All FP machines to be removed from Animal Kingdom by next week and....

[amylevan]

Actually, my concern is that even though it is supposedly designed to allow for this, it doesn't mean the technology will work that particular day. Here's the scenario I'm dreading:

We have our FP+ lined up for AK. We wake up that morning, decide we want to go to MK instead. "No problem," I say. "I can just grab my smartphone and change our FP+ to whatever is available there today." And then you know what happens? I log into MDE, scroll through the long, slow process of changing FP+, and when I hit submit I get the dreaded BLIP RESPONSE!!! How many times have I been told there is a blip in the system and it can't access my information and to try again later. Well you know what, stupid MDE? Later doesn't work for me today!!

Sigh. Sorry, all. Just had to shake off some of the MDE uglies there for a sec. Bah humbug.

Actually, this is a valid point. It took me over an hour to make FP+ reservations with all the darn errors. I can only imagine how that will brighten my day while on vacation.

 

[delmar411]

Seriously considering not renewing our APs over this. We're local and don't schedule what day we will be where 60 days in advance. We just run over.

We are also local but we have FP+ access and it really has been fine for every ride except TSM. I have to plan3-5days in advance to get a TSM slot for us.

 

[Robo]

Has anyone heard an announcement they are pulling the fast pass machines? Or is this one big rumor?

Another "bit of information" (read, "rumor") is that this test will be conducted on Dec. 18 ONLY,
and starting the next day things will be back to the way they have been going recently
(with reg. FP machines open again.)

SO, we have some competing rumors.
(Not all that uncommon around here.)

 

[kellyg403]

Actually, this is a valid point. It took me over an hour to make FP+ reservations with all the darn errors. I can only imagine how that will brighten my day while on vacation.

I also think, that the chances of getting up and your family making a decision too late, and no fast passes left at all is pretty darn good once every one as access to the system. Unless they hold back some, the 'Math' counts. Only so many people can get the so many fp+ that are even available.

From our experience the first week of Dec, with what I would say were moderate crowds. Yes, some days seemed so crowded, but only on our Epcot and DHS days were they crowded. At 9:15 the wait for TSM was 90 minutes, and fp- was already at 7:35 pm. Yet TOT was less than 15 minutes. So, technically if FP+ were to work as I understand, after fp+ gets rolled out, the standby lines will even out and be less of a wait. Ok, how is that possible when TSM and the other two headliners are worlds apart. For grownups (or anyone over 48 in who likes roller coasters) this is a great idea. For families visiting DHS, not so good. As the one attraction geared towards families with no height restriction (headliner anyway) is TSM. Fastpass isn't the fix for that, definitely need another attraction to even things out a bit. In Epcot, TT and Soarin' are the 2 that will be interesting to see what happens. Again, the double dipping people speak about etc, doesn't really matter because every single day there is a maximum number of people getting access to fp due to ride capacity for the day. These two rides are on the same tier. That means very few people will have a fp for both rides, and will have to standby the one they don't get. The only saving grace is single rider lines. Honestly, if you want to ride rides there is a good chance you will be using that line a great deal.

The crowd calendars had that week a 4. Probably look back and see it was closer to a 5/6 week. That isn't bad really. What happens on the 10 days? IMHO, a person on their first vacation, staying offsite over 4th of July or Christmas may never get to ride TSM unless they are willing to stand in standby.

Honestly, when it is just my dh and I visiting WDW, this fp+ is just a blip on our radar. We don't often ride 'rides' We are happy with only the Safari in AK or TSM in DHS or TT in Epcot. But when we went with my dd and her family with smaller children, we had different wants and needs to figure out. And we did, with glitches throughout, manage to have a great time and still ride most things we wanted to. It just wasn't a vacation. We felt like we ran around, checking out phones to see if we could change our next day's park. Day of changes? Good luck. Well, changes to what we were hoping for anyway.

I did not read or contribute to any of the fp+ threads before our trip, simply because I wanted to go in without any preconceived notions. Really give fp+ a shot. My dh hated the concept. I am on the fence. It has value, I think it could work in certain parks. But I really can't figure out how this improves the guest experience in Epcot or DHS. Or at least our experience. And the crowds were not 10's either.

So, honestly, the real test will come for me over the actual Christmas holidays. Though this test at AK also has piqued my interest. And lets face it the TSM situation won't improve. At this time, the situation seems worse. How many people really know that you can get in usually 15 min before park opening? On our DHS day, open was 9am...and at 9:15 am you were staying all day or coming back to ride TSM (most onsite guests have this option) or standing in standby (offsite guests or tiered fp+ guests). I can't imagine staying offsite and ever paying for park hoppers again, knowing going in my chances of getting a TSM fp the day of is likely to be very late in the day. But, maybe I am over estimating how many people actually use ph to begin with. Then again, I can't imagine having to stay at DHS more than about 7 hours on any given day either as its not a park that holds our attention for long.

Personally, the final product will be interesting. I would love to see the ability to have a fp in MK and then the ability to reserve one later in the day at AK. Not 3 in one park. I would like a bit more flexibility and a lot less glitches in MDE. The current product, though not the final one, just doesn't seem to work for me personally.

Kelly

 

[bcrook]

We are also local but we have FP+ access and it really has been fine for every ride except TSM. I have to plan3-5days in advance to get a TSM slot for us.

If off site guests stay on the system where they can only access once they get to the park, local ap holders should continue to enjoy night before scheduling. As long as the ap holder has stayed in a Disney hotel to open up the privilege of booking ahead, and as long as that privilege remains intact.

That seems like a lot of questions to be gambling the price of a renewal on.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

Ok, I get the math everyone is mentioning. Makes sense. But, if the goal is to get everyone out of line and into the stores, is it possible that they would dramatically increase the number of fastpasses so that more people have a return time? That way standby is shorter and more people are shopping? Of course, in this scenario, the standby wait could be quite long even with a short line because then they are expecting most riders to ride with a fastpass. Seems like this could be one possible scenario.

They might do that to increase the perception that people are getting coveted fastpass spots -- more people get FP for rides like TSMM and everyone gets more FP.

However, more people going through the fastpass line each hour would make the fastpass line longer and, therefore, slower. To get everyone through, they would have to decrease the number of people being taken from the standby line, which would also slow down the standby line. I assume that the current number of fastpasses given out per ride were calculated to minimize wait times as much as possible, because Disney has always wanted people out of line and in the shops.

 

[bcrook]

Another "bit of information" (read, "rumor") is that this test will be conducted on Dec. 18 ONLY,
and starting the next day things will be back to the way they have been going recently
(with reg. FP machines open again.)

SO, we have some competing rumors.
(Not all that uncommon around here.)

This is the most interesting post on this thread for me.

Well, and Laketravis earnings summary from Disney.

Back to the rumor - if this plays out as mentioned, the 18th of December will forever be remembered as "kiosk day".

 

[stormtracker]

I'm sure every Disney blogger in the area will be at the kiosks, camera ready.

 

[amylevan]

I'm sure every Disney blogger in the area will be at the kiosks, camera ready.

Good.

I've never wanted to be a fly on the wall as bad as I do on Wednesday. I want to be in AK without actually being on vacation in AK. (Which makes me feel sort of guilty, because I don't want people to have to deal with this on their vacation either....)

 

[doconeill]

They might do that to increase the perception that people are getting coveted fastpass spots -- more people get FP for rides like TSMM and everyone gets more FP.

However, more people going through the fastpass line each hour would make the fastpass line longer and, therefore, slower. To get everyone through, they would have to decrease the number of people being taken from the standby line, which would also slow down the standby line. I assume that the current number of fastpasses given out per ride were calculated to minimize wait times as much as possible, because Disney has always wanted people out of line and in the shops.

If they do things correctly, in general the Fastpass line shouldn't actually slow down, as the Fastpass line should never exceed the capacity of the attraction.

It's easier to think of it like this...the Fastpass line is actually the primary line, and the standby line is to fill in the "holes" - the seats left over when there is a gap of people in the Fastpass line. Hence why it is called "standby".

If the percentage of FP guests to the total capacity is relatively low, then the standby line gets utilized a lot, and it moves faster. But that means not a lot of guests get to take advantage of Fastpass.

As you increase the percentage, the standby line slows down because there are fewer holes. But more people take advantage.

The "ideal" is that 100% of the capacity is given to Fastpass, and no one at all waits in line. However, that's not really achievable. There are a variety of reasons an attraction doesn't reach it's theoretical (or even its "practical" operational capacity - maintenance issues, load issues, etc.) Plus, you have plenty of guests who just aren't going to use Fastpass for whatever reason.

In addition, because you allow flexibility in the use of Fastpass - guests have an hour in which to return - not a specific time - you can't insure a perfect distribution of guests going through the Fastpass line. There will be clumps. So you do end up with delays in the Fastpass line (usually temporary), and the standby line stalls (but then will speed up accordingly later). As you increase the percentage of Fastpasses, you aggravate that situation more.

So the flexibility of the system is really its own worst enemy.

 

[doconeill]

I'm sure every Disney blogger in the area will be at the kiosks, camera ready.

And there will be diametrically opposed opinions on it...there will be posts about the "disasterous" implementation due to the long lines, glitches, etc...and there will be posts about how great it was for off-site guests to not have to run around the park...

 

[kellyg403]

So the flexibility of the system is really its own worst enemy.

Yes, for sure. Unless Disney has something up their sleeves besides tiering, which adds little overall flexibility in DHS or Epcot, I can't see at this point, how this adds to overall flexibility.

Kelly

 

[Coach81]

Three days....

 

[WillAustin]

So the flexibility of the system is really its own worst enemy.

Disney is going to be forced to choose who they risk upsetting most. They can offer too few slots for advance FP+, have too few held back for short notice and same day FP+, or allow even less standby riders per hour. The math shows the choice has to be made. Unfortunately, I think we will see some mixture of the 3 in the middle that gives most people a mediocre outcome.

 

[kellyg403]

Disney is going to be forced to choose who they risk upsetting most. They can offer too few slots for advance FP+, have too few held back for short notice and same day FP+, or allow even less standby riders per hour. The math shows the choice has to be made. Unfortunately, I think we will see some mixture of the 3 in the middle that gives most people a mediocre outcome.

I also think this test at AK will also highlight whether getting to AK at park opening will be the true answer.

For example, I get to the kiosk day of and reserve my fp for the day. EE is late in the day while Safari is in a few hours. Its park opening, less busy, so I am able to ride all the rides I want to WITHOUT fp because it is early in the day and usually less busy, less wait in standby. Do I stay at the park and redo those rides I have fp+ for? Do I cancel while still in the park? What if 2 hours in someone gets sick, a meltdown..a host of issues that alleviates my ability to use the fp I have secured for my family. So do I wait in another line if my smartphone won't connect to MDE to cancel? Or do I say the heck with it I tried to cancel and go home. Leaving my fp+ intact and unused.

I am certain the model has built in answers for some of these issues. But, I can't wrap my head around it being a convenient answer for anyone.

Kelly

 

[ArwenMarie]

This DAK test just seems so odd to me. If the goal is to start bringing more and more people on, why don't they just start by bringing all APs on (not just via the loophole with the resort stay)?

This test seems to indicate to me that there are going to be three groups of customers...onsite, APs, and offsite who don't have APs.

 

[BenbowInn]

We went to AK three times while we were at WDW a couple of weeks ago. Every time we sat down with our ice cream or pretzels we would count the number of people who walked by wearing MB's and those that didn't.

It seemed to be pretty even - 50/50. For every person who was wearing a MB, somebody wasn't.

Some people might have taken it off and put it in their pocket but that is still a lot of off-site guests.

Really? We were hard pressed to find people NOT wearing MBs last week and joked with each other that we must be the only offsite guests in the parks.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Disney is going to be forced to choose who they risk upsetting most. They can offer too few slots for advance FP+, have too few held back for short notice and same day FP+, or allow even less standby riders per hour. The math shows the choice has to be made. Unfortunately, I think we will see some mixture of the 3 in the middle that gives most people a mediocre outcome.

I think they have already said they are not holding any back for same-day.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

This DAK test just seems so odd to me. If the goal is to start bringing more and more people on, why don't they just start by bringing all APs on (not just via the loophole with the resort stay)?

This test seems to indicate to me that there are going to be three groups of customers...onsite, APs, and offsite who don't have APs.

I think you're exactly backwards. On the 18th, there will be TWO groups, onsite and offsite/AP. Adding just AP wouldn't be enough people on a random Wednesday for a test.

 

[BenbowInn]

Just because they may have done it before with respect to FPs, I don't see why Disney should have any obligation to treat offsite guests exactly the same as onsite guests. How shocked could you be if the final version of FP+ gives offsite guests fewer reservations or a later window date?

In this era of loyalty programs, it's pretty common for one set of customers to get a different deal than others.

Well Disney World is a theme park and the main thing is rides, so it's not exactly right for everyone to pay $90+ for admission and have only onsite guests actually able to ride rides without insane waits. If Disney gave FP+ perks to onsite guests then they would lose lots of business from offsite people.

A loyalty program from say a restaurant or department store giving you random coupons or whatever, is far different than paying an insane amount to enter a park and not being able to actually ride anything. The difference between Disney and Universal is the amount of resorts and onsite guests Universal has pales in comparison to Disney World.

Also, paying to stay onsite gives you perks at whatever specific resort you are staying at. I don't see what a resort has to do with the parks...the two are completely different and staying onsite shouldn't extend into better park benefits unless they want to start giving offsite guests discounted tickets to make up for lack of FP availability. After all, lodging and dining does not matter, what matters is that we all pay the same price to enter the parks and should have the same opportunity to experience the parks.