ALL BEACHES CLOSED

[Bella the Ball 360]

You are really over reacting. First, this is a horrible accident but accidents happen each and every day. How would you address your kids should you pass a car accident with fatalities? How do you put the evening news in perspective for your kids? As for the alligators, come on. The lake is huge and is located in the middle of swamp and woodlands. There is no way anyone can effectively control the numbers and sizes of the Gators in an area this size. I'm not trying to come across as mean, but this is no different than a shark attack. It's a horrible accident, but I can't see how anyone is at fault.

Maybe you are not trying to come across as mean but frankly that is the way it comes across. As far as this being no one's fault well I disagree completely. I just watched the press conference and Disney IS at fault. First, since it is a man made body of water and does not happen naturally therefore, they are at fault according to the lawyers furthermore, there were no posted signs stating that there could be alligators in the lagoon or any other man made body of water on Disney. Just because Floridians know that a standing body of water most likely contains 'gators' that does not mean others do! Disney has fostered the life in a bubble concept .....nothing bad happens at the happiest place on earth, but it does! They have created a false sense of security and most people let their guard down, I think, because they TRULY believe that a huge money making conglomerate 'cares" about them. Sadly, the world has changed and unfortunately naivete and innocence are a thing of the past. I could deal with the evil that was wrought at the Orlando night club because the perpetrator set out to do evil but, to me this smacks all too much of the novel Jaws where they did not want to close the beaches because they would lose money. As I said in an earlier post my experience witnessing a violent incident at Disney resulted in a NY cop taking down the perp while Disney CMs walked around and told people to move because it was "not the image Disney wanted to portray" (direct quote).

 

[Nancyg56]

Maybe you are not trying to come across as mean but frankly that is the way it comes across. As far as this being no one's fault well I disagree completely. I just watched the press conference and Disney IS at fault. First, since it is a man made body of water and does not happen naturally therefore, they are at fault according to the lawyers furthermore, there were no posted signs stating that there could be alligators in the lagoon or any other man made body of water on Disney. Just because Floridians know that a standing body of water most likely contains 'gators' that does not mean others do! Disney has fostered the life in a bubble concept .....nothing bad happens at the happiest place on earth, but it does! They have created a false sense of security and most people let their guard down, I think, because they TRULY believe that a huge money making conglomerate 'cares" about them. Sadly, the world has changed and unfortunately naivete and innocence are a thing of the past. I could deal with the evil that was wrought at the Orlando night club because the perpetrator set out to do evil but, to me this smacks all too much of the novel Jaws where they did not want to close the beaches because they would lose money. As I said in an earlier post my experience witnessing a violent incident at Disney resulted in a NY cop taking down the perp while Disney CMs walked around and told people to move because it was "not the image Disney wanted to portray" (direct quote).

I do not want to be rude, but you watched TV and because some lawyer pundits stated that Disney is at fault makes it so? I think that at this time, no one knows who is at fault, what damages if any, will be awarded, adn how this tragedy will impact how theme parks and resorts move forward in the future. There are man made bodies of water. And water features all over FLorida, and as many times as I have stayed in motels, hotels and escorts in the area, not one has advised me to beware the alligators. I think that any court that weighs in on this wil be setting a precedent that will ripple in many directions, so I doubt that liability wil be assigned lightly. And certainly not because cable news channel talking lawyers determined less than 24 hours after the accident who would pay.

As to the "direct" quote, I am an admin on our local town forum and the "direct" quotes that are spattered all over it as fact woudl curl your hair. I do nto doubt someone said it was said, but given how people embellish, I would not count that comment as anything but anecdotal chatter.

 

[rteetz]

Maybe you are not trying to come across as mean but frankly that is the way it comes across. As far as this being no one's fault well I disagree completely. I just watched the press conference and Disney IS at fault. First, since it is a man made body of water and does not happen naturally therefore, they are at fault according to the lawyers furthermore, there were no posted signs stating that there could be alligators in the lagoon or any other man made body of water on Disney. Just because Floridians know that a standing body of water most likely contains 'gators' that does not mean others do! Disney has fostered the life in a bubble concept .....nothing bad happens at the happiest place on earth, but it does! They have created a false sense of security and most people let their guard down, I think, because they TRULY believe that a huge money making conglomerate 'cares" about them. Sadly, the world has changed and unfortunately naivete and innocence are a thing of the past. I could deal with the evil that was wrought at the Orlando night club because the perpetrator set out to do evil but, to me this smacks all too much of the novel Jaws where they did not want to close the beaches because they would lose money. As I said in an earlier post my experience witnessing a violent incident at Disney resulted in a NY cop taking down the perp while Disney CMs walked around and told people to move because it was "not the image Disney wanted to portray" (direct quote).

Everyone is at fault in different ways really. It's a man made body of water but it's connect to natural bodies of water as well. It really should be common knowledge that any large body of water in Florida, from lakes, ponds, retention ponds, and pools could attract alligators. When you travel to Florida you should know those risks. Yes there is a bubble concept but you can't say this happens all of the time. The last time a gator attacked on property was in the 80s. In the last 50 years in the US only 26 alligator related deaths.

Disney routinely is watching the lakes, taking alligators out, and getting rid of them. You can't catch them all though there just is no way to do that.

This is not a money problem. There is nothing that has caused them to close the beaches before so why would they? Something like this attack is not a common occurrence.

 

[J'Adore Disney]

Seven Seas Lagoon is man-made, Bay Lake is NOT! These two bodies of water connect - figure it out!!!

 

[Bella the Ball 360]

I do not want to be rude, but you watched TV and because some lawyer pundits stated that Disney is at fault makes it so? I think that at this time, no one knows who is at fault, what damages if any, will be awarded, adn how this tragedy will impact how theme parks and resorts move forward in the future. There are man made bodies of water. And water features all over FLorida, and as many times as I have stayed in motels, hotels and escorts in the area, not one has advised me to beware the alligators. I think that any court that weighs in on this wil be setting a precedent that will ripple in many directions, so I doubt that liability wil be assigned lightly. And certainly not because cable news channel talking lawyers determined less than 24 hours after the accident who would pay.

As to the "direct" quote, I am an admin on our local town forum and the "direct" quotes that are spattered all over it as fact woudl curl your hair. I do nto doubt someone said it was said, but given how people embellish, I would not count that comment as anything but anecdotal chatter.

Point of clarification not anecdotal chatter I am an eye witness to the "direct" quote. I am the one reporting it in the first person. You
may not WANT to come across as rude just like the other poster did not want to come across as "mean" but you did. When you say, "who would pay" that is not the crux of the matter if you refer to a monetary settlement or perhaps I am just confused by the ambiguity of the statement. One more point of clarification,perhaps you have not been advised of alligators but having stayed in Sanibel several times the hotels there always make guests aware of the dangers of alligators. In addition, the beaches in Clearwater advise 'beware of rattle snakes' and these are natural occurrences. Lest you correct my punctuation,please be advised that I am having trouble with the keyboard on my computer.

 

[HopperFan]

The fact that these bodies of water on WDW property are called beaches is disturbing and misleading. Even more disturbing is the lack of signage warning guests that alligators may be lurking in the waters. Despite the "no swimming signs," I've read ignorant reviews from guests complaining about not being able to swim in the lakes.

I would never even think to dip my pinkie toe into these dirty lakes!!! There is a reason why Peter Werner concludes the DISUnplugged Podcast shows with his famous words "stay away from the damn lakes!" And now, the world is going to know why!

Bodies of water and Beaches are two completely different things. Seven Seas, Bay Lake and the rest are all both of these things.

A beach is "an expanse of sand or pebbles along a shore" and comes with no description of water access or use. No implied swimming, wading etc. Nothing disturbing or misleading here.

Am I being picky, yes, but that is because so many posts seem to keep trying to cloud the issues, stir the pot and complicate it.

Obviously there are plenty that seem to need more signage to understand that No Swimming is probably due to danger in the water. I expect in a short time and before they re-open the beaches we will see lots of signs and eventually landscape designs that keep guests from ignoring such signs.

Seven Seas Lagoon is man-made, Bay Lake is NOT! These two bodies of water connect - figure it out!!!

I have no idea what this post means???

Bay Lake was there, Seven Seas was built by Disney and they connected them both. There are also several canals and waterways that connect to them as well. I think it's safe to say since construction in 1970 they have shared the same water.

 

[mickeysgirl17]

I do not feel as though Disney is at fault in this situation at all...however, I do feel as though the signs should of had an alligator warning on them. The news says that Disney does see alligators from time to time and they do get out there and get rid of them, but if they are out there, shouldn't the signs have a little bit of a stronger warning? Im almost certain that new signs and warnings will go up. I also feel like they should have regular security patrols going around to make sure guests are following these rules. Something needs to change for sure. More than likely, the baby snatched up last night happened very fast when he went into the water. I don't know if the parents allowed him to thinking the water is safe or if he kind of wandered into the water and the alligator took him within seconds before the parents even realized. 2 year olds are fast and they wander around but I do know the parents were close and are not at fault in any way. Sad to see some people posting online how these parents were not watching their child. These poor people just witnessed their baby boy being dragged out into the water inside the mouth of a huge gator. They risked their own lives for the child. Some people have no compassion.

 

[zebsterama]

I think fault is a strong word - but I believe Disney is at least partially liable. They could / should have done much more to prevent this tragedy. At the very least warning signs about the potential gator risk.

Had the child drowned, that would be one thing; drowning as a result of a gator attack is another issue IMO.

My heart goes out to the family - this would haunt anyone for life ... the added insult to injury - the Disney brand is EVRYWHERE / UNAVOIDABLE - it will be a constant reminder of this tragedy. Horrible / torturous.

So very sad.

 

[cruisingtwins]

I for one would not be even a little bit sad if all beaches are closed permanently.

 

[mrs moon]

Disney ARE at fault ,they allowed innocent families on to a beach at dusk ,showing cartoons knowing there were alligators in the lagoon!!! i have seen children for yrs paddling right there without being told to stop!!If someone were to smoke in the wrong spot a cm would be there in seconds telling them to move!! Poor,poor family ,for them Disney wasn't their dream holiday!!!

 

[Magic Fanatic]

The fact that these bodies of water on WDW property are called beaches is disturbing and misleading. Even more disturbing is the lack of signage warning guests that alligators may be lurking in the waters. Despite the "no swimming signs," I've read ignorant reviews from guests complaining about not being able to swim in the lakes.

I would never even think to dip my pinkie toe into these dirty lakes!!! There is a reason why Peter Werner concludes the DISUnplugged Podcast shows with his famous words "stay away from the damn lakes!" And now, the world is going to know why!

What else can you call them other than beaches? That is what they are, beaches.

Using your logic, if a guest is walking across a green space and gets bit by a water moccasin, is Disney at fault because there was no "look out for snakes sign"? Come on this was a horrible accident where no one was at fault. Sh&! sometimes happens where it was no one's fault.

 

[Magic Fanatic]

Disney ARE at fault ,they allowed innocent families on to a beach at dusk ,showing cartoons knowing there were alligators in the lagoon!!! i have seen children for yrs paddling right there without being told to stop!!If someone were to smoke in the wrong spot a cm would be there in seconds telling them to move!! Poor,poor family ,for them Disney wasn't their dream holiday!!!

Cast members always ask guests to stay out of the water when the see them in the water. You seem to be stretching things a bit, but hey, maybe you did see it.

 

[rteetz]

Disney ARE at fault ,they allowed innocent families on to a beach at dusk ,showing cartoons knowing there were alligators in the lagoon!!! i have seen children for yrs paddling right there without being told to stop!!If someone were to smoke in the wrong spot a cm would be there in seconds telling them to move!! Poor,poor family ,for them Disney wasn't their dream holiday!!!

You can't place full blame on Disney. This isn't something you expect to happen. Alligator attacks are rare.

 

[Magic Fanatic]

I for one would not be even a little bit sad if all beaches are closed permanently.

Really? They are already posted no swimming, what are you proposing? Drain the lake?

 

[rteetz]

I think fault is a strong word - but I believe Disney is at least partially liable. They could / should have done much more to prevent this tragedy. At the very least warning signs about the potential gator risk.

Had the child drowned, that would be one thing; drowning as a result of a gator attack is another issue IMO.

My heart goes out to the family - this would haunt anyone for life ... the added insult to injury - the Disney brand is EVRYWHERE / UNAVOIDABLE - it will be a constant reminder of this tragedy. Horrible / torturous.

So very sad.

Of course Disney is some what liable but people are saying it is all Disneys fault and that's just not true.

 

[rteetz]

I for one would not be even a little bit sad if all beaches are closed permanently.

What would you do instead?

 

[Magic Fanatic]

Maybe you are not trying to come across as mean but frankly that is the way it comes across. As far as this being no one's fault well I disagree completely. I just watched the press conference and Disney IS at fault. First, since it is a man made body of water and does not happen naturally therefore, they are at fault according to the lawyers furthermore, there were no posted signs stating that there could be alligators in the lagoon or any other man made body of water on Disney. Just because Floridians know that a standing body of water most likely contains 'gators' that does not mean others do! Disney has fostered the life in a bubble concept .....nothing bad happens at the happiest place on earth, but it does! They have created a false sense of security and most people let their guard down, I think, because they TRULY believe that a huge money making conglomerate 'cares" about them. Sadly, the world has changed and unfortunately naivete and innocence are a thing of the past. I could deal with the evil that was wrought at the Orlando night club because the perpetrator set out to do evil but, to me this smacks all too much of the novel Jaws where they did not want to close the beaches because they would lose money. As I said in an earlier post my experience witnessing a violent incident at Disney resulted in a NY cop taking down the perp while Disney CMs walked around and told people to move because it was "not the image Disney wanted to portray" (direct quote).

Sorry you feel I was mean to you, but that's life on a message board. The problem is today every time something tragic happens many people (such as yourself) want to assign blame. Disney World has been open since the 70's and never has there been anything like this, yet you feel there should be signs warning about a problem that had never been experienced before. Comparing it to Jaws? That is ridiculous! Disney is the most risk adverse company in the world. This was an accident, and the adult guests (if it is confirmed the kid was splashing in the water) have some responsibility here because, while the specific warning for gators may not be posted, there is no question that there are signs to stay out of the water.

 

[zebsterama]

Cast members always ask guests to stay out of the water when the see them in the water. You seem to be stretching things a bit, but hey, maybe you did see it.

For what it's worth, on our last Dis trip to BCV (I think 3 years ago) there was a gator hanging out in the creek (?); between the parking lot and the hotel (where you cross over the bridge).

People were gathered around, taking pictures, checking it out etc. CMs FOR SURE knew it was there/what was going on - there was no sense of urgency to get people away from there - tape off the area ... etc.

I'm from Canada ... my first reaction was 'cool' ... after thinking about it (my kids and wife were present) as we quickly moved on, I kept thnking, 'shouldn't something be happening/shouldn't someone be doing something ... that seems kind of dangerous.'

The gator was there an hour or two later when we went back to our car / out for dinner. Again no CMs no tape etc.

I hadn't given it a second thought, until today.

 

[mrs moon]

I think signs saying "no swimming " is a bit different to "Hey dont even stand nr the edge or a Alligator might attack you!!!!

 

[rteetz]

I think signs saying "no swimming " is a bit different to "Hey dont even stand nr the edge or a Alligator might attack you!!!!

Alligator attacks are not common.