Alligator Incident Discussion/Fence being built at Grand Floridian?

[boltjames]

I don't know why anyone would assume a company would plan for every possible safety risk to its consumers. It is just not possible.

Plan for every possible safety risk? LOL. Here, let's make this simple:

Do you think Disney did the right thing by not informing guests about alligators they knew were on the property and inviting children to frolic in the very places and times that were the most dangerous?

 

[boltjames]

I have vacationed here for over twenty years and alligators were never on my radar. We even spent nearly half of those years in the campground. Snakes are everywhere in the Wilderness resort. So many, in fact, that I won't stay there anymore. Now alligators, and you all are telling me it's just something I'm supposed to accept and get over. Well, I'll just take my money elsewhere, thank you!

Exactly.

 

[Lynne M]

**Moderator note: Please use this thread for discussion of the alligator incident at the Grand Floridian, and related information/concerns. New threads on this topic will be merged in or closed as necessary.***

 

[momofkids]

Plan for every possible safety risk? LOL. Here, let's make this simple:

Do you think Disney did the right thing by not informing guests about alligators they knew were on the property and inviting children to frolic in the very places and times that were the most dangerous?

I have no idea if Disney did the right or wrong thing because I don't know that Disney knew guests were ignorant of alligator dangers. You say it is okay for guests to be ignorant. Doesn't that mean it is okay for Disney (a group of people) to be ignorant of the ignorance of their guests? You say how are you supposed to know what you don't know if someone doesn't tell you? Well, how is Disney supposed to know what you don't know if you don't tell them? It's all rather ridiculous really.

I thought the dangers of alligators in Florida waterways was common knowledge. I learned about it in school. Maybe the people at Disney thought the same thing.

Now that they are aware of the lack of knowledge among guests, they are working to make changes.

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

I'm sure this fence is just a temporary measure until they meet with engineers etc and develop a comprehensuve design for all of Disney property

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

I have no idea if Disney did the right or wrong thing because I don't know that Disney knew guests were ignorant of alligator dangers. You say it is okay for guests to be ignorant. Doesn't that mean it is okay for Disney (a group of people) to be ignorant of the ignorance of their guests? You say how are you supposed to know what you don't know if someone doesn't tell you? Well, how is Disney supposed to know what you don't know if you don't tell them? It's all rather ridiculous really.

I thought the dangers of alligators in Florida waterways was common knowledge. I learned about it in school. Maybe the people at Disney thought the same thing.

Now that they are aware of the lack of knowledge among guests, they are working to make changes.

It's Disney's responsibility to inform it's guests of alligators on property. Perhaps set up a hotline number for alligator sightings and warn guests in its literature not to feed them. I don't even understand the above quotes.

 

[momofkids]

Plan for every possible safety risk? LOL. Here, let's make this simple:

Do you think Disney did the right thing by not informing guests about alligators they knew were on the property and inviting children to frolic in the very places and times that were the most dangerous?

By the way, your "let's make this simple" implies that you think I am not smart enough to understand your argument. I am. I got what you are saying. I just don't feel that you are right.

I can't argue with emotions or irrationality. I will let you continue your argument without me, and I will wait until more FACTS come out before I pass judgment on this incident.

 

[boltjames]

I have no idea if Disney did the right or wrong thing because I don't know that Disney knew guests were ignorant of alligator dangers. You say it is okay for guests to be ignorant. Doesn't that mean it is okay for Disney (a group of people) to be ignorant of the ignorance of their guests? You say how are you supposed to know what you don't know if someone doesn't tell you? Well, how is Disney supposed to know what you don't know if you don't tell them? It's all rather ridiculous really.

I thought the dangers of alligators in Florida waterways was common knowledge. I learned about it in school. Maybe the people at Disney thought the same thing.

Now that they are aware of the lack of knowledge among guests, they are working to make changes.

So one of the largest companies on the planet with intense experience in Florida swampland and with scores of employees and guests who have expressed their grave concern about the alligator problem didn't set off a light bulb and maybe make Disney think about some alligator awareness programs?

Oh boy.

You know, it's this type of thinking that got that poor boy killed. Of course Disney knows the demographics of its guests. They simply decided that pretty beaches added to the ambiance, $5 s'mores were a profitable nighttime venture, and scary signs depicting deadly beasts wasn't good for business.

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

The boy that was killed was several feet out into the water. If the alligator got THAT close to the shore they'll happily go under this fence too.

And yes I *AM* serious. I said WATER LINE. Enough to get your feet wet at best. That PLUS the signs saying "here be alligators" should be enough for safety and reponsible parenting/caretaking.

More people have been killed at Disney because of Mission Space than alligators but I don't see calls for shutting that down -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission:_Space#Controversy

I'm sure the parents of the two year old boy who just died would love to hear your logic about Mission Space ......... Ridiculous!!!!

 

[momofkids]

So one of the largest companies on the planet with intense experience in Florida swampland and with scores of employees and guests who have expressed their grave concern about the alligator problem didn't set off a light bulb and maybe make Disney think about some alligator awareness programs?

Oh boy.

You know, it's this type of thinking that got that poor boy killed. Of course Disney knows the demographics of its guests. They simply decided that pretty beaches added to the ambiance, $5 s'mores were a profitable nighttime venture, and scary signs depicting deadly beasts wasn't good for business.

Your tone is turning derogatory toward me. I am simply saying that I don't know. I am not here to argue for the sake of arguing. Eventually more information will come out about this tragedy.

Until then, alligators can be dangerous and should be assumed to be found in any and all waters in Florida. Disney is now taking steps to warn guests.

 

[luvthemouse71]

Again?
- Virtually impossible
- For every one gone, it's replaced with another
- NATURAL to the ENTIRE State
- Alligators were on the endangered species spectrum
- Gators are protected by law
- That means against the law
- Disney has no authority to move the bigger ones
- State must come in, evaluate and move bigger ones
- Disney can and does move smaller ones when they feel a nuisance
- Something like less than 30 deaths in 70 years in the state = LOW priority and not a problem
- They have much bigger problems, google Nile Crocodile and Pythons ... in the everglades ... guess where the everglades go to, yup Orlando.
- Greater danger from poisonous snakes and amoeba
- As always Disney World is an optional vacation, don't like it's wildlife, don't go
- Gator attacks are more due to reduced fear because people feed them and people entering their areas, aka people are the problem.
- "Millions of guests expected" ............... nothing whatsoever to support that statement.
- We get it, we've heard it over and over, you don't want alligators at Disney.
- Not gonna happen any more than getting rid of all the birds.



AGREE.... NY Post is the equivalent to Enquirer so junk journalism with no real regard to facts.

To follow up on the CSR guest .... his story has not been consistent. He first stated his son was out in the water to top of his calf .... note that CSR water is not accessible like GF so he clearly entered water he was not supposed to go in. He was so upset, so shocked, so livid that the manager didn't do anything ........... so he, a lawyer, did nothing either. He didn't make any calls or write any letters when he got home - kinda his specialty. What he did was wait until now to get his "story" to the national media, which for all we know is made up, and loving his 15 minutes of fame. Maybe he is hoping to represent the family.

I logged in specifically to like this. Well said! I'm getting tired of hearing all of the people in denial of basic scientific fact. Florida is full of wildlife and so is WDW. People have found snakes in their rooms at some resorts along with some very nasty spiders( that would be me). I believe some months ago, a snake fell out of a tree at one of the parks onto a guest. There are 1.3 million alligators in Florida and they are found in all bodies of water. They migrate. They even climb fences.

This incident was sad. But, it is also extremely rare. With common sense you can lessen your chances of coming into contact with a gator. Tops on the list for me would be not splashing around in swamp water. I am glad they are fencing the water off for now, and I would like to see it done permanently. I say this because there are many stubborn and willfully ignorant people who will look at a sign with an alligator on it and if they want to play in the swamp badly enough, the justifications will start in their Disney Bubble minds, even after this incident.

I know I sound harsh. But, does anyone think how hard this was on the first responders, many of whom have kids, grandkids, nieces, or nephews? How about the divers who had to look for a two year old's body, I'm sure wanting to find it so they could give the parents closure, yet terrified and heartsick at what they were going to find? I have experience in trauma(OR nurse) and believe me, every badly hurt or dead child leaves a scar on your soul. I am not blaming the parents, BTW. I'm blaming people who will refuse to learn from this and will complain that they can't wade in the swamp anymore and that this "ruins the Magic".

 

[Shanti]

Couldn't they have at least put the fence just inside the water line to allow wading and getting wet sand for sand castles?

And allow for burying your head in the sand, maybe?

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

I logged in specifically to like this. Well said! I'm getting tired of hearing all of the people in denial of basic scientific fact. Florida is full of wildlife and so is WDW. People have found snakes in their rooms at some resorts along with some very nasty spiders( that would be me). I believe some months ago, a snake fell out of a tree at one of the parks onto a guest. There are 1.3 million alligators in Florida and they are found in all bodies of water. They migrate. They even climb fences.

This incident was sad. But, it is also extremely rare. With common sense you can lessen your chances of coming into contact with a gator. Tops on the list for me would be not splashing around in swamp water. I am glad they are fencing the water off for now, and I would like to see it done permanently. I say this because there are many stubborn and willfully ignorant people who will look at a sign with an alligator on it and if they want to play in the swamp badly enough, the justifications will start in their Disney Bubble minds, even after this incident.

I know I sound harsh. But, does anyone think how hard this was on the first responders, many of whom have kids, grandkids, nieces, or nephews? How about the divers who had to look for a two year old's body, I'm sure wanting to find it so they could give the parents closure, yet terrified and heartsick at what they were going to find? I have experience in trauma(OR nurse) and believe me, every badly hurt or dead child leaves a scar on your soul. I am not blaming the parents, BTW. I'm blaming people who will refuse to learn from this and will complain that they can't wade in the swamp anymore and that this "ruins the Magic".

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

But Disney had the responsibility to warn it's guests about alligators and it failed to do so until this tragedy!!!!!!

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

Your tone is turning derogatory toward me. I am simply saying that I don't know. I am not here to argue for the sake of arguing. Eventually more information will come out about this tragedy.

Until then, alligators can be dangerous and should be assumed to be found in any and all waters in Florida. Disney is now taking steps to warn guests.

....... After the death of a two year old!

 

[boltjames]

I logged in specifically to like this. Well said! I'm getting tired of hearing all of the people in denial of basic scientific fact. Florida is full of wildlife and so is WDW. People have found snakes in their rooms at some resorts along with some very nasty spiders( that would be me). I believe some months ago, a snake fell out of a tree at one of the parks onto a guest. There are 1.3 million alligators in Florida and they are found in all bodies of water. They migrate. They even climb fences.

Now we all know. It would have been nice for Disney to tell guests this before the inevitable occurred. There were no indications to people not indigenous to Florida who would think that alligators were thriving in a man-made lake on whose edge Disney enticed small children to gather at feeding time.

"Denial of basic scientific fact". Yeah, to people who live in the south.

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

Now we all know. It would have been nice for Disney to tell guests this before the inevitable occurred. There were no indications to people not indigenous to Florida who would think that alligators were thriving in a man-made lake on whose edge Disney enticed small children to gather at feeding time.

"Denial of basic scientific fact". Yeah, to people who live in the south.

EXACTLY!!!!!!

 

[boltjames]

Your tone is turning derogatory toward me.

Ya think?

Hey, I've got a cabin in Maine that I know 15 raccoons live inside of, they come out at night and scratch on the doorposts, sit on the couches, rummage through the kitchen, really bad. But I'm not going to tell anyone. I'm going to let them pay me $700, bring their entire family there, and the next morning when they tell me what happened when they tucked the kids in bed and turned out the lights I'll tell them "well ma'am, raccoons live in Maine, you should have known there could be some in the cabin, it's basic scientific fact."

 

[luvthemouse71]

They had a sign saying no swimming. Many feel ( I'm one of them), that should have been enough to keep people out of the swamp.

We also live in an age where information is everywhere. The fact that Florida is rife with alligators is not esoteric knowledge. Alligators make up much of the cultural fabric of Florida too. Many sports teams named after them, they're all over souvenirs, there are attractions focused on them such as Gatorland, which is fairly well known.

Disney is putting up more specific signs and fencing off water access. I'm sure they will settle with this family. What the heck else do you want. You didn't know about gators? Well fine, use this as a learning experience.

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

Ya think?

Hey, I've got a cabin in Maine that I know 15 raccoons live inside of, they come out at night and scratch on the doorposts, sit on the couches, rummage through the kitchen, really bad. But I'm not going to tell anyone. I'm going to let them pay me $700, bring their entire family there, and the next morning when they tell me what happened when they tucked the kids in bed and turned out the lights I'll tell them "well ma'am, raccoons live in Maine, you should have known there could be some in the cabin, it's basic scientific fact."

So right and hysterical!