Alligator Incident Discussion/Fence being built at Grand Floridian?

[Sammie]

What does that have to do with this topic?

It was in reference to known and unknown dangers in certain parts of the country.

I think common sense and some knowledge of local dangers is all anyone needs to be reasonably safe. Freak accidents happen all the time. People trip over rugs at home and hit their heads and die. You can't bubble wrap the world or yourself.

 

[warrenz1963]

It has entrances and exits for cars. It is not fenced around the perimeter. The local wildlife comes and goes as it pleases, and there is no way that Disney is going to put an alligator-proof fence around nearly 50 square miles of property.

I get that you've realized that your image of WDW as a 100% safe area wasn't correct, and that's bound to be disturbing. But it will never be 100% safe. That's not a reasonable goal.

I look at comparative risk. I know that bad things can and have happened at WDW. Children have been hit by buses and killed. People have died on rides, been bitten by poisonous snakes and spiders, been raped, robbed, had cars and resort rooms broken into. All of those incidents are highly, extremely unusual, and there is probably more chance of any of them happening to me in my home town than at WDW. Because Disney goes to great lengths to keep guests safe. The bottom line: I feel safer at Disney than I do at a lot of vacation destinations. Am I 100% safe? No. I'm not 100% safe anywhere, unless I build a safe room in my condo and never leave it. I look at Disney's record of crime, accidents, etc, and I judge it to be safe enough for me.

And in the end, that's all you can do, too. You judge whether an area is safe enough for you. You seem to feel that WDW isn't safe enough, and that's entirely your decision to make.

This. All of this. Reason and reality. It may be too soon for the fog of outrage and bluster to dissipate, but thank you stating it so clearly.

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

I've read the comment about wanting to leave, a number of times from you.

Why can't you leave?

That comment is unnecessary! To the original poster I'm sure that the fencing is just temporary until they decide on and design a better fencing system.

 

[Jennasis]

That comment is unnecessary! To the original poster I'm sure that the fencing is just temporary until they decide on and design a better fencing system.

You're sure? How? Why? Fence is fine as IMO.

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

NOTHING will keep a gator off a beach. They are tanks. Covered in scaly armor.
It's to keep people away from the water so they don't splash around and get mistaken for something the gator can eat. I get that people who don't live in the south don't get it. I do. I didn't live in the south until about six months ago. But if you don't like the idea that there's a minuscule chance of a gator encounter then don't go to GA, FL, LA, MS, AL. Period.

Wasn't so miniscule this week was it? Tell that to the little boy's parents. I hope they never read these boards!

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

You're sure? How? Why? Fence is fine as IMO.

Disney executives havnt had the time to develop a comprehensive plan yet. The boy just died this week. They will be meetings with their attorneys, engineers, wild life commission from the state etc. With all due respect, your opinion doesn't count. It will be up to Disney executives to make those decisions after consulting the above professionals!

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

There is literally NO place on Earth that you don't have to worry about your safety. There are hazards everywhere. You do realize Disney isn't actually "magical", right? It is outdoors...of COURSE there is a bunch of dangerous wildlife! How could there not be?

Your safety is YOUR responsibility, no one else's.

Not true! It's also Disney's responsibility.

 

[Lynne M]

Wasn't so miniscule this week was it? Tell that to the little boy's parents. I hope they never read these boards!

Just because there's a minuscule probability of an alligator attacking a human at WDW, doesn't make it any less horrifying and tragic for those involved. That's not what anyone's saying. But it's still an extraordinarily rare event.

 

[Jennasis]

Disney executives havnt had the time to develop a comprehensive plan yet. The boy just died this week. They will be meetings with their attorneys, engineers, wild life commission from the state etc. With all due respect, your opinion doesn't count. It will be up to Disney executives to make those decisions after consulting the above professionals!

We'll see...I fully expect that fence to stay. It will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[jodifla]

Listen if these parents ignored their kid in a swimming pool and he drowned, I get your point. If these parents put this child on a ride that they knew he was too small for, I get your point. If he were in New York City and allowed to cross 5th Avenue by himself without adult supervision, I get your point.

That's not what happened here. Disney invited guests to an alligator lair at feeding time and simply had a sign that said "No Swimming, Please". Absolutely not enough. The boy wasn't swimming. He was kicking his sister's sand castles when he was stalked and drowned to death.

Legally, it is enough. Florida law is pretty clear: property owners are not liable for wild animal attacks, and the "no swimming" signs cover them legally. They have already put up signs. But it is impossible for them to fence the whole place or keep out gators and snakes. Most of the Southeastern U.S. has plenty of both.

Many people are just being totally unrealistic about this.

 

[Splashboat]

What does that have to do with this topic?

If you read the thread you would know my response was directly to the statement from the poster who wrote, "I live in Wisconsin where the worst thing in my neighborhood is a deer that eats my flowers. Can't wait and I'll never complain about Bambi again"

 

[PollyannaMom]

I hope they never read these boards!

Me too!! The level of blaming is just awful...on both sides! Those parents are going to second guess every decision they made that day for the rest of their lives. They certainly don't need us to do it for them.

I actually do come from a place where "no swimming" means "don't touch the water" (because it's about bacteria testing) - but I don't assume that's true everywhere. I have relatives in Florida and visit frequently, so I count on occasionally seeing alligators - but I don't expect everyone to. What happened was a freak accident, not a conscious risk assessment!

In the last 45 years the alligator population has gone from an endangered species to one that is thriving. Back in 1967 there were only a few thousand left, today there are more than a million of them. So this week's incident may look 'rare' on a statistical analysis going back to WDW's opening, but in the context of a million soon growing to 2 million or more, waterside attractions in Florida have to come up with other means to protect their guests.

What happened this week is a precursor of future events far more than it is an anomaly in a look-back.

Which is why I don't think we should blame Disney either!! I think the gators are an increasing threat. The old measures used to be good enough. Of course they'll add new ones now that the data has changed. But I don't think they expected this incident any more than the parents did.

Freak accidents happen all the time. People trip over rugs at home and hit their heads and die. You can't bubble wrap the world or yourself.

When something horrible happens, we convince ourselves it's someone's fault so that we can push away the panic that it might happen to us. - If we wouldn't make the same mistake, we're "safe". But all it really means is that our potential "mistake" would be a different one.

 

[MonaMN]

Disney can throw people and money at this problem and while they might not eliminate the threat entirely they can reduce the alligator population on the property markedly.

We're talking about an innovative company, a company that built an underground city that powers the property. Surely they can hire professionals who know where alligators are likely to nest, likely to hunt, likely to find entry, and build a process to fortify the resort from them. This isn't rocket science. It will take manpower and money and cooperation from the wildlife commission, but it can be done. In 24 hours they caught, what, 8 alligators in the Lagoon with a limited staff. It's a big property, but it has entrances and exits, it can be controlled if Disney simply decides to take the concern seriously enough.

But none of us know how many alligators they regularly handle already. For all we know, they would have dealt with that many or more in a regular week anyway.

There are a lot of assumptions about what they are not doing, but the fact is that we are not privy to the steps they have taken - in accordance with state/local laws - already. The police interviewed noted that this is a regular part of Disney's practice already. And from what I have read, there are regulations stipulating when they are allowed - by state/local laws - to move or euthanize the alligators.

Maybe you should lobby the Florida state legislature to change the laws... but Disney has to follow them as they are right now.

 

[Lynne M]

We'll see...I fully expect that fence to stay. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Yeah, I think the fence is just right and will probably stay as-is. They won't be putting an alligator-proof fence up, because I'm not sure how you do that, unless it's a 8-foot high concrete wall with barbed wire on top.

The purpose of the fence isn't to keep alligators out, anyway. Or to prevent guests from getting past it and into the lagoon, for that matter. It's what I called a "liability fence." It's a visual barrier that makes guests think "wow, they really don't want us in the water," and it's something that Disney can point to in a lawsuit and say "Look, we had signs, we had a fence, and they went right over it and into the lagoon. It's not our fault they were bit by (insert name of toothy creature here)."

 

[conandrob240]

But, would that be the same as closing them then? I mean, if it's landscaping that still provides a place to relax near the lagoon (just not TOO near the lagoon), then aren't the dangers the same? Maybe even worse, since landscaping with foliage and such is prime snake territory. If gators are going to come up onto land, they won't care if it's sand or landscaped areas. They get into swimming pools. They get into the middle of Magic Kingdom.

I'm just not sure when people will be satisfied that "enough" has been done to reduce the risk of a run-in with wildlife on the property? Some people's ideas that Disney can somehow eradicate the entire gator and snake population from the property (a place the size of San Francisco) and keep them away is just completely unrealistic. I can only assume folks with these ideas have very little knowledge about wild animals in general.

I think there are people at both crazy ends but most reasonable people fall somewhere in the middle. I love Disney and I know alligators live in FL. On the other hand, I know Disney didn't warn properly and actually encouraged people to interact close to that water line on their beaches. So, no eradication needed but doing nothing wasn't okay either. I think the fencing and new signs are about right. It's what I expect to be done. I also expect Disney to be found with negligence in this case and rightly so. I also suspect they know they were negligent and feel terrible about it.

 

[MonaMN]

Yeah, I think the fence is just right and will probably stay as-is. They won't be putting an alligator-proof fence up, because I'm not sure how you do that, unless it's a 8-foot high concrete wall with barbed wire on top.

The purpose of the fence isn't to keep alligators out, anyway. Or to prevent guests from getting past it and into the lagoon, for that matter. It's what I called a "liability fence." It's a visual barrier that makes guests think "wow, they really don't want us in the water," and it's something that Disney can point to in a lawsuit and say "Look, we had signs, we had a fence, and they went right over it and into the lagoon. It's not our fault they were bit by (insert name of toothy creature here)."

I would like to see something with maybe big rocks/grass/something that looks a little more natural along the sand line. Stills barrier that says "don't go there" but something that looks more like it belongs.

 

[Lynne M]

I would also remind folks that Disney World is not Jurassic Park. It's not an isolated island in the middle of the sea. People live all around it, and live every single day with the very same critters that some are claiming are such a monstrous danger that they need to be completely eradicated from WDW property. I have friends who live nearby, and every time I make the 25-minute drive to their homes from my Disney resort, I pass a lake, lagoon, pond, etc, every half-mile or so. All probably with several resident gators. My friend had a coral snake in his driveway. He sees snakes in his back yard all the time. We used to take his dog for a walk past a swampy area right down the street that I know had a bobcat roaming in it at point, and probably a gator now and then, too. He's gotten some spider bites just walking on the sidewalk.

My point is, that's everyday life in the south. Are these creatures dangerous? Sure, possibly. Are you gonna see the state of Florida exterminating them all? No. Do they affect most people's lives very much? No.

I'm not minimizing the tragedy that happened, in any way. But I'm saying that there's no more risk to visiting WDW in that regard than there is in going to the Publix or walking your dog on your own street.

 

[jeepnjudy]

We stay across the street at Shades of Green where there are signs warning of alligators/wildlife and the laws against feeding them. Because of this I've always been extra cautious walking by those bodies of water. Naively I've never had that same level of caution when we visit the Poly or GF. Honestly, I am very surprised that Disney would know that the immediate areas around those resorts are infested with alligators and didn't put up a warning.

We have also stayed at Shades of Green almost every year for the past 20 years and have seen an alligator either in the water or on the grass near the water on EVERY trip we have been on!

 

[katyjeka]

Out of respect for the parents who are asking for privacy I've decided to let this topic rest. (They could be members of this board) We are all entitied to our opinion and I guess this will remain a divided topic. Who is to blame, noone. It is a tragic accident and the family now must endure the nightmare. As a parent of 4 I hugged my kids a little harder today. Did disney have the responsibility to inform guests of the gators, would it have made a difference. I don't know. I am a little naive and honestly believe adults should know that a body of water in Florida may have gators. I also would assume that they have heard of the bacteria in lakes that is actually more dangerous than gators. For this reason alone we no longer let our kids in places like this. I'm sure Disney will do what they can with the fences and it should help some. I guarantee that within six months if u visit the GF you will see people, kids included, on the other side of that fence. Sometimes people have to take responsibility and use common sense. These are two things people often leave at home when they check into WDW. Bad things can happen at Disney, it is a massive complex with a lot of dangers. Why some people feel they are safe from any harm in this magical place is beyond me. Many prayers for the family....

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Yeah, I think the fence is just right and will probably stay as-is. They won't be putting an alligator-proof fence up, because I'm not sure how you do that, unless it's a 8-foot high concrete wall with barbed wire on top.

Not sure that works, either. Gators... are pretty good with fences. Curved fences are a best bet, but nature does tend to adapt.

I think everyone's faith that Disney will come up with a magic solution, on the fly, that looks good and is wildly effective when no solution that is either exists today, is misguided. Disney property isn't a place to pilot new systems, and I'm fairly sure there's got to have been multiple university studies about gator barriers already done at multiple southern universities, because gators like to move into retaining pools in golf course communities and senior communities.

(Note: Lynne, not addressing the faith comment at you so much as the number of people who seem to think Disney can legitimately keep every gator out, and do it elegantly. The solution does not exist. And it is unlikely they pilot such a solution in large scale on Disney property, or invent one on such extremely short notice when I've no doubt research has been being done elsewhere for years.)