Almost 4 won't potty train!

[crl]

My almost 4 year old son (4 in Jan) will not potty train and it's driving us all nuts. I always said I'd never let it get this far, but I seem powerless to stop it. Here's our story:

My son had constipation problems starting at his 2nd birthday. Which is normally when we would have started potty training. After a few months of trial and error, the doctor finally prescribed Mira-lax for him. We were also told that we should not try to potty train him until things had settled down and were regular again. Let's just say, that took till he was almost 3 before we could begin to wean him off the Mira-lax. So last spring we started the potty training with setting a timer and going every hour. For awhile, it was working that way. But if we forgot to set the timer or tried to encourage him to tell us, he would be wet. The farther we got into this, the more he protested and started not being dry when the timer went off. So we backed off since this was obviously something he was using as a power struggle. Since the beginning of October we have been trying to do this again. At first, he would go with the timer routine until he earned his prize, then he would relapse into the being wet before the timer went off for a day or so till he wanted another prize. Now, he has a prize in mind, but still refuses to use the potty. And we know he has the ability to stay dry for a few hours at a time (he has proved that). He's even had many nights when he's dry in the morning (though I understand that may take more time).

We are desperate and are willing to try just about anything to get this kid using the potty since I'm tired of cleaning up a wet kid and wet floor or changing the pull ups. Even DH has tried with no success and gave up.

Just for reference, my DD was fully trained at 20 months by letting her have a naked day then followed up with a timer for a few days just to be sure we both remembered. So this struggle and using other techniques are foreign to us. Please help this desperate mom!

 

[brergnat]

Sounds JUST like my son! He will be 4 in March. He has been trained #1 since about June. However, he would NOT #2 in the potty. I tried it all. He is a VERY stubborn, controlling, defiant, and manipulative child. He also has a severe speech/language delay, which is a lot of the reason for his personality.

Well, I am happy to report that approx 3 weeks ago, HE decided that #2 goes in the toilet...ALL on his own. We had no input on it. It was like snapping my fingers, it happened that fast. The first day he spontaneously sat down and went #2 by himself, I HID ALL THE PULL-UPS (in my closet), and put him in a pair of underwear. You would not believe the celebration me and DH had for him. Clapping, singing, dancing...we made him feel like he was a KING. He loved it. We originally rewarded him 2 Oreo cookies (a REAL treat for him) when he would go #2. We did that for about 4 days, then just stopped altogether. Ever since that day, 3 weeks ago, there has been NO accidents, no asking for a pull up, and no turning back!

I really thought the day would never come. I was prepared to send him to Kindergarten in 2 years in pull ups (there actually is a child in my son's K class who is still in pull ups, so it DOES happen!). I figured out a long time ago that my son will do things on HIS time, and on HIS terms. Otherwise, no go. He's very strong willed. The other problem we have with him is his EXTREME limited diet. Going on 2 years now of eating only chicken nuggets/breaded chicken strips, fruit, yogurt, and pancakes. Again, we have realized that no matter what we do, he will simply NOT eat anything else, and I'm going to let it be his decision when he decides to branch out and eat new things (he USED to eat whatever we would give him, until he turned 2...then he became ULTRA picky).

So, for us, it's one battle down, one to go. I suggest you just back ALL the way off. Keep modeling for him (I know it's gross, but let him in the bathroom when YOU are in there, etc). I think a big driving force for my son was wanting to be like the rest of us. Eventually, he got over his fears/issues and just took the plunge. And, like your son, ours also suffered from constipation issues, which we have had NONE of since he has started using the toilet. He seems to WANT to go everyday, mostly for the praise he gets for being such a "big boy". We haven't needed to use prune juice, miralax, or babylax in over a month!

Good luck to you! I know how frustrating it can be. I'd stick with Pull Ups FULL TIME until he decides he is ready. No sense in doing the clean up all the time. For a lot of kids, constantly having accidents leads to confidence issues, and more anxiety.

 

[Schmeck]

Well, since he figured out the prize-bribe, that won't work anymore. I'd just stick with keeping him in regular underwear, limiting fluids to certain times of the day (only with meals) and plunking him on the potty about a half hour after he eats. I'd also have him checked by his pediatrician to make sure he doesn't have any underlying issues (infection, etc) that he has no control of.

I know boys are usually harder to potty train than girls, but he should understand the concept by now. I'd start using the potty-training as an incentive to get his usual entertainment during the day - "after you use the potty you can watch tv/play game because Mommy doesn't want to clean pee up again."

 

[fireflymedic]

usually kids that age want to be considered a "big kid". It would be mean but maybe you can have the other child do something but he cant because he wares a diaper and is not a big kid.

I live in the boon docks and would let mine go outside thats a big winner with boys. but if our in town this is problay not an option.

 

[LuvBaloo]

If he's capable of staying dry but choosing not too, then I'd take away the pullups, and when he's wet, he can take his own clothes off and put dry ones on. At 4 he should be capable of that, and he's not getting special attention from you, he's just dealing with the natural consequence of being wet.

Like a PP said, if there's something that he wants to do that is more of a big-boy thing, don't let him do it while he's in pullups.

 

[sunnyday123]

With his issues, do you think he's afraid to go #2? Dd was, until I introduced ( DON'T LAUGH!) "rocket-poop medicine". It was guarranteed to shoot out, well, like a rocket. Every time. Once a day, it was a Scooby vitamin. The rest of the day it was a sweet tart.

If he's not scared, he's just playing you. I'd tell him no pull-ups until night time.

 

[puffkin]

An almost 4 year old is perfectly capable of understanding what is going on with potty training. It amazes me that people don't realize how smart these kids are!

Just a few suggestions:
1. Have you tried a potty ring? Some kids feel really insecure on the big potty and he may be too big now for the potty chairs. I loved my Baby Bjorn potty ring....a bit pricey but so sturdy and DS could put it on/off at 2 with no issues.
2. When he has an accident, do not react. Hand him some clothes and make him clean himself/the area up. Obviously help him if it is really bad and follow behind him to make sure it is cleaned up properly. But don't give a reaction. Just matter of fact hand him dry clothes and have him clean it up. My sons daycare does this from the time they turn 3.
3. I would continue with just underwear at this point and no prizes. He already figured that one out. It seems like a bit of a control issue now.

Good luck

 

[brymolmom]

IMO at this point you just have to wait it out. I agree with pp and do not react (VERY tough to do).

Sounds like you couldn't do this - but my opinion is that in order to 'train' you need to do it young - like in the 22 - 28 month range. If you wait longer than that it usually comes down to the child deciding to do it on his/her own. They know a lot more....they know about control....and it can be a wrestling match each and every time.

My best advice would be to just make it more attractive for him to do it 'on his own'....Have him clean up the messes....Tell him 'we can't go out for pizza like we usually would until we know there won't be accidents' or similar. Other than that type of thing - keep quiet about the whole thing and just let him do what he will do.

 

[jagafen]

2. When he has an accident, do not react. Hand him some clothes and make him clean himself/the area up. Obviously help him if it is really bad and follow behind him to make sure it is cleaned up properly. But don't give a reaction. Just matter of fact hand him dry clothes and have him clean it up. My sons daycare does this from the time they turn

Good luck

Here's my first thought:

Have his doc check him to make sure there isn't anything wrong with him...without sounding gross, are you sure his sphincter tone has returned to normal (there are 2 of them-the internal one and the external one, which we're familiar with) That's the only thing I can think of with his history...sometimes, if little ones are on laxatives too long, they "lose" the ability to tell when they have to go...something about the nerve connections to the muscles/sphincters that tell the brain "when to go"...if the sphincters aren't being "stretched" by the poo, they kiddo doesn't know how to tell when he has to go...he just goes when he's "full" (it's really hard to put the terminology delicately!!) but it's been a while since my anatomy calsses!!



DS was the exact same way (without the consitpation issues). He potty trained 6 weeks before his 4th birthday. He was fine with #1, but was too busy to stop what he was doing to go #2 in the toilet. It might sound mean, but I made him clean his poopy underwear. He'd put the mess in the toilet, and then I'd fill a bucket with water, and he'd have to "scrub" them to clean them. Granted, he didn't get them clean, and I didn't insist on him getting them clean. But it made him understand that poo was icky, and if he didn't want to touch it, he should put it in the potty. Difficult lesson learned rather quickly, I might add. I think he had a total of 2 accidents once he realized mommy wouldn't be cleaning his unders anymore.

With DS, it was completely a laziness issue....I'm not saying that that's what's going on with your son. This is just what worked for us, but I'd request an appoinment with a specialist 'just in case' there was a medical issue your regular ped was missing before you resort to more of a tough love approach.

 

[cerberus]

I had the same problem with DD, I tried EVERYTHING that someone mentioned to do and she wanted no part of going in th potty. I kept up with the rewards and we put another sticker into a puzzle each time she would use the potty. Finally it was like a light switch went off and all was well. Now my almost 3yo has NO INTEREST in using the potty, does not care if she is wet or dirty and just pees on the floor if you let her be naked...I am totally not stressing about it and figure she will do it once she gets a mind to!

 

[crysplefty]

I would definitely make him wear big boy underwear and have him clean himself up. You could try staying at home for the next few days and making him go bare bottom. That was the only way to get my DS potty trained. I also wouldn't give him a prize anymore, since he is taking advantage of it now.

 

[crl]

Thanks for the thoughts.
As far as can he control it, I really don't know. I'm not worried about #2 since I know that he can still have lingering issues from the Mira-lax. Basically it's just peeing on the toilet which I assume he has control over.

 

[MickQuinn]

Since the doctor has checked for underlying medical reasons, I'd say he is probably manipulating the situation.

My husband and I both believe in natural consequences for ds. When he was 2 and old enough to control, the natural consequence of not going on the potty was having to sit in a wet uncomfortable mess. We even put plastic on the couch and on the chair he used at the table. We put a clean set of clothes, wipes, etc... in the bathroom and expected him to take care of the problem. We would of course check to make sure he was clean. It seems harsh (and kinda gross I admit) but the whole process was over in 6 days. My brothers begged us to help train our nieces and nephews. One long weekend was all it took for the little ones to "get it" and no relapses.

 

[kimmylaj]

as a preschool teacher and a mom i will give you my favorite advice, nobody goes to college in a pull up. he'll get it. but seriously i would get rid of the pullups they make life too easy and make him wear underwear and change himself when soiled. he will catch on . one of my very best friends had her son change himself 14 times in one day. needless to say he caught on pretty quick. my ds was a dream potty trained day and night in 1 week. my dd is another story, but she eventually caught on too. so as hard as it is try not to stress

 

[Luv Bunnies]

I work with special needs kids and some have been very difficult to potty train. Here's what we recommend to parents of 4 year olds who still aren't trained:

If your son is 4, he should be fully capable of being trained. He probably senses how important it is to you that he use the toilet and he's using it as a control issue. The key is to make it difficult and uncomfortable for him to wet his pants. If he goes to daycare or preschool, choose a stretch of time when he'll be home with you (like a long weekend or holiday break).

Take away the Pull-ups and use only underwear. Don't take his clothes off to train. He needs to learn how to function in clothing and make toileting part of his daily routine. Don't set a timer to go off when he needs to use the toilet. If he only goes when a timer goes off, he'll be timer trained but not truly toilet trained. He needs to recognize his own signals and act on them. Just casually remind him to tell you when he needs to go but don't make a big deal of it. If he wets his pants, require him to take a shower or bath, put his wet clothes in the hamper or washer and put on clean clothes. This will take a bit of time away his playtime. Do only the minimum to help him during these tasks. The idea is to make it a little unpleasant so he decides it's better to just use the toilet. He will probably protest and cry about having to do these things. No matter what he does, don't give in and don't help him beyond the very minimum. That will only teach him that he can get out of things by throwing a fit.

When he does stay dry between toilet visits, give him lots of praise and a small reward (like one M&M). You can also use a sticker chart where he gets a bigger reward after a dry day. Don't worry so much about him staying dry at night. Daytime training should be the first goal. Many kids continue for a few years needing Pull-ups at night. Eventually, he'll start waking up dry.

This approach may seem a little extreme, but I think it's necessary for a 4 year old. We've had 3 kids become trained in our classroom in the past few months. All 3 responded to this tough-love approach and their parents were mystified and delighted that it worked. Good luck!

 

[Hoosier Mom]

I understand the frustration. We had a hard time with our 3 1/2 year old. After several failed attempts, I took away the pullups (except at bedtime). He wore underwear, and had to clean up his own messes.

I didn't have any luck finding a reward that was worth it to him. The only thing that worked for us, is that he was truly grossed out to rinse his undies in the toilet and go toss them in the washing machine.

Our son was a late talker too. Went to developmental preschool. Then we had another problem. He would be potty trained here at home, but afraid to use the potty at school. Poor guy would hold it for 4 hours and get off the bus and run in the house.

Another thing....I had to train him to go seated backwards on our potty. He did not like the potty chair, or those seats you add, only our regular potty, but seated backwards. He is not quite tall enough to stand and go yet, plus that takes lots of coordination. But now a year later he can go seated frontwards or backwards.

Good luck!!

 

[Rylee]

When our son was 2.5 - 3, we were in a high risk pregnancy with our fifth child who was born with a very rare birth defect. We knew we would need to seek out-of-state medical attention immediately following his birth and would be away from home for more than a month. I knew this would be stressful for our son... parents away from home, birth of a new baby, etc., so we waited to train him.

A week after his 3rd birthday, (2 months after we were back home with the baby) I talked with his Dr. about how to approach it, and he said, "At his age, make him be responsible for his own training."

I took away the pull-ups, put a stack of training underwear and some wipes in the bathroom and told him, "The Dr. says you need to go on the potty. If you have an accident, clean up and change your clothes." He trained within few days! (Seriously, didn't even take a full week.)

Make an appointment with his pediatrician and have him checked out. (I would probably back off until you see the Dr. This will also give him a little time before you try a new approach.)
Once you have the go-ahead, tell him what you expect from him, and what he needs to do when he has an accident.
Remain calm and don't react to accidents. Make sure he doesn't receive any special attention when he has an accident.
Have him wear simple clothing so he can dress himself... sweat pants, no buttons, etc.

Good luck.

 

[disneymarie]

My almost 4 year old son (4 in Jan) will not potty train and it's driving us all nuts. I always said I'd never let it get this far, but I seem powerless to stop it.
Just for reference, my DD was fully trained at 20 months by letting her have a naked day then followed up with a timer for a few days just to be sure we both remembered. So this struggle and using other techniques are foreign to us. Please help this desperate mom!

It just happens, no rhyme or reason. Don't beat your self up.
My dgs like his father was the same way this year. Shortly after his fourth, it just happened.The girls, also were 20 months in pretty pants and nite pull ups.

We tried the big boy pants like boxers, then the Thomas the Tank and that was a huge incentive.
We took the pull ups away....one day just told him, after 4 no more, that school was starting and the big kids wore underpants. We did watch for him to grab himself, or do that face....and make him go.

Also, we are rural, and out side playing, like the men, he went in the woods,.... OMG we were at local train ride and he wanted to go between the train.

I got a seat with handles for grandmas house. Made the boys take him in with them, jelly bean reward.
FORGET it, just happened, just clicked....
Boy are we relieved. Hang in there a month or so, and it will really happen.

The only thing is he is in speech, he is speech delayed. The words are coming, but consonants are stuck and garble yet. He is in a special preschool.

I had a second boy that just never spoke, finally at 4 he came off with a whole perfect sentence....He still is a quiet guy. Well mostly, You know men, he is now 27....

Just hang in there, let it go, and truly it will happen.

 

[davidsprincess]

With my daughter we had no problem with peeing in the potty. It was the pooping. One day I told her that if she pooped in the potty I would let her use my camera to take her very own poop picture. For some reason she loved this idea of taking a "poop picture" ( I deleated it a couple of days later. thank you digital)
After she did this she thought it was great to go poop on the potty.(of course she wanted to take a picture of it every time, but that eventually stopped).
Just a suggestion. Tell him he can use your camera (with your help ofcourse) to take a picture of his pee/poop to show daddy what a big boy he is when he gets home.

We also made a BIG deal when she did go potty. She was allowed to phone her grandparents and aunties to tell them and then THEY would make a big deal too.
Hope with all the good suggestions you have been getting SOMETHING works.

 

[kwitcherkicken99]

When we started, I'd definately make him go when he got up, before each meal, and before bed. Once he got used to doing that, I'd have him go more often. After about a week, we switched to underwear. DS learned pretty quick that he'd be soaked if he didn't go when he was told. I'd remind him that he wasn't wearing a diaper and he had to use the potty. He'd still wear diapers for bed, but started to fight us over them because "diapers are for babies - I'm a big boy." 3 weeks later, no diapers.

We also took away a toy each time he'd go in his diaper. 1 toy for pee, 2 toys for poop. That worked miracles! He would be rewarded with a few pieces of Pez or M&Ms when he went on the potty. I never set a timer, just told him to go when I thought it had been long enough (I'm not very good with schedules).

I always heard about the nightmares of training boys. I think we lucked out. Good luck with yours - you can do it.

OOOO - almost forgot one thing... we also had him "dunk" cheerios when he started standing to potty. You would be amazed at how little boys respond to target practice. I kept a small tupperware jar in the bathroom with cheerios in it. Each time he'd go, I'd ask him how many he wanted in the pot. The usual answer was 3. Then one day he says, "look Mommy! Mickey's in the toilet!" The 3 cheerios stuck together and formed the all too familiar hidden Mickey.