Agree to Disagree! DISUnplugged Show March 22!

[KingLlama]

I like to spread it out, too. I usually ride one attraction a day, and stay for 46 days.

 

[Alicenwonderment]

I just get a bad feeling with all the add on charges. I actually won't stand around and watch the parades and fireworks. That is the best time to do the rides. Does this mean all of the people that can't find a spot will be on the rides? I have great memories of going on rides more then once in a row with fireworks going off. That experience was Thunder Mt. People need to watch those parades so I can have quicker lines. lol

 

[aspen37]

This how I feel about what has been happing at WDW lately.

Disney was known for their service and the "Disney difference". You paid a premium for that experience. I felt that it was worth the money.
In the last couple of years I don't feel like the CM's are as well trained as before so, service is suffering. When you start charging a service fee, which Pete has said that it is coming and also you are charging exorbitant amounts of money for EMH's so that you can actually enjoy your luxury vacation, I feel like it starts to tarnish your brand.

For me this is not about money. I have the money to spend on all this extra stuff. But, if I'm going to spend $5000 for a vacation for just myself I do want to feel like the value is there.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

I like to spread it out, too. I usually ride one attraction a day, and stay for 46 days.

Mr. Iger,

I suspect it "should" be much easier for you to visit the attractions of your choice with little to no wait. Or...do you prefer to approach it like us common folk?

 

[KingLlama]

Mr. Iger,

I suspect it "should" be much easier for you to visit the attractions of your choice with little to no wait. Or...do you prefer to approach it like us common folk?

I've always been a man of the people. And a man of the PeopleMover.

 

[SorcererHeidi]

I wish I was a woman of the People Mover awright - then I'd get on WHATEVER I want WHENEVER I want!!!

 

[andyman8]

I think my frustration comes not with these premium experiences being offered but instead with cutting back standard experiences for these new fee-based experiences. For example, with this Disney After Dark event, if all of a sudden MK is closing at 10pm each night this summer (when it is usually open until as late as 1am) with this event scheduled, that would bother me. Regardless of how you spin it or what "life isn't fair" and "not everyone gets a trophy" cliches you throw at it, that is a cutback, and as I see the prices go up, these cutbacks make it harder to justify the price.

Anyways, the timing of all these changes, cuts, and increases baffles me. I've been following Disney for a long time, and while their marketing and PR departments are far from perfect, it is unlike them to allow the announcements of somewhat substantial raising of ticket prices, "testing" (more like implementing) of preferred parking at parks and resorts, CM and entertainment cutbacks, park hours cutbacks, the resort fee survey, and now these new events all within a month or so. They are usually much more organized with the timing of these types of announcements. The rationale behind much of this seems to be to make up for cost overruns in Shanghai. I've heard some speculation that, for whatever reason, they are actually trying to catch the attention of the mainstream media. As someone in journalism, that certainly appears to be what they're attempting, but I can't quite figure out why.

 

[SunnyKYLake]

I guess I'm confused by this definition of fairness.

Guests staying onsite can book fast passes 60 days in advance. Everyone else can book at 30 days.

Seems to me that getting preferred seating has always been based on your salary or savings account.

If you can afford to stay on site, you have a far better chance of getting the space you want...otherwise it's the curb.

I actually think this new option has leveled the playing field.

Now, the options are time versus money, but now it's an option open to everyone.

You get to decide which is more important, your time or your money...but the option to see the fireworks/parade etc is still part of your admission.

In my mind it's like valet parking. It's there if you want it....but the regular parking is still there.

I've only read the replies up to page 8, but this is what I was telling my sister. I don't know what the plans are for this FP+ viewing area, but if it becomes a paid premium viewing area it actually does make this a MORE inclusive option than FP+. (In my opinion anyway) Here's what I mean: As Kevin said, onsite guests have a 30 day jump on offsite guests to book these parade and Fireworks FP+. Of the three trips we've taken this past year, (all offsite) we were closed out of FP+ every single time. Now, I'll say that I did not check every day, 5 times a day to see if any had opened up, but that was my experience - premium viewing wasn't an option so it was "curb sitting" for us. I wonder if Disney found that there wasn't enough capacity here to make FP+ worthwhile and so they thought maybe instead of leaving the area for the mass of humanity to fight it out over these golden spots, they think it's best to keep them "exclusive"?

Anyway, it was our choice to spend 1/4 of the money on offsite accommodations instead of onsite with the BENEFIT of choosing FP+ 30 days earlier. IF this is going to be paid premium viewing, I can now opt to still save bundles on my accommodation and splurge a little on parade viewing. So from my point of view I now have more options as an offsite guest than I did before - and the same can be said of the After Hours Party, it's EMH for the masses (that want to pay a steep price).

(It's a moot point for our family - We wouldn't want the spot anyway...we have found some great spots where we can actually sit on benches or short walls with great views instead of on the ground or having to stand the whole time- and we stake them out about 30-45 minutes before the parades/fireworks start. But we use this time as our rest break, it all goes back to strategic planning and what your priorities are.)

HOWEVER, if Disney roped off all "great viewing" areas such as curbs, benches, short walls, all of Main Street, etc. and made all of it paid premium viewing - I think that is probably going too far. I see a difference in charging for a few very specific locations vs. random sections of walls and sidewalks.

The after party doesn't bother me either, I guess. I mean, it is capitalism, even though there may be some "ick" feeling involved in watching a company grab for more and more consumer money - it's their right to put it out there. (I'm a small business owner, I can't be too judgemental about the free enterprise system) As long as there isn't a diminished experience for regular park goers, I guess this is fine. I don't think I personally would find value in it, but I bet plenty of commando style guests would, especially if they are going to keep attendance limited. If I were a commando, (and I am so not - planner yes, commando no) I'd get to the park at 7:00, see the parades, fireworks, eat some dinner, get through the low wait/no wait rides all while the park was open to day guests then start moving through the E-ticket rides - repeating my favorites until the park closed. And help myself to as many Mickey Bars and bottles of water (or coke!) as I could consume. 7 Hours isn't too shabby if you think about it. And if I was an onsite guest, and this wasn't the only MK EMH for the week, I think I might only do MK for EMH and free up some time for the other parks, relaxing at the pool or dare I say - venture off property! I'd have to run the numbers though to see if the intrinsic value of a noncrowded MK was worth it monetarily.


I will say, I hope Disney is doing plenty of research and surveys to find out guest reaction and satisfaction with the various plans and ideas they have for these types of "exclusive" and "premium" add ons. And I hope they are hearing us when we say that there is a limit to what we will accept. What I hope does not happen is that all the extra things that Disney does in their parks that, to me, set them above and apart from other parks - the fantastic parades, fireworks, streetmosphere, musicians, entertainers, night time shows, daily live shows, characters, etc...goes away or severely diminished or becomes exclusively premium add ons. (I know some of them have gone away and that's not good...let's hope that doesn't continue) All guests who pay admittance to the parks should be able to experience them in some capacity. You hear me Disney, don't close the MK to day guests before the fireworks 5 nights a week - we'll get our pitchforks out!

 

[MrWonderful]

I think my frustration comes not with these premium experiences being offered but instead with cutting back standard experiences for these new fee-based experiences. For example, with this Disney After Dark event, if all of a sudden MK is closing at 10pm each night this summer (when it is usually open until as late as 1am) with this event scheduled, that would bother me. Regardless of how you spin it or what "life isn't fair" and "not everyone gets a trophy" cliches you throw at it, that is a cutback, and as I see the prices go up, these cutbacks make it harder to justify the price.

YES
This is one of my concerns for our trip this June. We like our summer late nights when its cooler and more magical. Disney Calendars are still showing 10pm closings all summer... hopefully that will change soon.

 

[Goofy G]

Chiming in....
As a Disney stockholder I say "yay!" my retirement is secure!
As a visitor I say "boo!" don't mess with my experience!

I don't mind the cost (I won't pay) or the possible inconvenience to other guests (constricting an already limited space for fireworks or shortening hours). It's a business I get it. However, I DO MIND the declining quality of the experience. Many CM's are not as 'magical' as in years past, food quality has gone down or is inconsistent - while costing more! Many days the parks are jam packed to the point of discomfort. Now they want to charge extra to avoid the discomfort they have created?? Pshh!

That said, I'm planning 3 trips in a 7 month window starting in November, just added on more DVC points and bought an annual pass. So, they got me! But, I am happy to limit my expenditures if the parks are too frustrating. Sitting on the patio of my DVC villa eating chips and sipping a drink I brought from off-site is still a fine day for me and cheaper than the signature meals we usually have (I'm talking to you Narcoosee's)

I would like to recommend that every Disney executive or person in a decision-making position, go the the parks on a busy Saturday before voting up or down on any new initiatives. If you see a value added to the experience of the average park-goer then go for it. BUT not until you put some fans up in the BTM queue.

 

[DisneyKevin]

I think my frustration comes not with these premium experiences being offered but instead with cutting back standard experiences for these new fee-based experiences. For example, with this Disney After Dark event, if all of a sudden MK is closing at 10pm each night this summer (when it is usually open until as late as 1am) with this event scheduled, that would bother me. Regardless of how you spin it or what "life isn't fair" and "not everyone gets a trophy" cliches you throw at it, that is a cutback, and as I see the prices go up, these cutbacks make it harder to justify the price.

I did some simple research and I have come up with the following:

The dates currently listed for this after hours event are April 14, 21, 28, May 5, 8, 12 and 19.

These are not usually dates with a closing time of midnight. They are usually slower times.

The current closing times for these dates are the usual 10:00 and 11:00 close times. All of the dates surrounding the dates of this event are similar. They are not closing early in order to hold this event.

The event lets paid guests stay 3 hours after the park closes, meaning 1 or 2 am.

I'm not sure how anyone can view this as a "cutback".

 

[Princess Jes]

I know you're pretty active on the Disney news so you probably have seen this:

http://www.kennythepirate.com/2016/02/26/more-job-cuts-affecting-disney-world-cast-members/
http://www.****************.com/new...sive-cuts-are-happening-all-over-disney-parks
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-disney-layoffs-hours-cut-20160216-story.html
http://wdwnt.com/blog/2016/02/break...ncial-strangle-hold-on-domestic-disney-parks/
http://www.wdwforgrownups.com/artic...yee-hours-makes-other-adjustments-theme-parks

That's hours cut... Not pay as you wrote earlier. There's a very big difference.

O.k. I did a bit of research on when fast pass started. The reason I did this was because I have not been back to the parks since 2000 when I worked there and remembered fast pass being available at that time. There have been many changes to fast pass over the years but it started in 1999. I remember the fast pass lane was always quicker then the stand by lines.

I wanted to add proof. This is taken from an article on Huffington Post. FastPass+:Everything you need to know about Walt Disney World's New System.

The old FASTPASS system, introduced in 1999 to lessen wait times at popular attractions, was relatively straightforward. With no advance reservation system, determined park-goers would race to FASTPASS ticket machines as soon as the parks opened to secure a spot on their favorite rides.

As @disneysteve pointed out, I was referring to the FP+ viewing areas. I cleared that up a few pages back.

 

[Boski]

That's hours cut... Not pay as you wrote earlier. There's a very big difference.

I think I actually put hours and pay. Which I could argue if you don't work any hours you don't get any pay. And to boot, in those articles they also talk about laying people off.

 

[Nezumi Fan]

If Disney wants more of my money then make the ticket prices more expensive, don't give me some tiered experience where I have to count my dollars every time I want to do something. When will Disney World feel like a carnival where I have pay for every experience?

I'm with you on this, Young Padawan. I'd far prefer to pay up, ahead of time, and be able to enjoy the dearly bought illusion of not having to think about it. I hate this nickle and diming; I hate it.

 

[pontikes67]

The point when you know you've been spending too much time on the boards...when you dream that you and @DisneyKevin are hanging out at the Magic Kingdom together

I did some simple research and I have come up with the following:

The dates currently listed for this after hours event are April 14, 21, 28, May 5, 8, 12 and 19.

These are not usually dates with a closing time of midnight. They are usually slower times.

The current closing times for these dates are the usual 10:00 and 11:00 close times. All of the dates surrounding the dates of this event are similar. They are not closing early in order to hold this event.

The event lets paid guests stay 3 hours after the park closes, meaning 1 or 2 am.

I'm not sure how anyone can view this as a "cutback".

My guess is this is a result of their algorithm that is suggesting these earlier closes could garner a "ticketed" event. I have been forwarding info to Pete about the big push in the industry to now use dynamic pricing and this might be the other element to that. I'm reaching out to my friend who is an expert in this strategy and will let you know what I see. This isn't doing away with anything is getting the dollars it can from what would have been a closed park. Hard ticketing it guarantees operational success and will dictate staffing etc to make it profitable.

 

[Nezumi Fan]

@pjweaver yes, but those tiered experiences were tiered from their beginnings. You are missing the point. It isn't that certain options can't be more expensive than others. It is when they take something that was originally not a tiered option, and they make it one.

This.

 

[Vijoge]

My point is that they donated A LOT of money - no bragging needed. Tax write-off or not, if they were money-hungry hounds, they wouldn't give it away at all.

Not really. My husband and I have a combined annual income of about $65,000.00 2 million for Disney is approximately the same as $15 for us. I could hardly expect to be called philanthropic if that's all I gave away.

 

[disneysteve]

I listened to The Fix today and realized that this after party everyone is getting so upset about takes place from 11pm to 2am. This is not happening during normal park hours. Just the fact that it happens that late limits their potential audience. This isn't going to be a big family event. I'm sure some parents would keep their little ones out that late but most probably wouldn't. To be honest, this rules out my wife and I having any interest in this event as well. We're long past the "party all night" phase of our lives. If we were to do this, we'd pretty much lose the following day of our vacation to recovery. No thanks.

I have absolutely no problem with Disney doing this. It's giving them a way to monetize the park at a time when it would normally be closed. I'm sure it will sell out and be a success. I won't be there but I'm sure plenty of others will.

 

[Nezumi Fan]

My concern is this. Even though they have had the vip tours etc for a long time. I still could see the fireworks and just had to sit on curb or stay in one spot. What I worry about is what happens if every day the close the parks at 7 so they can start to have hard ticket events. I believe the hard tickets events are greater in number now then they used to be. The other thing I would be interested in is does Disneyland have the same amount of hard ticket events as Disney World.

It's only recently that we got dining packages. "Fantasmic!" was first, which has (temporarily) been supplanted by "Paint the Night," and at California Adventure, we've got "World of Color" packages. We've no FP+, of course, and until the PtN dining package, no way to reserve seating or viewing location for parades. Definitely no FP+ for parades or fireworks such as "Wishes" at WDW...although I guess that's soon to become pay-to-play at the Magic Kingdom.

The thing about Disneyland is, it is such a different experience to visit. It is, first and foremost, a local's park; because it's right there in the middle of L.A., lots of people just pop by for a Saturday or even a weeknight. Sundays are devoted to the "Gangs of Disneyland," and insofar as crowds fluctuate at all, it's because of blackout dates on the locals AP's. There is a great, great number of teens and young adults--not nearly so many kids as at WDW. There's none of that hyper planning that you see in Florida; too few sit-downs to support ADR culture. Finally, despite what many hoped would be a crowd-reduction measure, the recent Annual Pass price increases seem not to have reduced the number of guests at all. It's bad now; I can barely bring myself to think of what it's going to be like once SWW is opened. A good 20% of the park's shut down right now for construction.

 

[Nezumi Fan]

In the times I've been to Disneyland, the only times I've ever seen the crowds even remotely compare to WDW was the week between Christmas and New Year's so I wouldn't expect to see these kinds of nickel and diming things happening there.

Hi Jackie,

We've had annual passes since about 2006, I guess, and last year managed to hit the park pretty much every other month. Very familiar with crowds at DLR, is what I'm saying.

In my experience, crowds at WDW are nothing like what crowds are like these days at DLR. Like you, I want to believe that the recent increases in annual passes will have a palliative effect on crowd levels, but this does not at all seem to be the case; unless you bought the Signature+ AP, you were blocked out of peak Christmas holiday dates, and yet, if anything, the park seemed even more crowded. It was insane, and recent additions such as "Hyperspace Mountain" (with three-hour+ waits!) only made things worse.

A good 20% of the park at DLR is now shut down because of Star Wars Land construction -- no Fantasmic!, no DLRR, no Rivers of America -- and, honestly, that area was already a chokepoint. Capacity is less at DLR, because of size (WDW has four parks!), and local attendance outstrips any other demographic. In short, crowds are murderous, and if there's no nickle and diming to the extent we're seeing at WDW...give it time. Give it time.