agree to disagree? gray areas everywhere

[kaytieeldr]

Have you ever known anyone to do that? If someone is that crazy all the more power to them. If you want to do so, have at it. We can play the pretend game until we are blue in the face. But in reality most people are serving, and the court systems are getting by.

Common sense is an amazing thing. Courts that work with the people have a jury supply. Straight from our bailiff's mouth.

Respectfully, someone reading THIS thread - between the stay-at-home-mothers with their excuses, and the general excuses/suggestions provided by other posters, wouldn't agree with the highlighted segment.

 

[kaytieeldr]

And for the poster who would not sign up for the courthouse in a "bad neighborhood" but then cricitizes others for not serving, that is quite hypocritical. All people are entitled to a jury of their peers, not just the ones in "good" neighborhoods.

First, I didn't initially "sign up" for a courthouse. I was sent a notice for jury duty in which I was assigned to District Court in a specific city; and it's not that the courthouse is in a bad neighborhood. At least two of the courthouses are. I have an admitted irrational fear of being in this particular city. Think about it. I wouldn't be able to impartially make a decision based solely on the evidence presented. If you or a loved one were on trial, would YOU want someone nervous, distracted, and on the verge of a panic attack on your jury? And District Court isn't just for the city in which the courthouse is located - it seems to be what some of you all are calling county court, so four courthouses cover about 28 cities. Some bad, some 'good', some mediocre, some ritzy... NO way to determine the defendant by the location of the courthouse.

I selected the farthest courthouse as my alternative simply to show that I willing to be as inconvenienced as possible. I still don't know where it is, because that's not where the court system sent me.

 

[C.Ann]

For what it's worth - which isn't much - LOL - this is what I know..

DD's FIL was called for Federal Grand Jury a number of years ago.. I remember that he had to show up "X" number of days per week, for a very long time - a few months at least.. Fortunately he had just retired, but because there was no parking available where the court house was, he had to drive to a designated area each time and take a bus (on his dime).. He found it interesting though - and I'm not suprised..

A friend from my old neighborhood was called for a criminal trial (murder) that lasted for 6 weeks.. Ironically, she was also voted foreman of the jury.. (Just so happens that she was a long time employee of a well known law school..) Her children were grown - no issues there - and she found it interesting, but very, very emotionally draining to be involved in a trial for a very grisly murder.. In the end though, she felt good about serving - and felt she did the best that she could..

I have been called twice in the past.. No bus routes from where I lived to the county court house where I had to go, so I had to drive.. That was no big deal - but they had no parking available for jurors, no "jurors" sign to put on your dash, so if your quarters ran out in the parking meters, you received a fine (and no reimbursement from the city/county that called you to serve).. That did not make me happy at all - but as it turned out, I didn't have to serve either time..

Both times I made it as far as the jurors box where the attorneys question you to see if you would be suitable for the trial at hand..

First time it was a man with a back injury from a work-related incident.. I was asked if I ever knew anyone with a back injury and I replied honestly, "Yes.." I was asked who - and the circumstances - and again I answered honestly.. "My father broke his back at work when I was little.." That was it - they tossed me right off..

Second time one of the attorneys just happened to be an "ambulance chaser" who had the most annoying tv commercials in the world that seemed to pop up day and night after every single show I watched.. He asked me (with a big smile on his face) if I was "familiar" with him.. I said, "Yes.." Another big smile and he asked how.. I replied, "From your television commercials.." (Bigger grin..) He then asked if I had formed an opinion of him from those commercials and I answered honestly again.. I said, "Yes, I have.. And quite frankly, I don't like you.." Tossed off again..

I seriously was not trying to get out of either case - always thought it would be fascinating - and at that point in my life, childcare was not an issue for me.. It just happened to turn out that by telling the truth, I was deemed "not suitable"..

Of course if I'm ever called again now, I won't be able to serve due to medical reasons, but I often wonder what it's like..

Having said all of that, I can see where in some cases, it really would be difficult to arrange childcare.. People are so mobile now - and often don't live anywhere near family.. And many jobs will find a way to "let you go" after you have taken time off for jury duty - although legally, I don't think they're supposed to..

I think at times, there are very legitimate reasons to ask to be excused - and at other times there are people like my former BIL - who every time he was called - would answer the very first question from the attorney with, "HANG HIM!!" Needless to say, he never served..

It saddens me to see the direction this thread has gone though.. The nastiness, sarcasm, dirty digs, and flat out insults have me shaking my head and wondering where the mods are.. This one probably should have been locked a long time ago..

 

[Mkrop]

First, I didn't initially "sign up" for a courthouse. I was sent a notice for jury duty in which I was assigned to District Court in a specific city; and it's not that the courthouse is in a bad neighborhood. At least two of the courthouses are. I have an admitted irrational fear of being in this particular city. Think about it. I wouldn't be able to impartially make a decision based solely on the evidence presented. If you or a loved one were on trial, would YOU want someone nervous, distracted, and on the verge of a panic attack on your jury? And District Court isn't just for the city in which the courthouse is located - it seems to be what some of you all are calling county court, so four courthouses cover about 28 cities. Some bad, some 'good', some mediocre, some ritzy... NO way to determine the defendant by the location of the courthouse.

I selected the farthest courthouse as my alternative simply to show that I willing to be as inconvenienced as possible. I still don't know where it is, because that's not where the court system sent me.

So your fear is more acceptable, than the mother who is engorged and not allowed to pump and cant concentrate on the case, or the parent who is worried about their children being left with strangers, or their MIL who was the only one available but smokes like a chimmney, or the poster Who works nights and would have to report after working all night. Or any parent who is watching the clock at 5pm hoping court ends on time to get their kids?


And I know you will say but I asked to serve further away, well that is great, once again it is serving on YOUR terms, but anyone's else terms, like waiting until they are done BFing or their children are older, is not?

WOW

 

[Michelle and crew]

So your fear is more acceptable, than the mother who is engorged and not allowed to pump and cant concentrate on the case, or the parent who is worried about their children being left with strangers, or their MIL who was the only one available but smokes like a chimmney, or the poster Who works nights and would have to report after working all night. Or any parent who is watching the clock at 5pm hoping court ends on time to get their kids?


And I know you will say but I asked to serve further away, well that is great, once again it is serving on YOUR terms, but anyone's else terms, like waiting until they are done BFing or their children are older, is not?

WOW

No, you don't get it...you CHOSE to have a child, so you should buck up. Of course she could CHOOSE to have therapy so that she could serve on their terms.

As for the childcare issue, not being discerning as to where your small child, or infant is staying and with whom is scandalous. My opinion, of course.

We don't have a military base, just about 50 military personelle and their families. So no onsite housing or childcare. We have a contract to provide counseling and case management for them. I was a navy brat, and thus appreciate the opportunity.

 

[leight]

The last company I worked for offered a service that would provide and pay for emergency day care for children or elder care for 3 days each calendar year. I instead paid for an extra week vacation every year to cover any emergency situations like a sick child. I just couldn't see calling an agency and having a stranger walk in the door and care for my young children for 10 hours while I worked. I also can't imagine doing it for jury duty.

While it is possible for the working parent to take time off to watch the kids while the stay at home parent went to jury duty for the one day, I would think that a stay at home parent or primary caregiver should be excused or deferred as I doubt many companies would allow an employee to be absent for a longer period of time due to a spouse on jury duty. When we go from talking about one day vs several days or weeks, that changes the whole scenario imho. Most SAHM/D may have emergency situations lined up which cover short periods during a day but extended periods are definately a hardship. That is why FMLA was created in the first place- to protect a person's job in the event a family member is gravely ill. In this day and age most of us try not to do things to put our jobs at risk.

I wish there were a way that you could sign up to be on a list to be on a jury in my area. I think it would be really interesting and would definately do so. My kids are older, my job would still pay my salary and although I would lose commissions and be inconvenienced by the parking situation and commute, I would still put my name on the list. I was deferred from grand jury when I was 8 months pregnant with my 2nd and was never called back to serve for that. I moved 4 yrs later when I got my next request for county jury that was forwarded to my new state. I simply called the clerk and faxed my new license and utility bill to show my new residence. Two years ago I was called here, and served. I was chosen for the jury on an armed robbery. It was settled by a plea bargain the 1st actual day of trial.

I agree with the person who said there are a lot of grays and I can only hope that a judge would take that into consideration when allowing deferrals.

 

[angelmav]

I sure hope you homeschool your kids if you have any especially since they can be assaulted just as easily at school by any number of people to include other students. Yep, know all about that thanks to one victim being in my youngest DD's class and then the Sheriff Detective that I had as an instructor for my Juvenile Justice class sharing what had taken place at a middle school here. It just so happened to be the same middle school my child was in. These cases both involved students as the assaulter.

It amazes me that you think that someone leaving their children in a daycare is leaving them with a stranger. Oh, and most military installations that I have been on offer drop in daycare at the centers.

OK, why do you keep chiming in on this subject? As someone that is in the military, you are already exempt from jury duty. Secondly, if you dont already have your children registered in the military base day care, then it is not just as simple as dropping them off. Having had an emergency arise and new to an area I found this out the hard way.

But after 31 pages of this, it is a bit suprising that any court has difficulty getting a large enough pool, as plenty of folks seem to already be in the Judge and Jury mindset (ZING!)

 

[kaytieeldr]

So your fear is more acceptable, than the mother who is engorged and not allowed to pump and cant concentrate on the case, or the parent who is worried about their children being left with strangers, or their MIL who was the only one available but smokes like a chimmney, or the poster Who works nights and would have to report after working all night. Or any parent who is watching the clock at 5pm hoping court ends on time to get their kids?


And I know you will say but I asked to serve further away, well that is great, once again it is serving on YOUR terms, but anyone's else terms, like waiting until they are done BFing or their children are older, is not?

WOW

Well, the major difference here is that I wasn't asking, requesting, or expecting to be excused (or deferred, or exempted) in ANY way. I was simply asking for - and subsequently granted - a completely legitimate change of location. The DATE on which I had to appear didn't change. Only the location changed. I still appeared on the originally-scheduled date.

Is my fear "more acceptable"? Since I wasn't trying to get excused from serving jury duty on my originally-assigned date, that's not applicable.

No, you don't get it...you CHOSE to have a child, so you should buck up. Of course she could CHOOSE to have therapy so that she could serve on their terms.

You know, I could. That's not something I'd considered, and probably six weeks wouldn't have been enough time. But since I could be called again in seventeen months, that's something I should genuinely consider - I realize I am limiting myself, just in general. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[ccgirl]

The last company I worked for offered a service that would provide and pay for emergency day care for children or elder care for 3 days each calendar year. I instead paid for an extra week vacation every year to cover any emergency situations like a sick child. I just couldn't see calling an agency and having a stranger walk in the door and care for my young children for 10 hours while I worked. I also can't imagine doing it for jury duty.

While it is possible for the working parent to take time off to watch the kids while the stay at home parent went to jury duty for the one day, I would think that a stay at home parent or primary caregiver should be excused or deferred as I doubt many companies would allow an employee to be absent for a longer period of time due to a spouse on jury duty. When we go from talking about one day vs several days or weeks, that changes the whole scenario imho. Most SAHM/D may have emergency situations lined up which cover short periods during a day but extended periods are definately a hardship. That is why FMLA was created in the first place- to protect a person's job in the event a family member is gravely ill. In this day and age most of us try not to do things to put our jobs at risk.

I wish there were a way that you could sign up to be on a list to be on a jury in my area. I think it would be really interesting and would definately do so. My kids are older, my job would still pay my salary and although I would lose commissions and be inconvenienced by the parking situation and commute, I would still put my name on the list. I was deferred from grand jury when I was 8 months pregnant with my 2nd and was never called back to serve for that. I moved 4 yrs later when I got my next request for county jury that was forwarded to my new state. I simply called the clerk and faxed my new license and utility bill to show my new residence. Two years ago I was called here, and served. I was chosen for the jury on an armed robbery. It was settled by a plea bargain the 1st actual day of trial.

I agree with the person who said there are a lot of grays and I can only hope that a judge would take that into consideration when allowing deferrals.

Just wanted to say that is very well put. I think the length of the jury duty should be considered. Perhaps before a SAHM/D sends in their deferment they can find out if it will just be 1 day or not. If it's just going to 1 day, perhaps they can try really hard to find the alternate care or the WOH parent can request the day off to stay home and care for the kids. Obviously, if it is going to be for a longer trial the situation would have to be re-evaluated. As everyone keeps saying, it is inconvenient for the majority of the population. I don't think people should make up an excuse just because it is going to be inconvenient for them.

 

[momejay]

I didn't read all the posts, but the last time I was told that even though I am a single mom, nursing an infant & I have 2 children with autism & have no one to watch them I still had to report. The reasoning was they were in school & a room would be provided for me to pump. (Of course it was June & they had half days...) One of my children at the time had no placement in school. I called to see if I had to report & they told me to be there the next day. I told them it would be impossible & had the school & doctors write a note. I still had to report. I never got on a jury. I just sat there & read for a week & darn near went broke using savings to pay bills.

I'd love to do my duty on the jury, but it is a real hardship to find someone to replace me in our household during the day. Even if I found a sitter for the kids, who would cook, clean, do laundry, or do my work from home jobs? It is a shame we can't do some of the easier cases from home online with a web cam or something. At least let us give the court a schedule of our availability. I wouldn't mind serving during school hours. Some might find it easier to serve in the late afternoon & evening. Couldn't we split shifts?

 

[Mkrop]

Well, the major difference here is that I wasn't asking, requesting, or expecting to be excused (or deferred, or exempted) in ANY way. I was simply asking for - and subsequently granted - a completely legitimate change of location. The DATE on which I had to appear didn't change. Only the location changed. I still appeared on the originally-scheduled date.

Is my fear "more acceptable"? Since I wasn't trying to get excused from serving jury duty on my originally-assigned date, that's not applicable.

You know, I could. That's not something I'd considered, and probably six weeks wouldn't have been enough time. But since I could be called again in seventeen months, that's something I should genuinely consider - I realize I am limiting myself, just in general. Thanks for the suggestion.

Frankly I dont see ANY difference at all. Many of the people here are asking for deferrments. I dont see them wanting to get out of it permanently. I am sure you inconvienced someone with your choice of not going to that particular courthouse, they had to call someone else there.

Just wanted to say that is very well put. I think the length of the jury duty should be considered. Perhaps before a SAHM/D sends in their deferment they can find out if it will just be 1 day or not. If it's just going to 1 day, perhaps they can try really hard to find the alternate care or the WOH parent can request the day off to stay home and care for the kids. Obviously, if it is going to be for a longer trial the situation would have to be re-evaluated. As everyone keeps saying, it is inconvenient for the majority of the population. I don't think people should make up an excuse just because it is going to be inconvenient for them.

I think that is the fear many people have of even going to report, that they might get picked for a long trial and then what. I think is a problem for any parent, working or not, if you get called for a long trial and you have kids to care for. You will be watching the clock at 3 when school is letting out or at 6 when you need to be at daycare.

I know this is hard for people in the jury pool and no not everyone can be excused but if is this hard for many people maybe the jurisdiction to revamp how they do this.

I know when I filled in my form in PA, and was waiting to see if I would be excused as a SAHM, I was sweating it out and trying to figure how to make this work. A couple of days I was ok but any more than that and I would have been up a creek. I was LEGITIMMATELY EXCUSED before my appear date and have not been called since.

 

[Michelle and crew]

Highly reasonable.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Frankly I dont see ANY difference at all. Many of the people here are asking for deferrments. I dont see them wanting to get out of it permanently. I am sure you inconvienced someone with your choice of not going to that particular courthouse, they had to call someone else there.

No. Many of the people here are expecting (not asking) to be excused (not deferred). Not serving until one's small children are grown = excused, not deferred. As for someone else being inconvenienced? Well, it's possible one person who was called for jury duty at that courthouse who was far enough down the list that they would have been informed after 5 PM the day before we were supposed to report that they weren't needed, ultimately did need to show up. I don't know how 'inconvenienced' that could be considered, since everybody scheduled that day for all four courts should have expected to appear until that phone call told us we weren't needed.

I know this is hard for people in the jury pool and no not everyone can be excused but if is this hard for many people maybe the jurisdiction to revamp how they do this.

I don't know if this is the third or the fourth time I'm stating this, but while Massachusetts has its faults, we have a one day/one trial jury system. You serve one or the other, and then you're exempt for three years, from ALL courts including Federal.

Instead of coming up with excuse after excuse, work with your respective states' Legislatures/governments to CHANGE YOUR OWN JURY SYSTEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mkrop]

No. Many of the people here are expecting (not asking) to be excused (not deferred). Not serving until one's small children are grown = excused, not deferred.

Maybe I need to work on my reading comprehension skills but I have not read that in all of these pages.

Maybe what you are reading are the differences in state to state regulations, in PA there was no deferrment option there was just an option to be excused. If I could have asked for deferrment until my children were OLDER not grown then I would serve. When they were little, it was a much harder situation.

 

[ccgirl]

I didn't read all the posts, but the last time I was told that even though I am a single mom, nursing an infant & I have 2 children with autism & have no one to watch them I still had to report. The reasoning was they were in school & a room would be provided for me to pump. (Of course it was June & they had half days...) One of my children at the time had no placement in school. I called to see if I had to report & they told me to be there the next day. I told them it would be impossible & had the school & doctors write a note. I still had to report. I never got on a jury. I just sat there & read for a week & darn near went broke using savings to pay bills.

I'd love to do my duty on the jury, but it is a real hardship to find someone to replace me in our household during the day. Even if I found a sitter for the kids, who would cook, clean, do laundry, or do my work from home jobs? It is a shame we can't do some of the easier cases from home online with a web cam or something. At least let us give the court a schedule of our availability. I wouldn't mind serving during school hours. Some might find it easier to serve in the late afternoon & evening. Couldn't we split shifts?

Totally sympathize with the finding daycare arrangements. As far as who will cook, clean, do laundry etc...it can be done at night just like the WOH parent does. Doesn't seem like a real good reason to get excused.

IInstead of coming up with excuse after excuse, work with your respective states' Legislatures/governments to CHANGE YOUR OWN JURY SYSTEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guess that's what I am going off of. I am used to the one day, one jury system. Maybe other states should adopt that as well? Seems it would lessen the financial and emotional burden on others???

 

[kaytieeldr]

Maybe I need to work on my reading comprehension skills but I have not read that in all of these pages.

Maybe what you are reading are the differences in state to state regulations, in PA there was no deferrment option there was just an option to be excused. If I could have asked for deferrment until my children were OLDER not grown then I would serve. When they were little, it was a much harder situation.

So, again: work to get the jury system in your state changed.

 

[pintamino]

Instead of coming up with excuse after excuse, work with your respective states' Legislatures/governments to CHANGE YOUR OWN JURY SYSTEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mkrop]

So, again: work to get the jury system in your state changed.

I was fine, my state gave me the ability to fill in a form, state my reasons, and excuse me before my date. SAHM to young children was a vaild excuse to the state of PA or my county. I am glad my state recognizes that! I feel bad for the parents who states do not!

 

[Michelle and crew]

I was fine, my state gave me the ability to fill in a form, state my reasons, and excuse me before my date. SAHM to young children was a vaild excuse to the state of PA or my county. I am glad my state recognizes that! I feel bad for the parents who states do not!

I agree.


I just helped re elect one of our best family court judges. We were talking at the party last night about the jury system. As long as he has enough jurors who can serve he is perfectly willing to excuse those who would have difficulty do to jobs, families, etc. He only has a real problem with juries in January when people are snowbound.

 

[Soulsearching]

I haven't read all the posts, but when I was called for jury in New York State, mind you it was 18 years ago, I wrote down that I was the sole care taker of my children. I truly was. They were not in school at the time.

They said I still had to report.

So I reported with my children. The person I reported to was not happy. She asked me why I brought my children. I told her I was the sole care taker of them and they come everywhere with me.

I was excused.

I have been called since and have gone.