agree to disagree? gray areas everywhere

[2girlsR2good]

@andymattmom I'm so sorry I misunderstood and posted quickly in reaction. I read your post when I was tired--and jumped to conclusions! MomX2 defended you well!

Sorry!!

I still stand by the fact that we don't really know what someone else can or can't do until we are in their shoes--we just think we can!

 

[kaytieeldr]

For jury duty around here, all you know is you MIGHT get called during the month you're "on". Each night you call a recording that tells you whether to report the next day. So if you consider ~14 hours "reasonable" notice, OK.

I guess I'm spoiled - and I'm not being sarcastic AT ALL - by the jury system in Massachusetts. We get plenty of notice, it's one day/one trial, and once you've served one or the other you're exempt for three years from ALL jury duty.

 

[kaytieeldr]

It is my right to not serve on a jury if I am unable to do so for medical, or other legitimate reasons.

Honestly - the first time that right is taken from me, I will move out of the USA quicker than you can blink.

You have a right to vote or not, as you choose; you have a duty to serve on a jury if called, eligible, and able - not a right not to do so.

 

[herdtoDisney]

I must have it pretty good in my state too, because I've only been called twice in 20 years-first time, I went for a day and was not chosen (this was the time my kids were small and my dad kept them, otherwise I don't know what I would have done, dh was not able to get off work) and the other time, I didn't even have to go-my state has you call the night before to see if you are to report. My boss was thrilled that I would not be used! Kids were in school by this time.

Dh, also a registered voter, has NEVER been called.

 

[MissElizabeth]

I bolded.
I disagree. My parents did not find childcare. On the extremely rare occassion that we needed to be taken care of we had a relative keep an eye on us. They had no other backup etc.

Your lifestyle choices do not, and should not, exempt you from doing your duty.

 

[Leajess99]

Unfortunately, you don't get to choose when you will perform jury duty - especially Federal Jury Duty. As a member of the legal community I want to stress that if you follow the advice of those who posted to take your kids with you to Federal Jury Duty, you will be charged with contempt and be sent to jail.

My suggestion is to petition the Clerk of the Court to delay your summons for Jury Duty to give you time to make arrangements for suitable care for your youngest. You will need to provide documentation from your pediatrician, care team, etc. that you must be available during his/her sessions. You might also want to prepare a statement of financial hardship and provide documentation to *prove* that your husband will not be paid while you serve Federal Jury Duty.

This will only get your service delayed, not put off until it's convenient for you. Jury duty is at the convenience of the courts - not of the jurist. Sorry - but that's our constitutional right.

One thing you may want to remember - you were called because you registered to vote. If you don't want called for jury duty, then don't register to vote and you won't be called. But then, you can't complain when our government acts in a way you disapprove of. Hard choices - but no one ever said that freedom was easy.

Good Luck!

The bolded is so not true. My brother is NOT registered to vote in this state yet he had Jury duty earlier this year.

 

[bartleby1]

Do they go to a public/private school? I'm just wondering how that works if you only let people you know very well watch them? Or are you home schooling them?
One of my school teachers is in jail for having child porn on his work computer. My neighbor ended up commiting murder. I'm not scared to let my kid go to school...or have neighbors. That's not to say I'm not smart and engaged with the people she interacts with. I mean I'm not some parent who'd leave their kid in a stroller outside the bar while mommy has a drink. But I'm also not going to live in fear that the world is out to gobble her up.



Finding childcare is a part of being a parent - along with poopy diapers and hugs. Every parent has to deals with it - and I don't think it's ever easy for anyone. It's a lot of work and time to find a good care giver. It's a difficult situation for every parent. I have good childcare options because I worked hard to find them. So why should one parent get special civil accomidations over another parent because their job choice is a SAHM? Because they don't want to ask their husband to watch the kids during the day? Because they don't feel like working to try and find childcare? It's discrimination.

Yes, my kids do go to public school now. I guess I was not clear that I was referring to private sitters since the 6 daycare centers in my area do not take drop-ins. The difference is that in school the kids are in a controlled environment where there are other children and adults around. That is extremely different than hiring a person I don't know to come into my home to watch my children or dropping my children off at a sitters home. Interviewing, background checks, or even doing trial runs while you are around do not give you any indication of what goes on when you are not around. Believe me, it was extremely hard confronting my neighbors when I saw their son being treated poorly by their nanny. The entire neighborhood saw, heard, and knew what was going on, but no one said a word to them. Everyone felt they didn't want to get involved. Abuse was taking place in their own home by the nanny they "checked out", "fingerprinted", did "background" checks, did a "trial run" with, etc. Neighbors all saw what was going on and said/did nothing. Don't think that it can't happen. Often times, preschool children are not old enough to express what is really going on with the people who watch them. When mine were preschool aged, I was not willing to take that risk.

And, now that my children are older (10, 8, and 5), it would be much easier to find childcare with people I know in an emergency situation or jury duty. I've lived in this area for 5 years now and do have a network of other moms and neighbors I could count on, plus, my parents are now retired. I would gladly serve on a jury at this point and take my fair turn. Of course it would still be inconvenient and I'd still need to arrange for childcare for my half-day kindergartener and for my older two when they got on/off the bus, etc. But, at this point it would be do-able, just inconvenient like it would be for most people. However, when my kids were 5, 2-1/2, and newborn, and I had just moved into this neighborhood, I would have had big problems finding someone to care for 3 preschool aged kids. Finding someone to watch ONE child would have been a challenge at the time since I had no family or friends in the area, but to find someone that I trusted to take 3 would have been almost impossible. I did have one close friend who lived near me at the time but she had 4 preschoolers of her own and their would be no way she could handle having 3 more added in.

I have served for jury duty in the past and I will serve again. Thankfully, I was not called during the years when my kids were young so I didn't have to find a solution but I do feel for those that are put in this situation. I didn't have much of a support system during those years and it was extremely hard.

I'm not trying to say that jury duty is a walk in the park for ANYONE. It isn't. It is incovenient and difficult for most of us. However, when it is a true financial hardship (which for some COULD mean even missing just one day's pay) or if someone is the sole caregiver for young children or elderly and an adequate replacement cannot be found, I do believe that a postponement should be granted. Thankfully, our courts usually believe that as well.

 

[taitai]

I can say that I absolutely would NEVER work for your company! (I mean this in all due respect). I am disabiled with a social anxiety/phobia. I could NEVER serve in a jury. According to you I should be excuxed? what gives you the right to even say that.

And for the record - I may be a US citizen becuase I was born here, but I also don't vote - it's my RIGHT to NOT do it as much as it's your right to do it.

It is my right to not serve on a jury if I am unable to do so for medical, or other legitimate reasons.

Honestly - the first time that right is taken from me, I will move out of the USA quicker than you can blink.

Really? Where will you emigrate that does not have compulsory jury duty? How will you do so legally?

 

[Leajess99]

Something many seem to be missing: being the primary caretaker to a child under 10 is by federal law an absolute excuse from jury duty. You don't have to be a sahm to be a primary caretaker but it would qualify. Most of the time you just write this on the long form they mail you after the initial summons and you are done. I personally think this is a great law and no different than excusing EMTs and firefighters etc.

Can you provide a valid link for this?? http://www.uscourts.gov/FederalCourts/JuryService/JurorQualificaitons.aspx - This link does not show what you claim to be as a fact. There are 3 groups of people that are exempt from jury duty and even in the excuses it does not state the primary caretaker of a child under 10 is excused.

Also, Federal jury pay is showing at $40 a day and it states that most federal trials last less than a week. It also shows that reimbursement is given for travel and parking as well as a substinance allowance for meals and lodging IF the juror is required to stay overnight.

 

[plummer925]

I have a question and I am not trying to disagree with you or start a fight I am just curious. I am a civics teacher and one thing we talk in great deal about is our role as citizens and our role in government. I am also a practicing Catholic and have attended bibical classes all through my youth studying the bible in great length. I teach in a very multi cultural school with teachers of all races and religions and we all have the same view point that we as Americans are obligated to participate in the system.

I have never heard someone use the your reason as a reason not to vote. I totally understand not wanting to praticipate in the system and the many political beliefs that way sway a person not to vote but never a bibical reason. I sat in mass on Sunday and our priest talked about our role as active catholics and the importance of voting and carefully looking at issues not just the popular vote.

Just purely a curious question but what religion do you practice that supports such a theory. I as an educator love to hear all view points that surround government and the civic process. I would love to know so in the future I can respect this populations view point better in my teachings. The last thing I want to do is offend a population because I am not aware of their view point. Now if it is only one pesons personal opinion that is a different matter but if it is a teaching of an organized common religion I would love to better understand.

Thank you

I am a Christian. Anabaptist more specifically.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Your lifestyle choices do not, and should not, exempt you from doing your duty.

Lifestyle choice? How is not having childcare a lifestyle choice? I guess I chose not to pay at least $25 an hour for childcare if I could actually find a responsible capable adult that could adequately care for 5 small children.

I am not saying parents should be exempt. I am simply saying that we should be able to schedule a time frame when it is easier for all parents. Say....when the kids start school full time. This makes childcare easier for everyone.

 

[kaytieeldr]

So if you have someone who, starting at eighteen, has a child every five years (extreme but not impossible), she could conceivably not be scheduled for thirty years?

 

[Leajess99]

Lifestyle choice? How is not having childcare a lifestyle choice? I guess I chose not to pay at least $25 an hour for childcare if I could actually find a responsible capable adult that could adequately care for 5 small children.

I am not saying parents should be exempt. I am simply saying that we should be able to schedule a time frame when it is easier for all parents. Say....when the kids start school full time. This makes childcare easier for everyone.

How does a child being in school full time change it?? Just because a child is in school full time does NOT make jury duty any different. So if your child gets out of school at say 2:15 (my elementary child gets out at this time so we will use her schedule) and you are on jury duty, who is watching them until you get off jury duty?? You do realize it can last until 5 or later?? Trust me I have sat in court waiting my turn for the drunk driver that hit my car with my children and myself in it and then he tried to flee the scene and it was almost 5 pm before they realized his lawyer left because he could not find the guy since the guy was back in lockup to prevent him from skipping out on his bail for the 3rd time (I had already had to do their job in finding him twice and was not going to be kind if I had to do it again). I have also been in family court until almost 7 pm before and they do have civil juries there.

 

[2disneyboys]

I hope that everyone realizes that just because someone's life is different from yours does not make thier life any easier... yes, I choose to work, therefore, I already have child care (its called school) however, yes I would still have to make arrangements for the after care because normally I am there to get them straight from school. also, lots (and this number is growing!) of moms work from home (its called telecommuting) so those working mothers would possibly NOT already have day care arrangements made so in addition to potentially losing money for not working, they would also have the task and expense of finding qualified child care.

as far as the argument that there are only a few years a SAHM can't serve so why not postpone them having to serve until they are past that period... how would that work? Do we have to say this the age bracket you can have kids if you don't want to hassle with child care arrangements and jury duty? do we have everyone submit a card to whatever entity is actually responsible for assigning jury duty to let them know that we are now a parent and therefore to start the deferral period. oh and what about the parents that share custody of the kids.. how do you handle thier deferral???? not to mention the LENGHT of deferral.. several SAHM's have mentioned a 5 year or so period of deferral...well yes, if they ONLY have a child or two. My SIL is a SAHM and has 4 kids... 10, 6, 3 and 6 months. So TECHNICALLY, she has not been able to serve for 10 years already and won't for another 5 at least and that's assuming she does not have any more kids, which she has not ruled out. Did I mention that one of her kids is special needs and that they are a military family and therefore get transfered all over the nation and don't have close family or long term friends around. and we haven't even touched the other end of the spectrum of the adults that are now providing care to thier parents etc that can't be left alone...thier needs are no less important the the needs of the SAHM who doesn't have anyone they could "trust" with thier baby.

And for the record I have nothing against SAHM's. I am glad when families find the solutions that work for them. I just resent when because I made the choices that I made that are different then choices you made, its assumed that my life is easier when disruptive things occur. It is no less disruptive or financially impactive on me than someone else.

 

[Eternalkudr]

Your lifestyle choices do not, and should not, exempt you from doing your duty.

Of course they do, all the time! Felons never have to do jury duty! Parents, sahms and all kinds of other caretakers whether working or not, whether foster parents or grandparents etc., get exempted all the time! Federal judges/courts are more generous about it than a lot of other states. Caretakers across the country are making tons of inroads in passing guidelines that specifically allow for their exemption. Is it fair? I think so, but lots of aspects of life are not. This seems minor by comparison. Besides some people like being called, consider it interesting and are eager. For some it really isn't all that inconvenient. Not sure how the court could ever make it completely fair short of volunteer service, but judges definitely do consider lifestyle choices. I think courts could do a lot more to make jury duty more appealing including paying more and having weekend and evening hours and offering choices of blocks of times so more people would want to serve, find it easier to serve. The whole system now is largely set up to be at the convenience of judges, their staff and the attorneys. Go figure!

 

[lindsmom]

How does a child being in school full time change it?? Just because a child is in school full time does NOT make jury duty any different. So if your child gets out of school at say 2:15 (my elementary child gets out at this time so we will use her schedule) and you are on jury duty, who is watching them until you get off jury duty??

It's a lot easier to set up a playdate where your child takes the bus to a friend's house for three hours after school than to set up care for an infant from 7 - 5 in your home. While my daughter is in school from 8 - 3 (includes bus time), that's seven fewer hours I need to find coverage for her. I don't think the PP meant that the child in school changes jury duty, but it does change the childcare coverage a parent needs.

 

[herdtoDisney]

as far as the argument that there are only a few years a SAHM can't serve so why not postpone them having to serve until they are past that period... how would that work? Do we have to say this the age bracket you can have kids if you don't want to hassle with child care arrangements and jury duty? do we have everyone submit a card to whatever entity is actually responsible for assigning jury duty to let them know that we are now a parent and therefore to start the deferral period. oh and what about the parents that share custody of the kids.. how do you handle thier deferral???? not to mention the LENGHT of deferral.. .

I'm one who has mentioned the idea of a deferral-the way I think it should work is, if a caretaker of a young child (or disabled or elderly person) REQUESTS a deferral, it be granted, maybe for 3 years or such. I don't think it should be automatic, not every SAHM would need to request it (like I posted, I was a SAHM during one time I was called and my dad helped me out so I didn't consider deferring at that time). It should just be an option that a caretaker (not just SAHM's, could be a mom who works outside the home, or a child caring for an elderly parent) could request if needed. I have enough faith in the American public that I would assume that the vast majority of people who would claim this need, would actually need it.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I think courts could do a lot more to make jury duty more appealing including paying more and having weekend and evening hours and offering choices of blocks of times so more people would want to serve, find it easier to serve.

But the jurors aren't the only people involved here. You've got judges, lawyers, guards, clerks, witnesses... jury duty IS inconvenient. It's not SUPPOSED to be fun, or enticing, or a source of income. The courts aren't going to turn their schedules upside down. They don't call the same citizens to serve every week (if they do, your respective states are in SERIOUS need of jury reform; or far too many eligible jurors are getting exempted).

 

[nicki.momof3]

I am a Christian. Anabaptist more specifically.

THank you for your reply. I am oing to have to look into in more. I have never heard Christians not believing in voting.

 

[Michelle and crew]

So if you have someone who, starting at eighteen, has a child every five years (extreme but not impossible), she could conceivably not be scheduled for thirty years?

Have you ever known anyone to do that? If someone is that crazy all the more power to them. If you want to do so, have at it. We can play the pretend game until we are blue in the face. But in reality most people are serving, and the court systems are getting by.

Common sense is an amazing thing. Courts that work with the people have a jury supply. Straight from our bailiff's mouth.