Alligator dragged 2 year old into 7 seas lagoon

[mom2rtk]

See - because we are from different parts of the country. That's what I am trying to get at.

I am not a hateful monster because I thought people were nuts for going into the water when is says no swimming. I still wouldn't do it, but now I understand. These people were not from an area without many, if any inland lakes. My city alone has 34 inland lakes, so the very literal definition of swimming is more common here. My kid went swimming yesterday, but she probably didn't even go in the water - although that remark probably muddies the water (no pun intended) considerably so pretend I didn't write it. I concede that perhaps most of the country would adhere to the more literal definition of swimming and that they are not idiots, as I have now been educated.

Kumbayah

Sort of like if I say I had a coke, it would be something actually from the coca cola company. But in other parts of the country, you could say you had a coke when you had something from the Pepsi company.

FWIW, I was surprised at a lot of revelations with this story. First, the definition of "no swimming" but also how many people didn't know to be aware of gators in any semi-fresh body of water.

 

[runwad]

I think the fact that other activities are happening on the Lagoon makes you feel that its ok to wade, although not swim. Afterall, if you shouldn't go in the water because of poisonous snakes, brain ameba, alligators and what not, wouldn't all types of water activities be curtailed?

I for one when I first heard this story was like, what? It's a man-made lake how did an alligator get in there. I now understand as it has been explained multiple times on this thread, but for a non-Floridian, I bet most thought like I did.

 

[CPanther95]

I've seen many a broken bone (leg, arm, coccyx) from people jumping in a pool where it says no diving.

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong because as we've proven, everyone translates things differently, but where I come from, no diving means not to jump in the water in any way.

I'll also add, where I come from a holler is either a valley or someone yelling. You have to know what context it is being used in.

I've seen people that cracked their head swimming in a pool because they misjudged how close they were to the wall - even though swimming was allowed. Jumping feet first into a pool, even in the shallow end shouldn't be a problem.

Much like the Wading/Swimming, if you do a Google image search for No jumping no diving signs, you'll see that they are usually considered separate activities all around the country. Especially in a pool where jumping in the pool is more common than using the steps. If they mean to ban jumping, it is always listed separately.

Regarding different terms, every place I've lived, a toboggan is a sled-like snow device. When I moved South, everybody considers it a hat.

 

[chmurf]

Swimming/Wading, we're dealing with people from all over the US, and from all over the world.
We don't have the same notion for the same word.

for many, as for myself, no swimming means "don't go in the water" period.
others make a fuss about discriminating between wading, swimming, jumpings, diving and I'm sure some here could come up with a chart giving a technobabble definition for each water level a body is in, inch by inch.
that's our 'legal' heritage. 'Well, I was not technically/legally swimming, I was merely randomly floating around'

I think we need to go back to common sense. An sign displaying some interdiction means that there is a reason behind it, and most of the time it's danger.

I don't want my kid to go near danger.

I don't care about knowing how many toes it's allowed to put in the water before it's officially considered wading or swimming by the dictionnary (or wikipedia , or an unattainable consensus on an Iternet forum, even if it's called the DIS)
what I do care about is that, if it's deemed unsafe to swim these waters, I don't want my kid in it, be it for his pinky toe.


Now if I may, I'd just like to share my thoughts on those who post pictures of their kids playing in that water, on the same beach. Some saying that they were there just hours before the tragedy, and concluding that it's proof there was no issue with Lane's parents doing the same

I'm quite disturbed by this attitude
Do those parents realise that it could have been their own child ?
Do they realise that if they can 'show off' on Facebook today, it's because they got away with doing something they were not supposed to do ?
In my opinion it's just a way of showing off how smart they are and how rules don't apply to them.

sorry it had to come out.

 

[goodeats]

I do. Sorry.

We're from lake country where we'll go swimming all the time and hardly get wet.

"Did you guys go swimming?"
"Yeah - but it's freaking cold. I just barely got the bottom of my shorts wet and I had to bail.

This is not the case in California. That would be considered wading or even "just putting my feet in." I'll also say the picture on some of the signs of a person actually swimming (horizontal to the shore one arm to their ear) is a person SWIMMING and is very different than someone going ankle deep.

I guess this is a cultural thing - like calling soda "pop" or feeling it's acceptable to have a cash bar at weddings. Not everyone across the country feels the same! It doesn't mean either of us is wrong, but the sign is inadequate for a place with visitors from all over the country and the world.

 

[sam_gordon]

I think we need to go back to common sense. An sign displaying some interdiction means that there is a reason behind it, and most of the time it's danger.

So if there's a sign posted saying "no diving", does that mean don't go in the water? Of course not. Signs are there to tell you the limit of what you're allowed to do.
"Do not enter water"/"No Wading"
"No Swimming"
"No Jumping"
"No Diving"
Are four quick examples. If you see the first one, you know it encompasses the other three. If you see the last one, presumably the others are allowed.

And why is it those who equate "No Swimming" with "don't enter the water" not only believe but feel to the need to point out others are "idiots", "snowflakes", or lack common sense? Are we back to the "it makes them feel like better parents" argument?

 

[Hikergirl]

"WADING" is a term used all around the USA.

All around, but not everywhere.
I live in the US, and ever since I was a child I have traveled to many areas in my region to swim, lakes, oceans, streams. And I don't recall ever seeing a No Wading sign. I have seen plenty of No Swimming signs.
So to this US born and raised citizen, No Swimming means don't go into the water. I really assumed that was common knowledge for everyone. After this incident I realize that it isn't.

I'm not sure why this is even an argument here, or all the other places online.
NO SWIMMING is clearly interpreted differently by different people, depending on where you grew up, what you were taught, or whatever.
Nobody is right, nobody is wrong, or an idiot or a special snowflake because they thought differently from someone else.

 

[CPanther95]

Swimming/Wading, we're dealing with people from all over the US, and from all over the world.
We don't have the same notion for the same word.

for many, as for myself, no swimming means "don't go in the water" period.
others make a fuss about discriminating between wading, swimming, jumpings, diving and I'm sure some here could come up with a chart giving a technobabble definition for each water level a body is in, inch by inch.
that's our 'legal' heritage. 'Well, I was not technically/legally swimming, I was merely randomly floating around'

I think we need to go back to common sense. An sign displaying some interdiction means that there is a reason behind it, and most of the time it's danger.

I don't want my kid to go near danger.

I don't care about knowing how many toes it's allowed to put in the water before it's officially considered wading or swimming by the dictionnary (or wikipedia , or an unattainable consensus on an Iternet forum, even if it's called the DIS)
what I do care about is that, if it's deemed unsafe to swim these waters, I don't want my kid in it, be it for his pinky toe.


Now if I may, I'd just like to share my thoughts on those who post pictures of their kids playing in that water, on the same beach. Some saying that they were there just hours before the tragedy, and concluding that it's proof there was no issue with Lane's parents doing the same

I'm quite disturbed by this attitude
Do those parents realise that it could have been their own child ?
Do they realise that if they can 'show off' on Facebook today, it's because they got away with doing something they were not supposed to do ?
In my opinion it's just a way of showing off how smart they are and how rules don't apply to them.

sorry it had to come out.

Most of us don't need a dictionary to distinguish "Wading" from "Swimming". They are common terms used for centuries that mean 2 completely different things. It's not the difference between "thinking" and "pondering" it's more like the difference between "eating" and "cooking".

I think the major problem here is that we live in a society where basic words like Swimming, Wading, Jumping and Diving are considered by some people to be "Technobabble".

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

So if there's a sign posted saying "no diving", does that mean don't go in the water? Of course not. Signs are there to tell you the limit of what you're allowed to do.
"Do not enter water"/"No Wading"
"No Swimming"
"No Jumping"
"No Diving"
Are four quick examples. If you see the first one, you know it encompasses the other three. If you see the last one, presumably the others are allowed.

And why is it those who equate "No Swimming" with "don't enter the water" not only believe but feel to the need to point out others are "idiots", "snowflakes", or lack common sense? Are we back to the "it makes them feel like better parents" argument?

I just think they may own really tall horses. I'm not sure the correlation, but there seems to be something to it.

 

[CPanther95]

All around, but not everywhere.
I live in the US, and ever since I was a child I have traveled to many areas in my region to swim, lakes, oceans, streams. And I don't recall ever seeing a No Wading sign. I have seen plenty of No Swimming signs.
So to this US born and raised citizen, No Swimming means don't go into the water. I really assumed that was common knowledge for everyone. After this incident I realize that it isn't.

No Swimming signs are much more common. There are many places where wading isn't a problem, but swimming is banned. Unless there's something seriously wrong with the water, or there's something unexpected about the depth of water near the edge, it's much less common for you to be banned from just sticking your feet in the water.

The fact that you haven't seen no wading signs is more likely a result of you not visiting bodies of water where wading was banned - not because it's an area where the term isn't used.

 

[goodeats]

I have seen signs saying "no water entry", which is very different than "no swimming".

 

[luvsJack]

Honestly I think most people that are posting pictures are saying it could have been their child or that it could have been any of us. Disney has been well aware of people wading in the water and yet did not see the need to stop the activity or change the signs. They encouraged sand castle building which needs water so I am guessing that millions of children have gotten in the edge to get water for their sand. That tells me Disney honestly did not see this as a possibility.

Where I live we swim in lakes, rivers, creeks, pools, and even ponds.And we still define wading and swimming differently. We also define floating differently-tubes floating down the creek no act of swimming involved. Diving is different than jumping. although in a creek or river we tend to find out whats in it before we jump in or make rope swings, I wouldn't expect some one from another area to understand that.

No one intentionally broke any rules in this situation.

 

[Hikergirl]

No Swimming signs are much more common. There are many places where wading isn't a problem, but swimming is banned. Unless there's something seriously wrong with the water, or there's something unexpected about the depth of water near the edge, it's much less common for you to be banned from just sticking your feet in the water.

The fact that you haven't seen no wading signs is more likely a result of you not visiting bodies of water where wading was banned - not because it's an area where the term isn't used.

Yes, I get that, which is why I was making my point.

 

[asta]

All of this word technicalities is making my head spin. So Disney puts up signs that say 'no swimming, no wading'. Does that mean you think it is OK to jump in the water because the sign did not say 'no jumping'?

 

[CPanther95]

Yes, I get that, which is why I was making my point.

I thought your point was that where you are from "No Swimming" means no entry at all. I'm suggesting that perhaps wading was allowed, you just made the assumption that it meant you can't even stick your feet in the water.

 

[pocomom]

I think we need to go back to common sense. An sign displaying some interdiction means that there is a reason behind it, and most of the time it's danger.

I don't want my kid to go near danger.

I don't care about knowing how many toes it's allowed to put in the water before it's officially considered wading or swimming by the dictionnary (or wikipedia , or an unattainable consensus on an Iternet forum, even if it's called the DIS)
what I do care about is that, if it's deemed unsafe to swim these waters, I don't want my kid in it, be it for his pinky toe.
[/QUOTE]

That's the thing -municipalities all over use "No swimming" to simply mean the lifeguard is off duty. There is no danger. If you grow up in those areas you are going to understand the sign in the context it was presented to you your whole life.

To me it is compounded by the signs also saying beach closed- which imply the beach has been open and is now closed. And certainly all the activity on it doesn't help dissuade you from that idea.

There are people who try to get by on technicalities - I'm not one of them. And I let my kids get their feet wet, gather up wet sand and walk along the water's edge.

The point of most people posting pictures of their kids is to get people to stop judging these parents

Reasonable, intelligent parents who watch their kids still let them dip a toe in because we didn't fully realize the danger.

 

[sam_gordon]

All of this word technicalities is making my head spin. So Disney puts up signs that say 'no swimming, no wading'. Does that mean you think it is OK to jump in the water because the sign did not say 'no jumping'?

Sigh. No. If there's a sign that says "no swimming/no wading" or "no water entry", that means DON'T GO IN THE WATER, whether jumping, diving, parachute jump, whatever. Again, the signs give you the LIMIT of what you can do.

 

[CPanther95]

All of this word technicalities is making my head spin. So Disney puts up signs that say 'no swimming, no wading'. Does that mean you think it is OK to jump in the water because the sign did not say 'no jumping'?

If the intent is that you don't want anyone to get in the water at all, then you just put up a sign that says to not get in the water. It's that simple.

 

[Hikergirl]

I thought your point was that where you are from "No Swimming" means no entry at all. I'm suggesting that perhaps wading was allowed, you just made the assumption that it meant you can't even stick your feet in the water.

No, my point was that people interpret No Swimming very differently. I was trying (I guess unsuccessfully LOL) to say to you that just because no wading signs are used all over the US, they aren't used everywhere in the US and where they aren't used No Swimming typically means no going into the water.

My other point (not specifically to you) was that this shouldn't be an argument, and nobody should be called names because of how they interpret those signs.

 

[mjkacmom]

All of this word technicalities is making my head spin. So Disney puts up signs that say 'no swimming, no wading'. Does that mean you think it is OK to jump in the water because the sign did not say 'no jumping'?

If it says no wading, that means you can't enter the water, regardless of how you get in. That is why there are many No Wading sign next to bodies of water that you aren't supposed to access. Is there anything in writing from Disney that states wading is not allowed at these beaches?