Alligator Incident Discussion/Fence being built at Grand Floridian?

[Guyton dis lover]

There's a difference between having potentially dangerous creatures on the property, and there being a high risk of injury or death from those creatures. I think that's what's being missed by some.

WDW has been open for 45 years. In those 45 years, there have been many thousand alligators roaming the property, along with many millions of guests. Guests and alligators have been in much closer contact that they are in most of FL, since Disney's been running beach events, and having guests view fireworks from the beaches, and sitting in lounge chairs on the beaches, for all of that 45 years. For the first several years, the beaches were open for wading, swimming, etc. To this day, guests water ski in the lakes, and there are even endurance events that have people swimming in the lakes.

In that half-century, there has been exactly ONE fatal alligator encounter. One. In nearly 50 years.

To me, that means that the risk of being injured or killed by an alligator on Disney property is astoundingly low. I probably have a better chance of hitting the Powerball than having an alligator bite me at WDW.

Alligators do not chase people down the beaches, snatch people from waterside walkways, or grab guests from their lounge chairs and carry them off. They hang out in the waterways, having a very satisfying diet of birds, fish, snakes, and small mammals, and would much prefer to avoid humans altogether. We are not their preferred prey. But if a human wanders into a lake late at night...well, as we have seen, bad things can happen.

Just because it's possible for something to happen, doesn't mean it's likely for that thing to happen. We have all learned why it's not good to go in the lakes and waterways in FL. That doesn't mean that the entire property is a deathtrap.

This is so true. We live with them in South Georgia and have very very few attacks. Like I have said it was tragic. It will not stop me from going to Walt disney World. You have a thousand times better better chance of having a car crash. That happens every day at Disney World.

 

[freediverdude]

Unfortunately, at this point I think Disney should just write a check for however many millions the lawyers agree on. The signage wasn't enough to let someone know that there were dangerous gators. It's like if you had guests at your house, and you told them "don't go swimming in the backyard pond or pool", and then a gator got in and killed someone- you would still be liable. I think a fence is kind of overkill, but they need to put up new signs that stress there are dangerous reptiles in the waters and stay out, and have them every 10 feet or so, that should cover them. I hate to see a fence like that, it just ruins the scenery and doesn't really protect anything.

 

[BabyFu18]

Once we get past the shock and the blame we're left with a Disney World that is tainted. It used to be the one place I could take my kids and not worry about their safety. Now in the course of a few days I find out the place is teeming with threatening reptiles and walking at night along waterways is a major hazard, letting my young teens ride their own water sprites on Bay Lake is a hazard, alligators stalking, snakes in shrubs, it's changed how I look at the place forever.

Signs and fences just aren't enough. Disney has to develop and announce a comprehensive plan to rid the property of these pests. Turns out we were under the illusion that Disney did this already all these years; now they actually have to.

Disney World was never a place you could take your kids and not be concerned about their safety, there have always been alligators in the waters, snakes in the bushes, etc. those might be things you are just now thinking about or becoming aware of but they aren't new to the area.

As a person traveling anywhere you have to be aware of the dangers that lie in your vacation destination. For me, no matter where I've traveled I always make are I am somewhat familiar with the area so I know what I'm getting into, I know to be aware of things that can be dangerous no matter where I go.

As far as Disney removing all hazards that isn't possible, wildlife is everywhere not just in FL. No mater where you live I bet their is wildlife that you probably don't want to see or be aware of, but wildlife is there and you can't rid your life of them completely. You cannot travel the world and expect that everywhere you go a resort compound has taken measure to ensure all wildlife is kept away from the property. I think their is a point where people have to understand if you're outdoors there are potentially deadly animals outdoors too, be aware of what type of animals live in the places you visit and then your not totally schocked if you happen upon wildlife.

For some people maybe Disney seems a little scarier now, but in all honesty it's not any more dangerous today than it was weeks, months or years ago previously people could not think about those dangers because it wasn't implicitly brought to their attention like this tragedy was.

 

[Beca]

The dangers of Florida waterways are routinely taught to people who attend school in Florida.

The dangers of Florida waterways are not routinely taught to people who attend school in Nebraska, New Jersey, Canada, Britain, Australia, Argentina, and many other places around the world where WDW guests come from.

That's why explicit signage is needed.

While I agree with you, I do so with some caveats. I do think Disney sacrificed safety rather than have explicit signage. However, parents DO have the responsibility for their children. I remember, on my very first ME trip, I was stunned by the number of enclosures over swimming pools that I saw on our way to the resort. We literally saw only ONE pool that was not screened in. The first question I asked the CM who checked usin at the resort was, "are the screened enclosures over all the private pools in the area due to excessive mosquitos, snakes, or alligators?" Her repose, "All of the above." Told me all I needed to know. Of course, I am the person who checks the boat at POTC for any sign of snakes before getting in. I pull back the sheets of the bed and look for signs of bed bugs before settling in to my room. I carry bug spray, sunscreen, antibacterial wipes, and band aids with me. For a few years when our kids were very small, we skipped ME because I didn't like the fact that there are no seat belts on the bus. We are extremely careful, and that does not change when we got our WDW.

 

[Beca]

Unfortunately, at this point I think Disney should just write a check for however many millions the lawyers agree on. The signage wasn't enough to let someone know that there were dangerous gators. It's like if you had guests at your house, and you told them "don't go swimming in the backyard pond or pool", and then a gator got in and killed someone- you would still be liable. I think a fence is kind of overkill, but they need to put up new signs that stress there are dangerous reptiles in the waters and stay out, and have them every 10 feet or so, that should cover them. I hate to see a fence like that, it just ruins the scenery and doesn't really protect anything.

Amen!

 

[alhurricane]

There's a difference between having potentially dangerous creatures on the property, and there being a high risk of injury or death from those creatures. I think that's what's being missed by some.

WDW has been open for 45 years. In those 45 years, there have been many thousand alligators roaming the property, along with many millions of guests. Guests and alligators have been in much closer contact that they are in most of FL, since Disney's been running beach events, and having guests view fireworks from the beaches, and sitting in lounge chairs on the beaches, for all of that 45 years. For the first several years, the beaches were open for wading, swimming, etc. To this day, guests water ski in the lakes, and there are even endurance events that have people swimming in the lakes.

In that half-century, there has been exactly ONE fatal alligator encounter. One. In nearly 50 years.

To me, that means that the risk of being injured or killed by an alligator on Disney property is astoundingly low. I probably have a better chance of hitting the Powerball than having an alligator bite me at WDW.

Alligators do not chase people down the beaches, snatch people from waterside walkways, or grab guests from their lounge chairs and carry them off. They hang out in the waterways, having a very satisfying diet of birds, fish, snakes, and small mammals, and would much prefer to avoid humans altogether. We are not their preferred prey. But if a human wanders into a lake late at night...well, as we have seen, bad things can happen.

Just because it's possible for something to happen, doesn't mean it's likely for that thing to happen. We have all learned why it's not good to go in the lakes and waterways in FL. That doesn't mean that the entire property is a deathtrap.

An absolutely excellent post. My thoughts exactly and I couldn't have worded it any better. While what happened is purely tragic and I grieve for the family, some perspective needs to be maintained.

 

[scrapquitler]

Is that fence really just a couple ropes strung between poles? yeah that's not to protect anyone and just a barrier for humans to not go into the water.

That's the point. It's to remind the humans to stay out of the water. Now Disney has a sign that says "ALLIGATORS BEWARE!" and a fence. If someone goes in the water, it's not Disney's fault that they didn't stay behind the fence and heed the warning.

Besides, I'd guess that this particular fence is TEMPORARY until they come up with a more permanent plan.

 

[Boopuff]

This was really no one's fault. Disney can not control the natural wildlife that share the land with the parks. They do have a staff of trained people who remove/relocate alligators all the time. The horrible/freakish accident was just that. Are the parents to blame? Disney? Signs saying "No swimming" clearly (or not so clearly) mean different things to different folks. I'm in the -no swim- means don't go in the water not even a toe. To someone else it means - ok wade in up to your knees but no backstroke. So the big, question is this. Let's say Disney had a big sign saying "Careful gators in the water" would that really deter the grandma who wants to grab a bucket of water so her grandbabies can make a sandcastle? Would that deter the honeymooners taking a late night stroll from dipping toes in? I think not. As most humans go they will err on the side of "it won't happen to me" and grab that bucket of water, stroll along waters edge etc...

 

[AR81]

Just a question and forgive my ignorance regarding alligator behavior. Do alligators swim in deep water? How have they allowed all the watersports from the marinas around the property? This is something we were considering of course before the incident. So are the boat rentals etc suspended at this point?

 

[Kevin355]

Just a question and forgive my ignorance regarding alligator behavior. Do alligators swim in deep water? How have they allowed all the watersports from the marinas around the property? This is something we were considering of course before the incident. So are the boat rentals etc suspended at this point?

Alligators use the sun to heat themselves. They will usually lie near the bottom of a shallow lake/pond, and will try to avoid all boats and watercraft. The issue becomes when people leave their food trash near the water or actually throw food to the gators. Gators will be nowhere near your watercraft. Gators do look for food near rocks and shore at times, but mostly they feed near the bottom of lakes/ponds. And they are territorial as heck. And when water levels lower, gators will be seen near the top.

 

[BK2014]

It's like if you had guests at your house, and you told them "don't go swimming in the backyard pond or pool", and then a gator got in and killed someone- you would still be liable.

Assuming in your scenario that the gator killed someone in your pond or pool that you had explicitly told them to stay out of, there is no way you would be held liable. That's ridiculous. Even if the gator killed the person on some other part of your property, it would be hard for a court or jury to find you liable. *Note - I am not in any way analyzing Disney's possible liability in the current situation, as it is not at all analogous to your hypothetical.

 

[AnnaKat]

Disney ONLY directly stated that they are reviewing their protocol & signage; you have seen the exact quote.
They have NOT explicitly STATED THAT they are putting up alligator warning signs!
NOR have they stated ANYthing about putting up fences/barriers.

It concerns me that they have ONLY said that they are reviewing. They have directly promised us nothing,
INCL ANY warning signs!
For ALL we are being directly told, they could choose to change signage to " Stay out of the damn lakes! ".
( That would be FAR better than the misinterpreted " No swimming " signs ).

Signs specifically warning about alligators should be put up, IMO.
HOWEVER, those signs will remind guests about the horrific casualty,
AND may elicit comments about " toddler snatching alligators lurking/lunging ".

Disney WOULD PREFER guests to FORGET about the tragedy;
therefore, I believe that they will try to AVOID putting up alligator warning signs.
They have created SO MUCH good will over 50 years,
THAT they could " get away " with NOT changing things
in the ways that we all expect.

I KNOW that may sound outrageous,
but they did nothing about the guests feeding the alligators!

I pray Disney will do the things that guests expect,
and not treat this as a super rare incident.

 

[luvthemouse71]

Unfortunately, at this point I think Disney should just write a check for however many millions the lawyers agree on. The signage wasn't enough to let someone know that there were dangerous gators. It's like if you had guests at your house, and you told them "don't go swimming in the backyard pond or pool", and then a gator got in and killed someone- you would still be liable. I think a fence is kind of overkill, but they need to put up new signs that stress there are dangerous reptiles in the waters and stay out, and have them every 10 feet or so, that should cover them. I hate to see a fence like that, it just ruins the scenery and doesn't really protect anything.

I think they will.. I can't see them fighting this in court. Not because I think they are liable, but because I think they honestly feel badly this happened and it would be unkind to prolong this agony out in court.

 

[22Tink]

Disney ONLY directly stated that they are reviewing their protocol & signage; you have seen the exact quote.
They have NOT explicitly STATED THAT they are putting up alligator warning signs!
NOR have they stated ANYthing about putting up fences/barriers.

It concerns me that they have ONLY said that they are reviewing. They have directly promised us nothing,
INCL ANY warning signs!
For ALL we are being directly told, they could choose to change signage to " Stay out of the damn lakes! ".
( That would be FAR better than the misinterpreted " No swimming " signs ).

Signs specifically warning about alligators should be put up, IMO.
HOWEVER, those signs will remind guests about the horrific casualty,
AND may elicit comments about " toddler snatching alligators lurking/lunging ".

Disney WOULD PREFER guests to FORGET about the tragedy;
therefore, I believe that they will try to AVOID putting up alligator warning signs.
They have created SO MUCH good will over 50 years,
THAT they could " get away " with NOT changing things
in the ways that we all expect.

I KNOW that may sound outrageous,
but they did nothing about the guests feeding the alligators!

I pray Disney will do the things that guests expect,
and not treat this as a super rare incident.

It's happening. There have been multiple threads with pictures confirming this. Fencing and signs are already up at the GF, and apparently they are currently working on fencing and signage at the Poly now.

 

[Jennasis]

Disney ONLY directly stated that they are reviewing their protocol & signage; you have seen the exact quote.
They have NOT explicitly STATED THAT they are putting up alligator warning signs!
NOR have they stated ANYthing about putting up fences/barriers.

It concerns me that they have ONLY said that they are reviewing. They have directly promised us nothing,
INCL ANY warning signs!
For ALL we are being directly told, they could choose to change signage to " Stay out of the damn lakes! ".
( That would be FAR better than the misinterpreted " No swimming " signs ).

Signs specifically warning about alligators should be put up, IMO.
HOWEVER, those signs will remind guests about the horrific casualty,
AND may elicit comments about " toddler snatching alligators lurking/lunging ".

Disney WOULD PREFER guests to FORGET about the tragedy;
therefore, I believe that they will try to AVOID putting up alligator warning signs.
They have created SO MUCH good will over 50 years,
THAT they could " get away " with NOT changing things
in the ways that we all expect.

I KNOW that may sound outrageous,
but they did nothing about the guests feeding the alligators!

I pray Disney will do the things that guests expect,
and not treat this as a super rare incident.

Umm they already putup new warning signs and fences.

 

[luvthemouse71]

Maybe you don't build a sand castle.

There's that.

 

[luvthemouse71]

Disney World was never a place you could take your kids and not be concerned about their safety, there have always been alligators in the waters, snakes in the bushes, etc. those might be things you are just now thinking about or becoming aware of but they aren't new to the area.

As a person traveling anywhere you have to be aware of the dangers that lie in your vacation destination. For me, no matter where I've traveled I always make are I am somewhat familiar with the area so I know what I'm getting into, I know to be aware of things that can be dangerous no matter where I go.

As far as Disney removing all hazards that isn't possible, wildlife is everywhere not just in FL. No mater where you live I bet their is wildlife that you probably don't want to see or be aware of, but wildlife is there and you can't rid your life of them completely. You cannot travel the world and expect that everywhere you go a resort compound has taken measure to ensure all wildlife is kept away from the property. I think their is a point where people have to understand if you're outdoors there are potentially deadly animals outdoors too, be aware of what type of animals live in the places you visit and then your not totally schocked if you happen upon wildlife.

For some people maybe Disney seems a little scarier now, but in all honesty it's not any more dangerous today than it was weeks, months or years ago previously people could not think about those dangers because it wasn't implicitly brought to their attention like this tragedy was.

Excellent post. Regarding the dangers anywhere you travel, I have a coworker that recently went to Costa Rica. She was packing her suitcase and discovered there was a scorpion in it..she had hung her beach towel on the railing to dry before going home and he must have come into the suitcase with that. After she finished screaming, she didn't storm down to the desk and demand compensation or signage that there may be scorpion or other nasties on property. She took a picture of it, her husband got rid of it and they left.

 

[PFopma]

I agree that Disney needs to put up more signage. I have been going to WDW since 1973 and have only seen one alligator on Disney property and it was along a water filled ditch on the side of the road far from any resort or theme park. But the fact is there is the potential for alligators in any fresh body of water in FL. I think putting some educational materials in the resort rooms or maybe even some programing on the resort TV channels would help. Unfortunately there are always going to be those people like the idiots who are feeding the gators that when they see a sign that says "warning alligators" will ready it as "come pet and feed the alligators".

I am a docent at a local zoo and we have Do Not Feed signs all over the zoo. They are ignored on a regular basis. Not to mention the climbing over barricades by adult and kids that I have seen occur. I could write a book on the stupid things I have seen people do.

 

[scrapquitler]

Disney ONLY directly stated that they are reviewing their protocol & signage; you have seen the exact quote.
They have NOT explicitly STATED THAT they are putting up alligator warning signs!
NOR have they stated ANYthing about putting up fences/barriers.

It concerns me that they have ONLY said that they are reviewing. They have directly promised us nothing,
INCL ANY warning signs!
For ALL we are being directly told, they could choose to change signage to " Stay out of the damn lakes! ".
( That would be FAR better than the misinterpreted " No swimming " signs ).

Signs specifically warning about alligators should be put up, IMO.
HOWEVER, those signs will remind guests about the horrific casualty,
AND may elicit comments about " toddler snatching alligators lurking/lunging ".

Disney WOULD PREFER guests to FORGET about the tragedy;
therefore, I believe that they will try to AVOID putting up alligator warning signs.
They have created SO MUCH good will over 50 years,
THAT they could " get away " with NOT changing things
in the ways that we all expect.

I KNOW that may sound outrageous,
but they did nothing about the guests feeding the alligators!

I pray Disney will do the things that guests expect,
and not treat this as a super rare incident.

They are putting up fences. There are numerous pictures here showing the fence that is now up at GF and and other resorts. And there are now signs that say Beware of Alligators. They have also stated that they are reviewing. More changes may (and likely WILL) be coming.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

Maybe you don't build a sand castle.

Maybe Disney stops handing out pails and shovels and inviting you down for activities on their fake "beach".