AKV vs. BLT - DVC Purchase Question

[denegate]

We are considering a DVC membership. Can anyone give me any reason to buy one resort over the other? Is there an advantage to either one for a first time DVC member? I'm referring to Animal Kingdom and Bay Lake Tower since those are the two we are considering.

 

[tjkraz]

The biggest reason is because it's the resort you wish to stay at most. You get a 4-month booking advantage at your Home resort and that can be critical during certain times of the year and for smaller categories of rooms.

Aside from that, I'd pick BLT every time due to the lower dues, longer contract and overall appeal of the destination (personal.) Dues at BLT are over $1 per point cheaper than AKV. On a 200 pt contract you'll save more than $200 per year...year after year.

AKV is also a larger resort (about 50% larger) meaning that as a BLT owner you have a much better shot of getting into AKV than vice versa.

Success booking other resorts at 7 months will vary, but owning at BLT vs. AKV will have absolutely no impact on that.

 

[DVCGeek]

First off, make sure you understand the product and do your homework in general. There are two main factors with your home resort: Cost of dues and home resort priority booking; not sure if you are familiar with those or not. But assuming you are-

Because of the longer contract and lower annual dues I think BLT is a better deal in the long run. However, AKV is cheaper to purchase up front, especially if you do resale.

The best general advice is to buy someplace you would be OK with staying at every trip (particularly if you travel during busier seasons) so you can book at 11 months and be happy there, and make sure you buy extra points in case your travel plans and/or the point charts change.

Cost aside, which do you prefer the looks, location, ammenities and transportation at? All things to consider as for what you'd be happy with IF you could only stay at "home"...

FYI, I own 160 points @ BLT and plan for 6 nights in a studio every year and 50 @ VGC and plan for 5 nights in a studio there once every 3 years. We have enough points to do our desired trips any season (and view) except Premiere with a Saturday arrival under the 2010 charts. I am a planner and intend to book at my home resorts 11 months out, and then on some WDW trips maybe try changing to another resort just to try them @ 7 months.

 

[Tink-n-Belle]

You need to decide what you most want in a resort.

For my family I wanted to be close to the parks. Nothing beats being able to walk from the BW or BC to Epcot and DHS and from the BLT to the MK. So nothing was more important to me when I choose my resort. I actually paid more per point and got less years on my contract when I bought at the BW but I have something priceless.

You need to access your needs. Don't forget that you will have this for 50 years and your needs will change. Just because one park is your favorite now, it doesn't mean it will be your favorite 20 years from now. Children will grow up and leave the nest and you may have an empty nest for a long time until the Grandkids come, so you need to pick the resort that meets YOUR needs- not the kids.

Another thing to think about is what resort will be easier to get into at the 7 month window. I think due to the location of the BLT is will be harder --not impossible--but definitely harder to get into at the 7 month window.

Another thing is the MF-- right now the BLT is $3.67, I think the AKV are higher. Also, the AKV are more spread out than the BLT so the cost for maintance at that resort could be higher. Also, transportation cost are part of the MF. For example the cost for transportation at the BW is higher than the BCV ?? . Will the cost to maintain the Monorail be passed onto Blt owners or will the AKV be more costly for transportation expense. VB has the highest MF due to the fact that its on the ocean. So if you own points there you are paying $1-3 more per point in MF than some other resorts. If you own 300 points it amounts to $300-$900 more.

 

[Crystal_27]

First of all, congratulations on your potential DVC purchase - - it's very exciting! To answer your question, yes, there are many specific differences in BLT and AKV. First off: location, location, location. BLT is on the monorail and is within walking distance to MK. That means that you not only do not have to worry about the busses for MK and Epcot, but also that you have easy access to all of the resorts via the MK bus terminal. Keep in mind if you buy at AKV, you will be bussing it everywhere. Second: price. BLT is more expensive to purchase than AKV and to stay a night at BLT will "cost" you more points than a stay at AKV. I don't know if you've looked into pricing yet, but with a DVC member referral, you can get 160 points at BLT for $98/point, whereas AKV is $96/point, and if you buy 200 points, you will get an additional couple dollars off the point price. However, BLT's maintenance fees *as of now* are cheaper than AKV's, so perhaps those figures "wash." However, do keep in mind that there are rumors that BLT's incentives are going to be going away and there have been reports that BLT's point price may even increase on June 15th. If you are interested in buying BLT, it would be wise to begin the process before the prices increase or the incentives go away. The other thing to think about is general resort ambiance. BLT is fairly "modern" in terms of decor, and is a fairly small resort. AKV, however, is one of the larger DVC resorts and not only do you have a fabulous pool and gorgeous decor, the animals are roaming, roaming, roaming.

Good luck!

 

[Sandisw]

I believe the most important thing to consider in picking a home resort is:

1. Where do you want to stay? If there is a specific resort that you want to stay at more than others, then that is where you should buy your resort.

2. Can you book your vacations more than 7 months in advance so that you can take advantage of the home resort booking advantage? If you can't, then home resort becomes much less important.

3. What are the initial costs and MF's for the resorts? Understanding both is important to deciding what works best for your family

4. How important is cost savings to you?

We have been going to WDW almost every year since 1994. We found, after many trips, that we loved the Contemporary and only wanted to stay there. Walking to and from our favorite park, MK, was very important to both my husband and me. We considered DVC several times but it all came down to whether we would be happy staying at the DVC resorts. The answer was always no.

Once BLT was announced, we knew it was right for us. After looking at everything, we decided that our happiness at WDW was more important then the money we could save by buying at another resort. We started out with a resale contract at our 2nd choice resort, VWL, thinking it would be okay and then just add less points at BLT. But we realized that didn't work and are now selling VWL, and will just end up with all our points at BLT.

As you debate between BLT and AKV, think about what would make you the happiest, just in case you can't trade out at 7 months. While many people have no problems, others do and you want to be sure that you will be happy if the only availability is at your home resort.

Right now, the price for BLT is very good and is rumored to go away on June 15th. If it is something that you are considering, and are close to making a decision, you might want to call a DVC guide to find out your options.

It appears that they are now letting new members split their initial contracts between AKV and BLT so maybe it would work to get some points at both places. If you end up getting a total of 200 points, you could get BLT as low as $96.00 and AKV as low as $94.00 (providing you have a member referral).

Good luck!!!

 

[Tara]

you can get 160 points at BLT for $98/point, whereas AKV is $96/point, and if you buy 200 points, you will get an additional couple dollars off the point price. However, BLT's maintenance fees *as of now* are cheaper than AKV's, so perhaps those figures "wash."

Crystal_27 and everyone else gave excellent advice on buying where you want to stay and some other ins and outs of ownership. However, there's one thing I disagree with - that the price difference and fees difference is a wash. Over the lifetime of the contract, the small difference in fees will amount to a significant overall cost difference, whereas the small difference in purchase price is never going to change. For a 160pt contract, the purchase price difference is only $320, but the difference in fees over the contract lifetime would be about $10,000 at today's rate difference.

Yes, BLT fees are currently subsidized, but the subsidy is only a nickel, so without the subsidy, they're still significantly lower. And yes, they could go up, but the chances of fees going above AKV's fees are probably low.

Just my 2 cents - good luck investigating the options!

(Oh, and we bought AKV in June but canceled within the 10 day grace period because we realized DVC was for us, but AKV wasn't. So we were content to wait to see "if" the new construction at the Contemporary was DVC. When it was announced, we called our guide and placed our order for points so it went in the day sales opened to the general public. So clearly that's how we answered the same question you are facing now. )

 

[gkrykewy]

And yes, they could go up, but the chances of fees going above AKV's fees are probably low.

"Probably" -- based on not much except for positive thinking

OP -- buy whichever resort you think you'll enjoy more, since your home resort is likely where you'll be staying most often.

Personally, we bought DVC because of AKV, not the other way around -- we just have always loved Animal Kingdom Lodge. Having the home booking advantage allows us to get the Value rooms, which stretch our points a long way, and also the concierge rooms.

At BLT, home resort advantage will likely be required for Magic Kingdom and Standard view rooms in most cases.

Enjoy!

 

[islandtimect]

We own at both, having just done 100 pt add on at BLT. It was very difficult to decide which to buy, because we LOVE AKL. But being able to own at a monorail resort is what was most important in the end. The extra pts needed per trip (13 to 22% more for the dates we vacation) almost wipe out the savings in MFs, so don't get too excited that BLT's lower MFs are such a great deal.

 

[wdrl]

We just joined DVC and had the same dilemma as you: Whether to choose Bay Lake Tower or Animal Kingdom. During our deliberations, my wife asked "Which resort offered greater access to restaurants IF we don't have a car?" Our belief was that we could easily walk to the restaurants at the Contemporary Resort, or take the monorail to the Poly or GF to use their restaurants. For that matter, we can use the monorail to get to Epcot's restaurants as well. If we stayed at AKV, and didn't have a car, we'd have to take the bus and transfer in order to get to any of those resort restaurants. This wasn't the deciding factor why we picked BLT, but it helped tip the scales to BLT over AKV.

 

[Crystal_27]

However, there's one thing I disagree with - that the price difference and fees difference is a wash. Over the lifetime of the contract, the small difference in fees will amount to a significant overall cost difference, whereas the small difference in purchase price is never going to change. For a 160pt contract, the purchase price difference is only $320, but the difference in fees over the contract lifetime would be about $10,000 at today's rate difference.

Tara, I just wanted to thank you for chiming in here...you are absolutely correct. As usual, I was daydreaming about something Disney-related, trying to read a TR on The DIS and plan my September trip via TGM, while texting DH about some injustice that happened to someone on the DIS, all while trying to WORK, and obviously not really thinking about the "real world" MF costs through the life of the contract. You ROCK, Hon!

 

[Tara]

"Probably" -- based on not much except for positive thinking

Well, what evidence is there that points to BLT dues rising *faster* than AK?

 

[Tara]

Tara, I just wanted to thank you for chiming in here...you are absolutely correct. As usual, I was daydreaming about something Disney-related, trying to read a TR on The DIS and plan my September trip via TGM, while texting DH about some injustice that happened to someone on the DIS, all while trying to WORK, and obviously not really thinking about the "real world" MF costs through the life of the contract. You ROCK, Hon!

Ain't multitasking grand?

 

[gkrykewy]

Well, what evidence is there that points to BLT dues rising *faster* than AK?

Well, historically some resorts have increased faster than others:

And some resorts started out cheaper than others, and ended up more expensive. Right now, BLT is quite an outlier relative to the others. Could go either way.

 

[AKV707]

I also want to say congratulations on your upcoming purchase of DVC.

In terms of home resort, it really comes down to the one at which you would always be willing to stay. I am an AKV owner. It is beautiful, restful, and has animals! I feel it is one of the most unique resorts anywhere.

BLT has the location close to MK. It is on the monorail. And presently the dues are lower. But no guarantee that they will stay that way. The point cost per night is higher than AKV, and that is guaranteed to stay that way.

Have you seen the models of both? Is there one room style you like better?

For us, we would choose AKV again. The overall experience is truly magical.

Good luck choosing. The good news is, you can't go wrong choosing between these 2!

 

[tjkraz]

The primary reason that BLT dues are so low--by a long shot--is the inflated point charts in comparison to other resorts.

The 2009 budget for BLT has total operating expenses, taxes and reserves of $5.6 million. Those dollars are shared by approximately 1.53 million DVC points.

If the BLT point charts were more in line with the likes of BCV and BWV, there would be 15-17% fewer points in circulation. That would reduce the total ownership to 1.27 million points.

Take the same $5.6 million annual budget and divide by only 1.27 million points and the dues would instead be approximately $4.41 per point which is in-line with other destinations.

Again the ONLY reason for this disparity is the larger number of points. A higher point chart allows DVC to sell more points up front and earn a higher return on the building. But the property's actual operating costs should be the same regardless of whether DVC puts 1 million, 10 million or 100 million points in circulation. The difference is the portion of dues shared by each point.

VGC is the same way--higher points per night, lower share of the dues burden paid by each point.

For a BLT owner using points at his/her Home, the values are irrelevant. Higher charts means lower dues, but it also means more points per night for each stay at that resort. But in comparison to other resorts, it's quite a bonus to pay only $3.67 for a BLT point and then use it to stay at a resort like BWV whose owners pay much higher dues.

If you scrutinize the line items of each resort's budget, certainly there are variations. Some are obvious and easily explainable (AKV only resort with savanna expenses; SSR with higher transportation budget than VGC). Some have more to do with the style of resort, durability of furniture and fixtures, quality of construction materials and so on.

BLT dues are currently 25% lower than AKV. Barring something truly unforeseen and unprecedented in the history of DVC, that gap will never close by a significant margin. One year we may see AKV increase by 3% while BLT is 5%. But those small annual variations would have to compound for many, many years in order to overcome the underlying differences in the dues basis for each resort.

 

[Tara]

Well, historically some resorts have increased faster than others:

So there is just as much chance that AKV will increase faster than BLT if you use that as an indicator, right?

And some resorts started out cheaper than others, and ended up more expensive. Right now, BLT is quite an outlier relative to the others. Could go either way.

And some have increased more slowly than others. How difficult would it be to run that same chart without VB or HHI? It would be interesting to see how the on-property resorts compare alone. I can kind of see it now, but some lines are hard to make out. It looks to me like they've all been on close to the same trajectory with small blips here and there. The real head-scratcher on the chart IMO is SSR - it seems like its dues should be higher by now, especially given the size of the grounds to maintain and the number of buildings. I would expect it to increase at the same rate as OKW.

I don't think any of that gives any indication of what will happen with BLT, though. What we know is that it's a single building with a small footprint and not much to maintain in the way of grounds. BLT probably has more expensive transportation costs to share (assuming the monorail is more expensive than bus or boat service - and I'm not sure if that's true), but they also don't have a herd of animals to maintain - so that's probably a wash at worst, or maybe advantage BLT at best...hard to say. When I think about the comparison between BLT and AKV, I think of BWV and BCV. BWV and BCV have tracked pretty closely - I would expect similar "performance" from AKV and BLT.

It will be interesting to see what happens, though.

 

[Tara]

The primary reason that BLT dues are so low--by a long shot--is the inflated point charts in comparison to other resorts.

This is an excellent point which I didn't even cover, and I'm glad I didn't take the time to, because I couldn't have said it any better than you did, tjkraz.

 

[jade1]

But in comparison to other resorts, it's quite a bonus to pay only $3.67 for a BLT point and then use it to stay at a resort like BWV whose owners pay much higher dues.
.

Exactly, so owning BLT and staying at AKV makes much more sense than the other way around. Plus chance of getting a ressie at 7 months are higher at AKV than BLT IMO.

 

[gkrykewy]

Exactly, so owning BLT and staying at AKV makes much more sense than the other way around. Plus chance of getting a ressie at 7 months are higher at AKV than BLT IMO.

On average I'm sure you're right, but it really depends on the room category.

Tara, I'll post the same chart later without VB and HHI.

BLT dues are currently 25% lower than AKV. Barring something truly unforeseen and unprecedented in the history of DVC, that gap will never close by a significant margin. One year we may see AKV increase by 3% while BLT is 5%. But those small annual variations would have to compound for many, many years in order to overcome the underlying differences in the dues basis for each resort.

Thanks for the info, and I agree with pretty much everything you're saying. Do you have total points numbers for the other resorts?

My point is not that BLT's fees are likely to surpass AKV's over time, but rather that I think it's questionable that they'll remain 25% lower into perpetuity. If 10 years from now that difference is 15% (completely hypothetical), it's minimal enough that it should not be a major factor in one's purchase decision (IMO).