, etc. Jews follow these to various degrees. Within my own family there are people like me who don't follow any of them, people like my aunt who follows them in her house only, people like one of my cousins who follows them to the extent she can "see" violations, and people like another cousin who won't go out to eat as things have to be prepared in a kosher kitchen.

"Kosher for Passover" is a shorthand way of saying following the specific dietary laws for Passover. Again, these can vary depending on the type of Judiasm you follow and your degree of strictness. Some people give up bread, yeast and legumes, some people give up rice and corn as well. Some people will eat out, and some will take care not to come into contact with anything that hasn't been purified.

hope this helps.

 

[robinb]

wow, I'm amazed by all the responses. I'll add a few things in case anyone is interested.

My husband is vegetarian for moral reasons. Obviously some people disagree, but, to me restricting foods generally falls into three categories: health/allergic reasons, moral reasons, and taste preferences. And I think they trump each other in that order. I think it's strange to make distinctions between moral reasons because some are 'religious.'

It's also, while possible, not a trivial thing to do a vegetarian, pesadichl meal. Not a matter of 'not eating a sanwich.' as someone said. We are talking no bread, grain, pasta, rice, or beans. Again, it is possible, but it is not simple. /especially/ as the people asking us to do this are not going to be doing it themselves. We have not asked them to forgo meat in the house, and they are not planning to.

And I guess that is what was so bothersome about this. We approached our dietery restriction as our choice. My husband doesn't like to be around people eating meat, but he desks with it without complaint. We already felt like we were compromising as we knew all communal meals would not be geared to our restrictions, but we were willing to deal with it and never made an issue. So, to be hit with, you /will/ adhere to our restrictions was ofputting.

(FYI, we Dont eat fish and soy is not allowed on Passover.

My DD is a vegetarian and we usually do a seder. I make sure that there is enough for her to eat while we enjoy our lamb chops. You don't have to make the whole thing vegetarian, just enough to feed your family.

Here are some recipes:
PETA's list of vegetarian Passover dishes:
http://www.peta.org/feat/passover/PassoverRecipes.html

About.com's list of links:
http://kosherfood.about.com/od/passovervegetarianmains/Passover_Vegetarian_Mains.htm

Epicurious.com's vegetarian Passover menu:
http://www.epicurious.com/tools/searchresults?search=vegetarian+passover+meal

I do find it rather odd that DH thinks that he is already compromising by not raising a stink over people eating meat in front of him. I know many vegetarians and none of them ever made a stink about me eating meat. One friend who went as far as to never wear leather made double-dog sure that his meal was not cross-contaminated by meat-touching utensils but that was probably the closest.

I see that you are newly-weds (since March) so I can see where your DH might feel like his values are not being considered by your family. Maybe you should look at this as an opportunity. You say that the other 5 days are not "geared" to your dietary restrictions. Perhaps you can arrange a couple of tasty meatless meals earlier in the week in exchange for going along with the first two days of Passover. This would work if you divvy up the cooking for the house and you could cook meat-eater friendly meals like lasagna or red beans and rice. That might make your DH feel like he is being valued in the family too.

There is no reason for you to be the only one to make the comprises. BUT ... you will have to make compromises here for family harmony and the sooner that you face it the sooner you will be able to shape things to be less painful for you and your family. Your brother and his family didn't pick the dates any more than you did and they are also stuck in an uncomfortable situation. I am sure that making a rental house kosher for Passover in addition to their house at home is not their idea of having fun.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Yep, everyone must make compromises...

The issue seems to be that the OP's husband will not compromise...

It is clear that there are compromises that can be made... leaving two days early... eating out... etc... But, I have not seen these being considered by the OP. And, I am assuming that this is because her husband has already decided that he does not want to go... no matter what.

OP: If your husband cannot go on this vacation for five of those days, so that you and his children can enjoy spending time with their mother/grandmother-aunts-uncles-cousins... Then THAT is your biggest issue. Everything else pales in comparison.

 

[OceanAnnie]

wow, I'm amazed by all the responses. I'll add a few things in case anyone is interested.

My husband is vegetarian for moral reasons. Obviously some people disagree, but, to me restricting foods generally falls into three categories: health/allergic reasons, moral reasons, and taste preferences. And I think they trump each other in that order. I think it's strange to make distinctions between moral reasons because some are 'religious.'

It's also, while possible, not a trivial thing to do a vegetarian, pesadichl meal. Not a matter of 'not eating a sanwich.' as someone said. We are talking no bread, grain, pasta, rice, or beans. Again, it is possible, but it is not simple. /especially/ as the people asking us to do this are not going to be doing it themselves. We have not asked them to forgo meat in the house, and they are not planning to.

And I guess that is what was so bothersome about this. We approached our dietery restriction as our choice. My husband doesn't like to be around people eating meat, but he desks with it without complaint. We already felt like we were compromising as we knew all communal meals would not be geared to our restrictions, but we were willing to deal with it and never made an issue. So, to be hit with, you /will/ adhere to our restrictions was ofputting.

(FYI, we Dont eat fish and soy is not allowed on Passover.

I thought that from the beginning! I think it's good that you want it to work, but still, you guys are swallowing a big dose of reality. There is time to find some sort of workable solution. Well, you did say your SIL (although you love her to bits) has a strong personality. That says alot. Hope her strong personality stays confined to the kitchen thing. I do hope it all works out for you.

 

[shortbun]

I'm confused... the family doesn't keep kosher but SIL is requesting that the vacation home be kept kosher? Why now?

It is not unusual for a Jewish family to keep Kosher JUST for the High Holy Days. In fact, it's pretty common. I'd be interested in knowing if the OP knew they did this on other years. Is this the first she's known they kosher their home for the holidays? Seriously, I'm not Jewish, I'm a nice little shiksa girl but I know about it. If I were going on this vacation, I'd just work it out and allow the SIL and her part of the family to do what they needed to do. I might keep a stash of things in my room. Is the SIL going to scrub the kitchen down? This is required. My friends have a whole set of other dishes and so forth. Is there no one Jewish on this thread who kosher's their kitchen for the Holy Days? I assumed my friends were normal. he he

Oh and, my son is a vegetarian. My best friend is a vegan. Neither one of them EVER worries about what other people are doing or eating. My girlfriend even fixes meat for her children.

 

[RachelEllen]

Whoops, double post

 

[Camicar]

We already felt like we were compromising as we knew all communal meals would not be geared to our restrictions, but we were willing to deal with it and never made an issue. So, to be hit with, you /will/ adhere to our restrictions was ofputting.

Ah. I get it. Your SIL is saying that her religious food issues TRUMP your dh's moral food issues.

Well, this isn't a game of bridge where a team wins and a team loses. It's a family vacation and compromise is in order. If your SIL is not willing to compromise, then I would suggest not going.

Sigh. I just can't stand it when eating becomes such a hassle.

 

[RachelEllen]

It is not unusual for a Jewish family to keep Kosher JUST for the High Holy Days. In fact, it's pretty common. I'd be interested in knowing if the OP knew they did this on other years. Is this the first she's known they kosher their home for the holidays? Seriously, I'm not Jewish, I'm a nice little shiksa girl but I know about it. If I were going on this vacation, I'd just work it out and allow the SIL and her part of the family to do what they needed to do. I might keep a stash of things in my room. Is the SIL going to scrub the kitchen down? This is required. My friends have a whole set of other dishes and so forth. Is there no one Jewish on this thread who kosher's their kitchen for the Holy Days? I assumed my friends were normal. he he

Oh and, my son is a vegetarian. My best friend is a vegan. Neither one of them EVER worries about what other people are doing or eating. My girlfriend even fixes meat for her children.

Yes, we knew their diet is Kosher for Passover. I do not know if they actually remove all bread products from their home or just don't eat them. (We did the latter growing up.) We just assumed (wrongly!) that they would not insist that a communal vacation home be kept Kosher for Passover.

 

[frndshpcptn]

I am Jewish, and keep Kosher for Passover.

If I am traveling during the holiday, I still keep Kosher for Passover as best I can. While I don't keep kosher year round, i do make every effort to adhere to the dietary restrictions for this holiday.

If I were renting a beach house with family (and my family knew I was Kosher for Passover), I would hope they would respect that and help me continue with that tradition even away from my home.

You an substitute Maztah for bread for 2 days (matzah pizza, mtzah brei, cheese melted on matzah, PB and J on matzah).

And if I had friends who felt strongly about no meat, and asked me to have a meatless vacation, I'd do that for them as well.

Have you asked if they would be willing to have a meatless vacation?

 

[IloveDMB]

I mean it exactly as I wright it.
Enforcing your personal belief ore rules on another family is ridiculous.

Again if you give in now this will be the way she will enforce the rules to the whole family year after year.

And I don't care if its the Jewish,Catholic,Mormon ore Muslim religion.

Religion is something you practice at home ore with your other brothers in the same belief but should stay at home when you go on a vacation with others.

Its not done to force another family to live by the rules of my belief not even for an hour.

Seriously? My religion is something I take with me wherever I go. I don't check it at the door on my way out. I'm not Jewish when I walk through my door at night, I'm Jewish all day.

And I think it's insulting for you to say someone's religion should only be practiced in the confines of their own home. One of the great things about this country is that we have the right to practice our religions, whenever and wherever we want.

And please, give me an example of how the sister might "force" her religion on them year after year?

 

[disneymyway]

wow, I'm amazed by all the responses. I'll add a few things in case anyone is interested.

My husband is vegetarian for moral reasons. Obviously some people disagree, but, to me restricting foods generally falls into three categories: health/allergic reasons, moral reasons, and taste preferences. And I think they trump each other in that order. I think it's strange to make distinctions between moral reasons because some are 'religious.'

It's also, while possible, not a trivial thing to do a vegetarian, pesadichl meal. Not a matter of 'not eating a sanwich.' as someone said. We are talking no bread, grain, pasta, rice, or beans. Again, it is possible, but it is not simple. /especially/ as the people asking us to do this are not going to be doing it themselves. We have not asked them to forgo meat in the house, and they are not planning to.

And I guess that is what was so bothersome about this. We approached our dietery restriction as our choice. My husband doesn't like to be around people eating meat, but he desks with it without complaint. We already felt like we were compromising as we knew all communal meals would not be geared to our restrictions, but we were willing to deal with it and never made an issue. So, to be hit with, you /will/ adhere to our restrictions was ofputting.

(FYI, we Dont eat fish and soy is not allowed on Passover.

You seem like a reasonable person and I think you are just going to have to "take one for the team" in this case.

I think I know what you are feeling. You feel that you are being open minded and the other family is not and it bugs you. It would bug me too. If you can figure out any way at all to make this work I would do it, though, because it's just not worth the risk of causing hard feelings.

Nobody respects us vegetarians, lol, and that's just the way it is. So many people think if we ate a little meat once in awhile "it wouldn't kill us" (or so people like to tell me).

I know that it isn't a question of having meat in the house because you've said it won't bother you and it never bothers me either. I'm around meat all the time. But what does bother me is people that think that vegetarianism is no big deal. To me I'm no different than someone who does not eat pork or shellfish for religious reasons. No different. If people just understood and respected that I'd be happier.

 

[challer]

And marshmallows absolutely always contain corn syrup. So if corn is not kosher for Passover, marshmallows will never be.

Absolutely wrong. There are certified kosher for passover marshmallows that are 100% corn syrup free. They happen to taste pretty lousy.

 

[eliza61]

Just wanted some opinions on our family drama. (Perhaps it is a bit of a vent as well.)

We are planning a family vacation with my brother's family and my mom. The plan is rent a beach house for a week. My husband is a vegetarian, and we keep a vegetarian household. The last two days of the vacation fall during Passover.

Now, we are not that religious and don't keep Passover. However, my sister-in-law has said that her family keeps Passover and that she wants us to keep the house bread free during the last two days. I don't feel like this is reasonable, as we are not insisting that the meals and house be meat free! Plus, it makes it hard for us to eat meals that do not include meat or bread items. (For those who don't know, pasta would not be allowed either.)

I don't want to spoil the vacation of this, but my husband is rather annoyed and thinking of just nixing the whole thing.

DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER
Op, you're not even on vacation and already you guys are stressed. This is you're warning to get out now.

I would very polity tell her that we would rent our own beach house.

 

[challer]

There is so much I can say here, but won't. But what I will offer is the following:

There are frequently resort hotels around Orlando that turn over either partially or completely into kosher for Passover (ie K4P) resorts, with meals (including Seders) and services. This may be a really nice option for the folks who want the Passover experience. If they are just going "no bread" on passover, and not the whole strict K4P, i may be able to assume that they will be driving/taking transportation on that day? If so, instead of moving to the hotel for 2 days, they may be able to arrange meals at these places. Not only will they have a completely K4P meal, but it might be a more meaningful experience sharing meals with other Jews observing the holiday together.

I know the Hilton has done it in the past, but here are places I found that may be of interest:

http://www.passovertravel.com/orlando/
http://www.matzafun.com/disney_passoverprogram.asp
http://www.jewishorlando.com/templates/articlecco_cdo/aid/254039/jewish/Pesach-Kosher-Villas.htm

Hope this helps!