All Aboard Florida - New Train Service 2017

[LittleDreamer]

This just feels like another entry in the long Florida train saga. In 2000 Florida voted to build a High Speed Rail between Miami and Orlando then to Tampa. That was over turned in 2004. In 2012ish Gov. Scott turned down federal cash to build a train between Tampa and Orlando. Now we have another Train being built. I'm unsure on the potential success of this project. In South Florida, which they expect to make 64mil/year from, the Tri Rail already exists and is a popular choice for lower income and frugal travelers. As for the south Florida to Orlando leg, at the current listed price point it seems high. Especially since I have a sneaking suspicion that they might try baggage fees. I guess what the real deciding factor is if they are building their own rail tracks. Passenger trains, such as Amtrak and Tri Rail operating on freight rails and thus need to pay and get permission to use them. If they build their own and then can strike a deal with Amtrak it might be good.

 

[mikebb]

Agree with others' comments about the cost. We live in South Florida and I've looked into Amtrak as a "fun" way for our family of 3 to travel to WDW, but haven't been able to justify the price - ~$150 for 3 roundtrip Amtrak tickets + cab fares to and from station/hotel, vs ~$50 in gas/tolls for the drive. I can't imagine shelling out more than twice the Amtrak price for "high speed" rail. What is high speed anyhow? I've read 3 hours 15 mins from Miami-Orlando for AAF, driving from WPB takes less than 3 hours on the Turnpike, and Amtrak advertises 3 1/2 hours from WPB, so it's not like these new trains will get you there in half the time.

 

[mcjaco]

Agree with others' comments about the cost. We live in South Florida and I've looked into Amtrak as a "fun" way for our family of 3 to travel to WDW, but haven't been able to justify the price - ~$150 for 3 roundtrip Amtrak tickets + cab fares to and from station/hotel, vs ~$50 in gas/tolls for the drive. I can't imagine shelling out more than twice the Amtrak price for "high speed" rail. What is high speed anyhow? I've read 3 hours 15 mins from Miami-Orlando for AAF, driving from WPB takes less than 3 hours on the Turnpike, and Amtrak advertises 3 1/2 hours from WPB, so it's not like these new trains will get you there in half the time.

They were discussing, and had grant money, for a high speed line to be constructed. 200 mph and higher. The governor, like Scott Walker in Wisconsin, turned the grants down, and the lines (Orlando to Miami, and Chicago to Madison), were ground to a halt.

 

[tlmadden73]

Trains used to be all over the place ... then cars got affordable and more convenient t get places and guess what? They started tearing down train lines left and right (a lot of them that used to be popular passenger routes are now bike paths).

Places like WDW exist BECAUSE of cars and the ease for families to drive down I-95 to get there.

Even if there was a train that left my city and went straight to Orlando I wouldn't consider it .. why?

1) The cost for a family would be as much (if not more than a flight) (definitely more than driving (IF you already own a nice traveling vehicle)
2) It will take much longer than flying and usually longer than driving (because of stops, inefficient routes, etc.)
3) More than likely you'd have to switch trains to get to your final destination.
4) Trains don't run very often at all and you usually have like 1 or 2 options of when to leave (usually at awfully inconvenient times (like the middle of the night)
5) I need to figure out transportation TO the train station and then FROM the train station.
6) I am then stuck at my destination with no car to get around/go shopping, go to another theme park/attraction. So I would need to possible rent a car or pay for other forms of transit. (same issue if you fly, but airports have rental car agencies, most train stations do not).

So typical "costs more for less service" type of proposition. Sure the scenery is great usually .. and very relaxing .. but just not worth it on a regular basis.

Basically I would go on a train for the 'entertainment' factor ... but not regularly.

 

[tcherjen]

As someone who would not dream of driving to Miami, this would make visiting it do-able for my family.

 

[mcjaco]

Trains used to be all over the place ... then cars got affordable and more convenient t get places and guess what? They started tearing down train lines left and right (a lot of them that used to be popular passenger routes are now bike paths).

There's quite a bit more to it than this.

 

[Epcotfan64]

I read posts about the justification of taking a train when one can take a car instead. Can one say the same thing about a flight between Orlando and Panama City on Silver Airways? Southwest has the same route.

Herb Kelleher, founder of Southwest, lobbied Texas lawmakers in the early 1990s to reject Texas TGV, a high-speed rail system that would have connected the 4 major Texas cities. I thought capitalism was all about welcoming competition, not getting rid of it.

 

[Jake]

Like different train / monorail Story's have been around for more then 40 years. And as today non has ever got near the started. Have to see it to believe it. I think just another story.

 

[writerguyfl]

Like different train / monorail Story's have been around for more then 40 years. And as today non has ever got near the started. Have to see it to believe it. I think just another story.

Construction has already begun on all three of the South Florida stations, with demolition of existing structures starting back in November 2014.

Currently, the foundation for the Miami station is currently being laid. Road closures and construction at the Fort Lauderdale station have just begun. In West Palm Beach, All Aboard Florida has received approval to build a mixed-use tower (mostly residential) as part of the station.

Miami: http://realtime.blog.palmbeachpost....uction-to-begin-on-miami-station-this-summer/
Fort Lauderdale: http://www.bizjournals.com/southflo...oard-florida-preparing-major-development.html
West Palm: http://www.bizjournals.com/southflo...oard-florida-reveals-size-of-residential.html

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Then presents the question of what is next?.....a monorail, expanded train or pods maybe........into the city, Uni and Disney???? It was reported when tis line was first proposed. Disney was ready offered land to build 2 stations if they agree on the type of system. This is all a good deal more likely with the flights and trains in MCO.

AKK

 

[writerguyfl]

Then presents the question of what is next?.....a monorail, expanded train or pods maybe........into the city, Uni and Disney???? It was reported when tis line was first proposed. Disney was ready offered land to build 2 stations if they agree on the type of system. This is all a good deal more likely with the flights and trains in MCO.

The train with stations on Disney property is not happening. That was a tax-payer funded line that Governor Scott killed. (LittleDreamer commented on that earlier in this thread.)

There is a separate privately-funded Maglev train that if built will connect Orlando International Airport (MCO) with International Drive. Phase one will focus on I-Drive by connecting select hotels, Pointe Orlando, and the Convention Center. Phase two will extend the line to The Florida Mall and finally to MCO.

I know much more about All Aboard Florida (I hate that name) because I'm within walking distance of the Fort Lauderdale station. But, here is a brief online article about the Maglev project:

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/blog/2015/04/exclusive-7-details-on-new-airport-to-i-drive.html

Both All Aboard Florida and this Maglev train will end at the intermodal transportation center that is being built at MCO. I would assume that once complete, Disney will move their Magical Express operations there.

Although I can't find a source, I believe that the final phase of the Maglev would be line from MCO to Disney World. However, that's a blue sky idea. Whereas the I-Drive-MCO line already has governmental approval.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

The train with stations on Disney property is not happening. That was a tax-payer funded line that Governor Scott killed. (LittleDreamer commented on that earlier in this thread.)

There is a separate privately-funded Maglev train that if built will connect Orlando International Airport (MCO) with International Drive. Phase one will focus on I-Drive by connecting select hotels, Pointe Orlando, and the Convention Center. Phase two will extend the line to The Florida Mall and finally to MCO.

I know much more about All Aboard Florida (I hate that name) because I'm within walking distance of the Fort Lauderdale station. But, here is a brief online article about the Maglev project:

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/blog/2015/04/exclusive-7-details-on-new-airport-to-i-drive.html

Both All Aboard Florida and this Maglev train will end at the intermodal transportation center that is being built at MCO. I would assume that once complete, Disney will move their Magical Express operations there.

Although I can't find a source, I believe that the final phase of the Maglev would be line from MCO to Disney World. However, that's a blue sky idea. Whereas the I-Drive-MCO line already has governmental approval.

All good points, but things change........we will see what happens in the future.


AKK

 

[dinolounger]

The only real useful train system in the US is the NE corridor commuter rail.

The N.E. corridor is the only Amtrak route that is profitable. Every other part of the system loses money, which has to be made up for by taxpayers. And per points made earlier, the N.E. corridor makes money because it meets the three critical criteria for profitable train travel that have been found all or the world: heavily, heavily travelled routes of 200 miles or less between major urban centers.

Which is why the Orlando to Miami route -- if the forty mile of new track it will require is ever built -- is destined to be a financial failure. There isn't enough traffic to justify anything near 16 trains a day and the distance is too far (235 miles) to effectively compete with cars or flights.

This is just another pipe dream of the force-people-out-of-private-vehicles crowd.

 

[mcjaco]

This is a really cool tool for Amtrak routes, ridership and costs. Albeit from 2013.

http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/2013/AmtrakRoutes

 

[Douglas Dubh]

Herb Kelleher, founder of Southwest, lobbied Texas lawmakers in the early 1990s to reject Texas TGV, a high-speed rail system that would have connected the 4 major Texas cities. I thought capitalism was all about welcoming competition, not getting rid of it.

Free market capitalism is about encouraging fair competition. Crony capitalism is about getting the government to support a favored business over a competitor's. Was the TGV a fair competitor to Southwest, or was it going to be unfairly subsidized by the government?

 

[pugdog]

Something else to think of with this too is it is going to the major cruise terminal cities in FL too. Could be a good way to get cruise passengers around too.

 

[writerguyfl]

Something else to think of with this too is it is going to the major cruise terminal cities in FL too. Could be a good way to get cruise passengers around too.

Indeed. Both the Fort Lauderdale and Miami stations are very close of their respective ports. If Universal is smart, they will partner with a major cruise line to create packages. Fly into Orlando. Stay at Universal. Take the train to South Florida. Take a cruise. Fly out of FLL/MIA.

Disney Cruise Line could also use the train, as they now have cruises departing from the Port of Miami.

 

[whiterhino]

The argument that our country is too big is a bad one. China is larger, they are building them. Our problem is we build them half arze by calling 120mph high speed. Meanwhile there is technology to go 350mph safely. Our infrastructure is crumbling. We have too many cars on unmaintained roads & too many bridges ready to collapse. I live in Massachusetts & wanted to take the train to Disney last time we went. It took so long I couldn't do it, we drove instead. I want to be able to take trains, but I want modern high speed trains!

 

[LeeAndRobin]

The argument that our country is too big is a bad one. China is larger, they are building them.

I think you'll find that the potential number of riders in China is, well, astronomical compared to the number of potential riders in the US, even IF the trains were built such that they were fast and cheap to ride. That, combined with the many regulations that anyone building a rail line in the US would have to jump through compared to building one in China means railways will never again be an important factor in transportation in the US, except in very limited markets where they can be made profitable and economical. There are reasons why passenger rail mostly went away in the US, and these reasons have nothing to do with conspiracy theories involving GM or Ford or any other automakers.