All of these school threads

[WebmasterAlex]

I counted 6 teacher/student threads on the front page at one point this morning. I decided to work out a plan to solve all of our school problems

1. Teachers work a 40 hour week 52 weeks a year. They get a few weeks paid vacation, sick days etc like the rest of us but the hours are like any other job.
The "extra time" is used for tutoring students, grading papers, in service (wow not send the students home to train the teachers! There is a concept!)
etc.
2. Teachers get paid like every other profesional with similar responsibilities and training. I often see teachers get compared to police/firefighters. That is an awful comparison because those jobs do not require a college degree as a condition of employement. To set the teachers pay school we should look at private sector jobs with equal educational requirements. In my mind teachers should be on the same pay scale as nurses, accountants, and other college educated professionals.
3. Schools run on a year around system so the students don't forget half of what they learned during a 3 month summer vacation. Very few kids need to be home to help on the farm which is why we have that system in the first place.

Why won't this work? Money... we all talk about wanting great schools but face reality, we are not willing to pay for it.

 

[caitycaity]

Why won't this work? Money... we all talk about wanting great schools but face reality, we are not willing to pay for it.

ayup.

there are a great number of social services that we want and depend on but are not willing to pay their actual worth imho.

good plan though, alex.

 

[Papa Deuce]

... we all talk about wanting great schools but face reality, we are not willing to pay for it.

Au Contraire...... I would be HAPPY to pay more in taxes for better education. I would agree to another 1K per year in taxes if I knew it was being well spent on education.

 

[isyne4u]

As a teacher I'm all for year round school!! I think it would be good for all of us!

Where I am we learned today that because the citizens want the property tax rate lowered (which in reality I'm not opposed to) then we would lose our raises and lose teaching positions which would mean more kids in the classes. So next we'll have those same citizens griping because there are 30 kids in a class and their kid can't get the attention they deserve.

Anyone have any good jobs for a burned out teacher ready for the real world??

tara

 

[Galahad]

I'm on the interview committee at our local H.S. to find a new Orchestra Director (I'm a parent volunteer). I was pleasantly surprised to learn that a H.S. Orchestra teacher, including they "coach-like" responsibilities, without a masters degree, will start at $42,000 here. My DS#1 has a Computer Engineering Degree and started working at Intel in California last year. When he was interviewing for jobs here he was seeing starting salaries in the mid-40's. His salary in California, adjusted for the cost of living is in the mid-40's in "Indy-Dollars". The point is, there seems to have been great improvements in the income of teachers. If a teacher can make a starting salary similar to the stating salary of an Engineer then it seems we're on the right path in that regard.

 

[WebmasterAlex]

Where I am we learned today that because the citizens want the property tax rate lowered (which in reality I'm not opposed to) then we would lose our raises and lose teaching positions which would mean more kids in the classes.
tara

ok I'm confused.... so you are saying as a teacher you think lowering property taxes is so important it's worth raising class sizes?

 

[Buckalew11]

One of my problems is with tenure. So many teachers are teaching even though they are burnt out and need to move on. Or they are teaching subjects they have no interest in or expertise in. But they are tenured and have to be placed somewhere. Who suffers? The students (& probably the poor teacher who is teaching something they don't want to.)

 

[isyne4u]

ok I'm confused.... so you are saying as a teacher you think lowering property taxes is so important it's worth raising class sizes?

no I didn't mean that. I worded it wrong. I would like to pay lower property tax just because I'm stretched thin money wise. But I don't want to see it lowered if it means I get less money and have to have more kids in the classroom. I would prefer to see smaller class sizes.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[WebmasterAlex]

I'm on the interview committee at our local H.S. to find a new Orchestra Director (I'm a parent volunteer). I was pleasantly surprised to learn that a H.S. Orchestra teacher, including they "coach-like" responsibilities, without a masters degree, will start at $42,000 here. My DS#1 has a Computer Engineering Degree and started working at Intel in California last year. When he was interviewing for jobs here he was seeing starting salaries in the mid-40's. His salary in California, adjusted for the cost of living is in the mid-40's in "Indy-Dollars". The point is, there seems to have been great improvements in the income of teachers. If a teacher can make a starting salary similar to the stating salary of an Engineer then it seems we're on the right path in that regard.

Maybe... but starting salary isn't always a fair comparison. What about a teacher with 10 years of experience compared to an engineer with the same experience

 

[caitycaity]

One of my problems is with tenure. So many teachers are teaching even though they are burnt out and need to move on. Or they are teaching subjects they have no interest in or expertise in. But they are tenured and have to be placed somewhere. Who suffers? The students (& probably the poor teacher who is teaching something they don't want to.)

i must admit i have never understood tenure in public secondary schools in this day and age. it makes sense on the college level, but at the secondary level most teachers are so tied to a curriculum and it's not like they are doing research or something.

 

[Maleficent13]

I totally and wholeheartedly support Alex's plan. And I'd pay for it too.

 

[allison443]

2. Teachers get paid like every other profesional with similar responsibilities and training. I often see teachers get compared to police/firefighters. That is an awful comparison because those jobs do not require a college degree as a condition of employement. To set the teachers pay school we should look at private sector jobs with equal educational requirements. In my mind teachers should be on the same pay scale as nurses, accountants, and other college educated professionals.

Around here, especially NYC, all teachers are in a large politically influential union (like firefighters, police officers, etc.) and that may be why they are compared to those professions, rather than being compared to other college-educated professionals, like accountants, attorneys, etc. who are non-union. Do the private sector employees you refer to have a union? I think some nurses might, but I'm really not sure?
The union negotiates things like hours, days worked, benefits, etc. In the "white collar" private sector there is no union to negotiate that for you.

ETA-I know there are many (if not most) teachers who go way above and beyond what their contract requires!!

 

[Towncrier]

Although it pains me, I vote FOR every school levy that our school board deems necessary (as long as the monies are earmarked for education and NOT for a new football stadium). Teachers salaries in our school district are a joke and we are having a hard time filling positions vacated by retiring educators.

One thing that I learned about tax levies (at least in Ohio) is that even though the tax is based on a percentage of property value, increases in property value do not translate into more money for the schools. Seems that the percentage is only used initially to set the tax rate and that increases in property value do not automatically translate into higher taxes. I was not aware of that fact and it makes voting for school levies a little bit easier.

My children have been blessed with wonderful teachers. I only pray that I will be able to say the same about my grandchildren.

 

[Katnmouse]

As teachers we rely on our union representation because they are the ONLY people willing to speak up and fight for the pittance of salary and benefits we get. Without them the school boards and county officials and citizenry seem more than willing to sail us down the river without a paddle all the while blaming the teachers and schools for everything they can. It's never anyone else's fault or responsiblilty. I've even heard some people say that if we (teachers) wanted to be respected we should have chosen a different career

I have a master's degree.....and will soon begin work on my specialist degree. Other professionals with similar education levels have a sky-high opportunity for advancements in both salary and position. In my current district of employment my salary will cap at $45,000. No matter how much education I get or if I stay for 30 years. Hmmmmm
Kat

 

[jgmklmhem]

Maybe... but starting salary isn't always a fair comparison. What about a teacher with 10 years of experience compared to an engineer with the same experience

I don't think your comparison is valid either unless we are talking government engineers. Almost all govt jobs will be at a salary lower than a private counterpart because in private industry said job usually is making a company money whereas a govt job does not bring in a profit. The trade off of course is that a many govt jobs are a great deal more stable.

 

[taximomfor4]

I'm on the interview committee at our local H.S. to find a new Orchestra Director (I'm a parent volunteer). I was pleasantly surprised to learn that a H.S. Orchestra teacher, including they "coach-like" responsibilities, without a masters degree, will start at $42,000 here. My DS#1 has a Computer Engineering Degree and started working at Intel in California last year. When he was interviewing for jobs here he was seeing starting salaries in the mid-40's. His salary in California, adjusted for the cost of living is in the mid-40's in "Indy-Dollars". The point is, there seems to have been great improvements in the income of teachers. If a teacher can make a starting salary similar to the stating salary of an Engineer then it seems we're on the right path in that regard.

Where is this teaching job located? DH would like to explore moving to another place to teach. With levies failing, etc, his job in the immediate future is depressing. He just now got to the mid-$40's with 10 yrs teaching and most of his Master's Degree credits done. In NE Ohio. Burbs of Cleveland.

 

[caitycaity]

Almost all govt jobs will be at a salary lower than a private counterpart because in private industry said job usually is making a company money whereas a govt job does not bring in a profit. The trade off of course is that a many govt jobs are a great deal more stable.

actually for a lot of jobs in the federal government that is not always true. most junior/mid level government employees make a great deal more than their counterparts in the private for profit sector.

i work at a for profit and i make about $15-20K less than most people at my level in the federal government in govt agencies/departments. however at the senior level, most people in the private sector make more than federal govt employees with the same experience/education.

 

[chris1gill]

Oh Contrare Webmaster Alex... we pay & pay & pay (and I have one of those school threads).... Our kids are at a private prep school in the Boston area... On this one occasion we are having an issue, but I'm sure our issue will be resolved.... every once in a great while we just all have an issue that we have to vent over!

So anyhow, I agree about every single thing you said (except we'll pay for the priviledge )

 

[taximomfor4]

i must admit i have never understood tenure in public secondary schools in this day and age. it makes sense on the college level, but at the secondary level most teachers are so tied to a curriculum and it's not like they are doing research or something.

I don't know about being tied to a curriculum. DH has had to start all over with lesson plans, test-making, and supplemental materials 6 times in the last 8 yrs. That is 7 times in his 10-yr teaching career. It takes many hours. Since his district did away with Department Heads last year, he (now the high man on the Social Studies totem pole) performs those functions for zero pay, without even an extra planning period. Needless to say, he spends hours. Oh, ,and he is sole designer for a brand new course for next year. Complete with finding and trying to procure textbooks for the course, naming the course, etc. He JUST got tenure. I say, good for him.

 

[FINFAN]

O.K, Bad day for me to see/respond to this thread..but here goes...our taxes are sky high...12,000+ on a 13 year 2400 sq ft house. Last tax bill over $7900 went to our school district/ teacher pension plan. I guess to me, if your plan works in that $$$$ area...go for it! I am starting to get tapped out tho when our taxes are much higher than my monthly income.
If my DH, a non-Gov Engineer BTW, pulled what my DD's math teacher just did, he's have been let go. He would not have been "PROTECTED" by a tenure bubble.
His pension is not guaranteed.
Year round school is a tough sell in many areas, not too many teachers in our district want it. They like the flexibilty of doing other work during the summer if they choose. BTW, our techers average salary is in the 60K range once tenured...right about where DH was 10 years into his unprotected career., oh, and he does not have 8-10 weeks over summer to supplement his income. However, he did not go into education...so it was a choice.

Parents say sports/extracariculars will be in jeapordy if kids are in school year round, that non-school clubs will no longer be viable...and I do agree, becasue only 10% of kids at our school actually make the school teams, the others do have to do club if they want to play.

UUUGGHHH.
It all stinks.


Pam