Alligator Incident Discussion/Fence being built at Grand Floridian?

[katyjeka]

Just read in our paper today that a boy playing in his yard was attacked by a cougar....not sure if the article was correct but the mother was able to get him free.(Colorado I think) Animals in the wild are dangerous everywhere but usually run from u not towards u. I have to wander where the people who no longer feel safe going to WDW, where they will travel. Life is full of risk and we as parents refuse to teach our girls to live in fear. WDW remains a great family destination and will continue to have loyal followers.

 

[cigar95]

. . . . There have now been several CM's reporting that Disney did nothing about guests feeding the alligators. We even have several people here acknowledging that they have seen guests doing this. .

Many people by nature are non-confrontational, CMs included. This may be enough to convince management that the front-line CMs are justified in enforcing regulations.
Part of the Disney training, if it is still done, prioritizes CM actions as (if I'm remembering correctly)
Safety
Courtesy
Show
Efficiency

And since safety rightly takes priority over courtesy, perhaps its time to escort guests observed feeding gators from property, the way that guests at AKLodge are removed for dropping food into the savannas. (I'd like to see feeding birds result in some sort of action, or censure, but I would think the consequences are less severe.)

 

[Luckybee]

I think overall if you drop the swimming vs. wading and sign vs no sign argument. Disney is still partially at fault. There have now been several CM's reporting that Disney did nothing about guests feeding the alligators. We even have several people here acknowledging that they have seen guests doing this. A wildlife specialist is telling us this makes the alligators more dangerous and apparently it is illegal. So people were breaking the Florida laws and Disney knowingly ignored it, instead of taking proper action and notifying whatever authorities are in charge of this. I should think that Florida should be scrutinizing Disney thoroughly for looking the other way when a law is being broken.

And ^this^ is part of the reason why liability isn't going to be in issue and why this will never see the inside of a courtroom. We have vague signage about swimming and no signage about the specific risk, knowledge by the invitor of both the presence of the alligators and the fact they were being fed, the invitor encouraging "play" in the immediate area both by the marketing material, and by the specific actions ie: handing out pails and shovels and night time movies, and knowledge that numerous children wade in the shallows. On the other side the only defense to the claim is that "everyone knows there are gators in Fla" and we said no swimming....As I said in another post liability is a non issue, perhaps with a small portion of contributory negligence on the part of the poor parents(5-10% give or take). The only issue is quantum of damages and how much this will cost Disney both in the settlement and the negative publicity. It has already cost the poor parents far more than whatever Disney will be paying.

Edited to add: I should have said whatever the liability insurers will be paying.

 

[GPC0321]

Not everyone thinks about alligators especially on Disney property.

I would venture to guess that Disney did not want people thinking about alligators while on their property. The number one family destination in the world does lose a bit of its shine when you stop and realize it's got a healthy population of alligators living in its various bodies of water. For someone like me, it's not a big deal because I live in a rural area with wildlife and naturally give unfamiliar bodies of water a wide berth. It's second nature to me. But to people who aren't as familiar with the habits of wildlife, I can understand how discovering that the Magic Kingdom overlooks a lagoon that is home to alligators might be quite worrisome. And though now, in retrospect, it seems unwise, I can understand why Disney didn't want to "burst the bubble" so-to-speak. It's like "Welcome to the most magical place on earth...oh, and by the way whatever you do DON'T GO IN THE ALLIGATOR INFESTED WATER!!" Kind of kills the happy-go-lucky mood.

So, though I understand their reluctance to draw guests' attention to the possible danger posed by the resident gators, that is the one place I can fault Disney. At the very least, they could have had signs with a cartoon alligator smiling that said, "This Water is My Home. Please Do Not Enter."

But, hindsight is 20/20. And all the other places with the signage about gators and risks and such? We don't know what may have happened in the past to prompt those signs going up.

 

[Jennasis]

Nobody is to blame. It's an act of nature. It's a freak accident.

I wonder if Disney is going to replace that gator mascot over at Blizzard Beach too?

 

[housetomouse]

I think Disney should find a way to educate its guests about the importance of not feeding the wildlife in the parks (or anywhere). Enforcement of the rule is a big part of it, but so is education. I think a lot of people think it's harmless and don't know why they shouldn't do it. I doubt it will ever be 100% stopped, but it could be cut back a lot.

 

[tink'smom2B]

Ma'am do you know anything about gators and how they feed? They don't stealthfully crawl up a beach and pick out the nearest thing to eat and then quietly slink back to the water. Your granddaughter sitting on the beach a few feet from the water is going to be safe. It was the fact that the boy was out in the water-splashing around-that created the danger. It's not like the gator was sitting just off the beach hoping that a little one would run down to the edge of the water so it could snatch the poor child. The gator was drawn by the splashing of what it thought was a struggling animal. The gator instinctually went after what it sensed was prey.

Disney is no more and no less safe today than it was a week, a month, a year ago. It's just that your idea that nothing bad could happen was challenged, along with the fact you were nearby. It is hard to admit we aren't ready for our preconceived notions to be broken. Yet, this accident is one of the least likely way that you can meet harm at Disney.

If your statement is true, why was a child attacked on dry land in Fort Wilderness in 1986? Also, someone posted a story about a burglar who was attacked and killed while hiding in bushes outside someone's house in Orlando. What about the reports of an alligator on the beach at the Polynesian resort? Have you even read any of these threads? If everyone thinks like you, I'm sure this will happen again and again.

 

[Marine Mom]

They can collect DNA in some surprising situations - but whether the alligator's would be on the 2 year old's body after it had been submerged so long, or vice versa - I'm not sure. Certainly DNA would be proof positive they found the culprit alligator. The value of tooth mark evidence depends on how unique the bite is and how well preserved on the body.

I consider myself a regular and I'm not losing sleep over alligators in WDW.


It's clear some are upset - but I'd be surprised if it was 'millions.' People were upset w/ the drowning at AOA, yet attendance didn't go down. I'd guess that even before this incident most didn't let their toddlers venture into that yucky water after dark - more because it seems like a drowning waiting to happen, or a foot waiting to need stitches because of a cut on broken glass, or a water moccasin bite, not out of fear of lurking alligators.
Many many posters have stated that they aren't natives of alligator locales yet they knew that WDW & Florida had alligators. I'm a California native and I know WDW has alligators - in fact I like to look for them when I ride on park buses. One reason I prefer WDW over DL is because WDW is surrounded by nature v. DL which is surrounded by asphalt and motels. It's obvious from one ride on the Epcot monorail, one boat trip from MK to WL, one boat ride from DS to POR, one bus ride just about anywhere that the resorts are nestled into woods/wilderness & that brings critters that live there - including snakes & alligators, bats & bears, armadillos & snapping turtles, etc.. Indeed it's not unusual for boat captains to point an alligator out if they see one.
I've never seen the attraction of water sprites and the like in that yucky water w/ all that boat traffic - but realistically an alligator isn't going to grab someone riding one of those noisy things mid lake.
I don't expect Yosemite to kill all of the Bears & Mt. Lions, Yellowstone the Grizzlies & wolves, Ca beach towns the Sharks, Alaska the Polar Bears, towns w/ deer & moose to remove all male animals during the rut, etc. just because some one is afraid of them or people need to exercise caution around certain animals at certain times. Those who fear these animals simply don't visit places where they are. Those who want a guaranteed alligator free vacation should probably avoid Florida, including WDW.
Signs are good, the rope fence reinforces the message of we really mean stay out of the water. Of course people will ignore them, they always do, but for those who follow rules the signs & rope will make the warning & reason for it very clear.

Well said!

 

[Lynne M]

I think Disney should find a way to educate its guests about the importance of not feeding the wildlife in the parks (or anywhere). Enforcement of the rule is a big part of it, but so is education. I think a lot of people think it's harmless and don't know why they shouldn't do it. I doubt it will ever be 100% stopped, but it could be cut back a lot.

That's a good point. They could easily put a flyer in the room telling guests not to feed gators, ducks, birds, and any other critters. Aside from safety issues, it would be good to inform people of how harmful it is for the animals.

And it's time for a crackdown on feeding gators, too. I'd slap a $500 fine on any guest that's caught feeding one. A repeat offense gets you permanently trespassed.

 

[tink'smom2B]

I've read thru most of the pages on this thread, and really had to refrain myself from commenting.

First, I'm not too active on these boards, but I have been a member for several years and have posted several times.

The attack was just a rare, freak accident. Personally, I do not feel that anyone is to blame. All anyone can do is say "I would have done XYZ differently if it were me." To me, the water of Seven Seas Lagoon is just gross and there's no way I'd put a toe in that water or allow my child to go near it just due to the "gross" factor. To each their own, there are plenty of parents who are fine wading in the water and allowing their kids to wade in the water. We can argue that "No Swimming" is not the same as No Wading/they should have had signs warning of the dangerous animals/no swimming means no parts of the body in the water PERIOD. And at the end of the day, that's all it will be here - a friendly (although some posts make it not-so-friendly) debate. We aren't the lawyers that will eventually be involved, and no matter what the outcome of a potential case may be, our opinions won't matter.

HOWEVER. To those going to extreme and saying "I won't go back to Disney World until it's safe again" (such as the comment I quoted)... BYE FELICIA! Less of a wait time for me and my family!

I live in PA, a state that is notorious for a high deer population. There are so many car accidents due to deer, some even resulting in people passing away. I was driving to Disney World a few years ago and we hit a deer and totaled our car, thankfully nobody was hurt. Do you see me, or anyone else living in states with a high deer population, crying out to "make the roads safer or we won't even drive our cars again"? No.

Same with vacations to the National Parks, I know this was discussed before. A parent said that they would not take their children there due to wildlife. To me, that is just sad. You won't take your kids to some of the most beautiful places in our own country because of wildlife? Do you know what kind of creepy crawlies are all over the place, maybe even your own home, that pose a danger to you and your family? That your chances of getting into a serious car accident are greater?

FURTHERMORE - Do you hear from the population in Florida calling out to the government to remove every gator from their State because they feel they are no longer safe? NO!! My aunt lives in Daytona Beach, and she has a pool, and there has been a time or two where a gator made its way into her pool. Is she up in arms about this? No. Because gators living in Florida is a fact of life. They get into pools, they climb up chain link fences, they are on golf courses, crossing roads, etc.

To go to Disney World and think that you are 100% safe from absolutely everything is foolish, and it's sad that it took an accident of this magnitude to burst your "everything is perfect, rainbows and unicorns in Disney World" fantasy. There is nowhere in the world where you are 100% safe, especially the world we live in today.

I worked at Disney World 10 years ago at Splash Mountain. I would see a gator at least once a week. It was a known fact that they were in the water. The waterways in Disney connect to waterways/bodies of water that are not on Disney property. There is no possible way to keep gators out of Disney World. And even if there was a way, what about the dangerous snakes? Dangerous insects? The list goes on and on.

The sad part of this is, even with all of the new signage and fences, people will still think they are above it and will try to get into the water or feed the wildlife. And to those that do, especially after this, well I guess that's just Darwinism at its finest.

My deepest sympathies go to the Graves family at this time. I just cannot begin to imagine what they are going thru. Unfortunately it was just a freak accident. I personally do not think that it's fair for anyone to bash the family and put the blame on them. Again, I honestly believe that because it was an accident that nobody is to blame. I only hope that the family will heal with time.

Well, you have confirmed what I am feeling exactly. Since alligators can get into pools, climb chain link fences, cross roads, etc., etc., my kids have never been and apparently will never be safe at Disneyworld. It was a grand illusion, my happy place, and the bubble is burst. You can have my place in line.

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

I've read thru most of the pages on this thread, and really had to refrain myself from commenting.

First, I'm not too active on these boards, but I have been a member for several years and have posted several times.

The attack was just a rare, freak accident. Personally, I do not feel that anyone is to blame. All anyone can do is say "I would have done XYZ differently if it were me." To me, the water of Seven Seas Lagoon is just gross and there's no way I'd put a toe in that water or allow my child to go near it just due to the "gross" factor. To each their own, there are plenty of parents who are fine wading in the water and allowing their kids to wade in the water. We can argue that "No Swimming" is not the same as No Wading/they should have had signs warning of the dangerous animals/no swimming means no parts of the body in the water PERIOD. And at the end of the day, that's all it will be here - a friendly (although some posts make it not-so-friendly) debate. We aren't the lawyers that will eventually be involved, and no matter what the outcome of a potential case may be, our opinions won't matter.

HOWEVER. To those going to extreme and saying "I won't go back to Disney World until it's safe again" (such as the comment I quoted)... BYE FELICIA! Less of a wait time for me and my family!

I live in PA, a state that is notorious for a high deer population. There are so many car accidents due to deer, some even resulting in people passing away. I was driving to Disney World a few years ago and we hit a deer and totaled our car, thankfully nobody was hurt. Do you see me, or anyone else living in states with a high deer population, crying out to "make the roads safer or we won't even drive our cars again"? No.

Same with vacations to the National Parks, I know this was discussed before. A parent said that they would not take their children there due to wildlife. To me, that is just sad. You won't take your kids to some of the most beautiful places in our own country because of wildlife? Do you know what kind of creepy crawlies are all over the place, maybe even your own home, that pose a danger to you and your family? That your chances of getting into a serious car accident are greater?

FURTHERMORE - Do you hear from the population in Florida calling out to the government to remove every gator from their State because they feel they are no longer safe? NO!! My aunt lives in Daytona Beach, and she has a pool, and there has been a time or two where a gator made its way into her pool. Is she up in arms about this? No. Because gators living in Florida is a fact of life. They get into pools, they climb up chain link fences, they are on golf courses, crossing roads, etc.

To go to Disney World and think that you are 100% safe from absolutely everything is foolish, and it's sad that it took an accident of this magnitude to burst your "everything is perfect, rainbows and unicorns in Disney World" fantasy. There is nowhere in the world where you are 100% safe, especially the world we live in today.

I worked at Disney World 10 years ago at Splash Mountain. I would see a gator at least once a week. It was a known fact that they were in the water. The waterways in Disney connect to waterways/bodies of water that are not on Disney property. There is no possible way to keep gators out of Disney World. And even if there was a way, what about the dangerous snakes? Dangerous insects? The list goes on and on.

The sad part of this is, even with all of the new signage and fences, people will still think they are above it and will try to get into the water or feed the wildlife. And to those that do, especially after this, well I guess that's just Darwinism at its finest.

My deepest sympathies go to the Graves family at this time. I just cannot begin to imagine what they are going thru. Unfortunately it was just a freak accident. I personally do not think that it's fair for anyone to bash the family and put the blame on them. Again, I honestly believe that because it was an accident that nobody is to blame. I only hope that the family will heal with time.

Did you report these weekly gator sightings to Disney management????

 

[Sammie]

If your statement is true, why was a child attacked on dry land in Fort Wilderness in 1986? Also, someone posted a story about a burglar who was attacked and killed while hiding in bushes outside someone's house in Orlando. What about the reports of an alligator on the beach at the Polynesian resort? Have you even read any of these threads? If everyone thinks like you, I'm sure this will happen again and again.

The boy at Fort Wilderness was not on dry land, he was standing next to pond watching ducks go in and out. I am sure the gator was watching the ducks too.

No place is 100% safe from harm, even your own backyard.

 

[vicki_c]

If your statement is true, why was a child attacked on dry land in Fort Wilderness in 1986? Also, someone posted a story about a burglar who was attacked and killed while hiding in bushes outside someone's house in Orlando. What about the reports of an alligator on the beach at the Polynesian resort? Have you even read any of these threads? If everyone thinks like you, I'm sure this will happen again and again.

This is like a game of telephone. The burglar was hiding from the police in a pond and he was killed by an alligator near Sebastian. Not hiding in the bushes outside someone's house in Orlando.

 

[Jennasis]

Well, you have confirmed what I am feeling exactly. Since alligators can get into pools, climb chain link fences, cross roads, etc., etc., my kids have never been and apparently will never be safe at Disneyworld. It was a grand illusion, my happy place, and the bubble is burst. You can have my place in line.

Where will you go on vacation that is free of threats?

 

[Kevin355]

This is like a game of telephone. The burglar was hiding from the police in a pond and he was killed by an alligator near Sebastian. Not hiding in the bushes outside someone's house in Orlando.

Exactly.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...lorida-burglary-suspect-hiding-cops/76966512/

 

[tink'smom2B]

Where will you go on vacation that is free of threats?

Why would I go to a place crawling with alligators and snakes? I'll save my $$$$ and maybe put in my own pool

 

[Jennasis]

Why would I go to a place crawling with alligators and snakes? I'll save my $$$$ and maybe put in my own pool

Not what I asked. Where can I go on vacation that is free from dangers? Gators, snakes, scorpions, spiders, mountain lions, bears, sharks, sink holes, avalanches, tornadoes, muggers, thieves, rapists, murderers, car accidents, train accidents, plane crashes...heck even staying home in your own pool you could drown.

I remember there was actually time in my life, back in my 20's, where I became paralyzed with fear over things like that. Took some doing to get over that fear, otherwise I would have missed out on a LOT of fantastic life, sitting in my room, worrying.

 

[tink'smom2B]

Exactly.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...lorida-burglary-suspect-hiding-cops/76966512/

Thanks for clarifying this. I read earlier that he was hiding near houses. But, you surely must admit that alligators can and do come out of the water. If Disney can't keep alligators away from me and my family, I will have to stay away from Disney. Just my opinion and I'm sure there will be thousands of people to take my place. If they make it safe, I'll come back.

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

Nobody is to blame. It's an act of nature. It's a freak accident.

Why would I go to a place crawling with alligators and snakes? I'll save my $$$$ and maybe put in my own pool

I think Disney will rectify the situation. I would be very surprised if they just put up signs and fences. Already reported that they will remove the beaches. I think they will be much more diligent in removing gators and snakes. Wait and see. Their liability in this tragedy and image will bring about change. I've never seen a snake or gator in the twenty years I've been there. Hopefully you won't either. Ignore the rude posters.

 

[tink'smom2B]

Not what I asked. Where can I go on vacation that is free from dangers? Gators, snakes, scorpions, spiders, mountain lions, bears, sharks, sink holes, avalanches, tornadoes, muggers, thieves, rapists, murderers, car accidents, train accidents, plane crashes...heck even staying home in your own pool you could drown.

I remember there was actually time in my life, back in my 20's, where I became paralyzed with fear over things like that. Took some doing to get over that fear, otherwise I would have missed out on a LOT of fantastic life, sitting in my room, worrying.

Honestly, there was nothing about my Disney vacation that I couldn't do without. 100 degree heat, two hour wait times, crowded transportation? The price we paid was not worth any of that. This was the most stressful vacation I ever had!