All of these school threads

[Galahad]

Again though, you are volunteering. Most teachers are forced one way or another to put in these extra hours with no pay and would much rather spend that time with their own children.

As for your band teachers, that is great they get paid extra for band camp--they should. But for most bandteachers it is an expectation they do this and they are not paid separatly-- it all rolls into the one piddly stipend.

But nobody on a salary gets extra for working long hours. I work a lot of long hours fairly often and am kept away from my family (or the school). If I don't like it, I can go into a different line of work. My guess is that you wouldn't have any sympathy at all for the VERY long hours DW works because she makes a lot doing it - even though it keeps her away from her family. She could just give up the $$ and get a different job. But how is it different for anybody doing any job? Teachers need to be paid more so we can keep the good ones and attract the best into the field. But making the appeal to the public by claiming abuse will eventually look like whining and not get any supporters. States and localities, IMO, often need to have higher taxes than they do - primarily for education. But you won't sell that with a guilt trip.

 

[chobie]

But nobody on a salary gets extra for working long hours. I work a lot of long hours fairly often and am kept away from my family (or the school). If I don't like it, I can go into a different line of work. My guess is that you wouldn't have any sympathy at all for the VERY long hours DW works because she makes a lot doing it - even though it keeps her away from her family. She could just give up the $$ and get a different job. But how is it different for anybody doing any job? Teachers need to be paid more so we can keep the good ones and attract the best into the field. But making the appeal to the public by claiming abuse will eventually look like whining and not get any supporters. States and localities, IMO, often need to have higher taxes than they do - primarily for education. But you won't sell that with a guilt trip.

Or teachers should just stop doing all the extra unpaid stuff. And if their unions are as strong as everyone says they are then this would be no problem. Then once everyone figures out just how much teachers are being taken advantage of and maybe they will actually pay them for what they are worth.

 

[Galahad]

Or teachers should just stop doing all the extra unpaid stuff. And if their unions are as strong as everyone says they are then this would be no problem. Then once everyone figures out just how much teachers are being taken advantage of and maybe they will actually pay them for what they are worth.

But who else in a salary can even entertain the idea of saying no to extra work? People will not buy the arguement that teachers are "getting taken advantage of" because everybody has to go through things that are just like that and aren't honored for "being taken advantage of".

 

[MinnieM3]

Yes. Remember I said including the "coach-like" responsibilities. Music teachers have a lot of night and weekend responsiblities. AND it's High School. The base for the position is $37,000 or $38,000 and then add another $4,000 or so for the other responsiblities (band or orchestra camp, middle school visits, etc.). In this district, all H.S. performing arts teachers have roughly the same "extra" stuff that a coach would have. A History teacher than is also a track coach, for example, would get some extra $$ for being the coach.

$38,000 for a teacher to start, with no experience and a bachelor's is still very high. He/She is lucky. Teachers are woefully underpaid in most areas of the country. I'm glad that's not the case in your area. So I wonder with a Master's and over 15 years experience how much this guy/gal would get. certainly at least triple over that much time with so much more education, right? $100,000? Seems like a good guess!

Also, here we have no unions and no tenure. We are on year to year contracts only. I don't think teachers are martyr like, just would like to be paid what we are worth as professionals with higher level degrees and years and years of experience in our field. I would never encourage my sons to go into education. They could not support a family on it.

 

[MouseWorshipin]

I counted 6 teacher/student threads on the front page at one point this morning. I decided to work out a plan to solve all of our school problems

1. Teachers work a 40 hour week 52 weeks a year. They get a few weeks paid vacation, sick days etc like the rest of us but the hours are like any other job.


Why won't this work? Money... we all talk about wanting great schools but face reality, we are not willing to pay for it.

Teachers get the summer off around here. My mom taught and a friend of mine teaches now. They get summers, a week at Christmas, a week at Easter, and a bunch of holidays where the government people are off, but everyone else goes in. And every once in a while, a snow day. Snow days are the BEST!

I have to disagree about the money thing. Private schools, who do a better job than public, spend LESS money per kid than the public schools do. Plus, the Cleveland schools waste tons of cash every year. They have hotel functions all the time for the administrators and their friends - whoops, sorry, their "consultants." I think the schools just need to make better use of the money they have.

 

[teacherforhi]

I have to disagree about the money thing. Private schools, who do a better job than public, spend LESS money per kid than the public schools do. Plus, the Cleveland schools waste tons of cash every year. They have hotel functions all the time for the administrators and their friends - whoops, sorry, their "consultants." I think the schools just need to make better use of the money they have.

I just wanted to make a comment about private schools. They can spend less money per student because they don't have to take every student. Have a disability? So sorry, this school isn't for you. Behavior problem? Out you go. My school gets several new students a year who have been kicked out of private school for one reason or another. Unfortunately, we have to deal with them. We can't just pass the buck onto the next person. That requires special education teachers and behavior specialists and a whole host of other positions.

 

[chobie]

Teachers get the summer off around here. My mom taught and a friend of mine teaches now. They get summers, a week at Christmas, a week at Easter, and a bunch of holidays where the government people are off, but everyone else goes in. And every once in a while, a snow day. Snow days are the BEST!

I have to disagree about the money thing. Private schools, who do a better job than public, spend LESS money per kid than the public schools do. Plus, the Cleveland schools waste tons of cash every year. They have hotel functions all the time for the administrators and their friends - whoops, sorry, their "consultants." I think the schools just need to make better use of the money they have.

Private schools make do with less money than public because they do not have to follow IDEA and many other policies mandated by the state and federal government.

I would agree with you that public school administrations are bloated though.

 

[disneyjunkie]

Wow, $42,000 to START with no experience and a bachelor's degree? I've never heard of that! Everyone will want to move to Indianapolis to teach! I had JUST reached (almost!) that mark WITH a Master's and 16 years of experience. Show me an engineer (or a nurse, or an accountant, etc.)with a Master's and 16 years under his/her belt and making $40,000. Nurses here do start at around $40,000.

Here's a link to the salary schedules for NYC public school teachers.


http://www.nycenet.edu/NR/rdonlyres...74BE4/0/SalaryScheduleteacher1105increase.pdf

Garbage collectors start off making more that teachers($50,000.00 per year).

 

[dani0622]

QUOTE from someone: Wow, $42,000 to START with no experience and a bachelor's degree? I've never heard of that!

We can't leave work if we don't feel well in the middle of the day. We can't come in to work 15 late and stay 15 minutes later to make up for it. We can't call in sick and do double work the next day or just have other co-workers pick up the slack. If we're not there, we must find a replacement or else go in, on time and ready to perform all day. We can't take vacation whenever we want to. It's dictated....always holidays or summer. END QUOTE

Sorry for not quoting the right way. Yes, in NJ many schools start recent college grads with no experience in the low 40's. Now while I know a ton of teachers and have worked for schools, I have no idea if they ever make it out of that range, if they are capped.
Also, some of these things mentioned that teachers can't do also apply to the corporate world. I can't just leave if I don't feel good. If I come in late, you bet I'll hear about it and see it on my review. I don't always get to take a lunch break, a lot of times it's just shovel the sandwich into my mouth because I have to sit at my desk and work. Sure I can call in sick but I have to seriously consider the consequences as it's frowned upon. Usually when I do I will still have to work at home or will receive numerous calls from work. I can't vacation whenever I want to. I have production deadlines and have had vacation requests turned down many times.

Working at corporations is not always as luxurious as it may seem. I think it's fair to say than any field you work in from a blue collar to white collar to whatever in between has it positives and negatives.

 

[chobie]

Do people in the corporate world also often spend their own money to buy supplies for the their jobs? Do people in the corporate world routinely pick up the tab fo co-workers and/or clients' lunches like teachers do for students who forgot to bring money to eat?

Yes, I know, no one puts a gun to their head and makes teachers spend money out of their own pockets for the students.

 

[dani0622]

Do people in the corporate world also often spend their own money to buy supplies for the their jobs? Do people in the corporate world routinely pick up the tab fo co-workers and/or clients' lunches like teachers do for students who forgot to bring money to eat?

Yes, I know, no one puts a gun to their head and makes teachers spend money out of their own pockets for the students.

Ok, I guess this was a dig at my post even though I wasn't trying to be nasty. But yes, in the corporate world I've had to spend my own money towards my job. I have to use my computer and internet to do work from home. I often have to use my printer, ink, and paper to print out work related items. Basically again, all I was trying to say was that all jobs have comparable problems. Not trying to dig at teachers at all. And not saying one type of environment is better or worse than the others.

 

[chobie]

Ok, I guess this was a dig at my post even though I wasn't trying to be nasty. But yes, in the corporate world I've had to spend my own money towards my job. I have to use my computer and internet to do work from home. I often have to use my printer, ink, and paper to print out work related items. Basically again, all I was trying to say was that all jobs have comparable problems. Not trying to dig at teachers at all. And not saying one type of environment is better or worse than the others.

It was not a dig. They were honest questions I asked. I think that teachers have a worse environment in many ways. And I do think that teachers give more of themselves and their paychecks than people in comparable jobs, which is a good thing because that is they type of people we want to be with our children. I just can't stand the constant teacher bashing. If my husband made a dollar for every parent that tried to have him fired because their little musical genious didn't make first chair or get first place in the solo and ensemble constest, or got detention, or got the grade they actaully earned --well I wouldn't be here complaining about the pay.

 

[Louise-Montreal]

It was not a dig. They were honest questions I asked. I think that teachers have a worse environment in many ways. And I do think that teachers give more of themselves and their paychecks than people in comparable jobs, which is a good thing because that is they type of people we want to be with our children. I just can't stand the constant teacher bashing. If my husband made a dollar for every parent that tried to have him fired because their little musical genious didn't make first chair or get first place in the solo and ensemble constest, or got detention, or got the grade they actaully earned --well I wouldn't be here complaining about the pay.

I think the point Chobie is trying to make, is that as teachers we are constantly shelling out money for others- our students. The kid who has no lunch, the kid who cannot afford a ticket to the play or sporting event, the kid who doesn't have enough money for a book at the book fair, the kid who uses your cell phone minutes to call home, etc. I will not even get into the amount of money that I spend for classroom supplies- pencils, pens, loose leaf etc. for the kids who do not have. I buy the 86 pack of gel pens for their writing, the novels that I know my kids will love. I bring my own laptop to school everyday because I have no computer, I pay for my ink cartridges and paper that I use. I do not know of any other profession that is expected to use their own money to pay for their own working supplies. I do not complain about my salary- but let's just say that my brother's starting salary ( who is an engineer and has the same amount of schooling that I have) was almost twice mine and I had 10 years experience.

The bottom line is that education is not a field that is valued because its profit cannot be measured in dollars and sense. Our most precious resource is our children- they are the future; yet we still underfund schools.

Find a job you love and you will never work a day in your life! I have a job I love and I work very hard every day and night (because I am still thinking about my kids at night)- but I would not have it any other way!

 

[MinnieM3]

I think the point Chobie is trying to make, is that as teachers we are constantly shelling out money for others- our students. The kid who has no lunch, the kid who cannot afford a ticket to the play or sporting event, the kid who doesn't have enough money for a book at the book fair, the kid who uses your cell phone minutes to call home, etc. I will not even get into the amount of money that I spend for classroom supplies- pencils, pens, loose leaf etc. for the kids who do not have. I buy the 86 pack of gel pens for their writing, the novels that I know my kids will love. I bring my own laptop to school everyday because I have no computer, I pay for my ink cartridges and paper that I use. I do not know of any other profession that is expected to use their own money to pay for their own working supplies. I do not complain about my salary- but let's just say that my brother's starting salary ( who is an engineer and has the same amount of schooling that I have) was almost twice mine and I had 10 years experience.

The bottom line is that education is not a field that is valued because its profit cannot be measured in dollars and sense. Our most precious resource is our children- they are the future; yet we still underfund schools.

Find a job you love and you will never work a day in your life! I have a job I love and I work very hard every day and night (because I am still thinking about my kids at night)- but I would not have it any other way!

VERY nicely said. Bravo!

 

[Dznypal]

police do need a college degree


My DS is a Milwaukee Police Officer and how it works is my son started at 19 as a police aid. He had one year of college basics before he decided to go into law enforcement. As an aid he worked 8 hrs but part of that time was school.

When he turned 21 he went on to the police academy there he learned if you want to say on the job training--guns and weapons in addition to school.

When he graduated from the academy and was an officer you have 3 years
to finish your degree in police science.

My son has 3 more credits and he'll have his degree of 60 credits!!!

So even though you can be on the force before you graduate you still need a degree in police science.

My DD is in school now in police science--she took a different route though--

she didnt go to college right out of HS so she'll graduate in next year with her degree in police science but then she has to go our and find a job.

thanks for letting me set the record straight

 

[Teacher03]

I think the point Chobie is trying to make, is that as teachers we are constantly shelling out money for others- our students. The kid who has no lunch, the kid who cannot afford a ticket to the play or sporting event, the kid who doesn't have enough money for a book at the book fair, the kid who uses your cell phone minutes to call home, etc. I will not even get into the amount of money that I spend for classroom supplies- pencils, pens, loose leaf etc. for the kids who do not have. I buy the 86 pack of gel pens for their writing, the novels that I know my kids will love. I bring my own laptop to school everyday because I have no computer, I pay for my ink cartridges and paper that I use. I do not know of any other profession that is expected to use their own money to pay for their own working supplies. I do not complain about my salary- but let's just say that my brother's starting salary ( who is an engineer and has the same amount of schooling that I have) was almost twice mine and I had 10 years experience.

The bottom line is that education is not a field that is valued because its profit cannot be measured in dollars and sense. Our most precious resource is our children- they are the future; yet we still underfund schools.

Find a job you love and you will never work a day in your life! I have a job I love and I work very hard every day and night (because I am still thinking about my kids at night)- but I would not have it any other way!

Thank you, thank you, thank you! Very well said, I agree 100%!

 

[MoniqueU]

I agree with everything you said except the year round schooling part. I have waited 7 LONG LONG LONG years for my kids to finally go on a modified traditional which is almost like traditional. The long break does them and me good. Year round can KMB

 

[christineann]

Ditto to what Dznypal said about police. My son is about to graduate with a 4 year degree (double major in criminal justice and psych). He has to complete an internship and will then go to law enforcement academy - then he starts work and plans to go to the Citadel at the same time to get his masters. Many police forces now require a 4 year degree.In Charleston, SC, if you don't have a masters, it is strongly suggested that you get one.

By the way, I am a former teacher who left the field (which I loved) because I could not support my family that way. Our current superintendent in Charleston County makes $185,000+ (only because her request for a raise that would put her over $200,000+ was voted down). She has a car allowance on top of that of $800 per month and drives a Jag. My real estate taxes are going through the roof, and most of my taxes go to the school board, which does not answer to the SC legislature for budget and spending. The money is not going to the teachers and is not allocated to the schools based on need (according to one of the school board members). It's going to the administrators and their expenses (I believe a recent conference was to Hawaii).

 

[DisneyJules]

I come from a family of teachers. The work never ends. My mom spends nearly every night parked in the living room at a tv table marking papers, putting together units. It never ends. Of course you could be boring and teach the same thing every single year, but where's the fun in that? You're right, they're poorly paid in some states. Which is really sad considering how important they are in guiding future generations.

 

[Cor44432]

"Teachers get the summer off around here. My mom taught and a friend of mine teaches now. They get summers, a week at Christmas, a week at Easter"

People do realize that teachers do not get paid for these breaks and having summers off ??