Agree to Disagree! DISUnplugged Show March 22!

[EricInPA]

While there's no confirmation of EMH and evening hours going away completely, let's say all of this is the sign of things to come.

I do not want to be included in that group. I'll criticize Disney for things they have done, not things that people think they might do.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I mean, it could very likely be for the person who never has stayed onsite and never realized that it's all included, but it certainly sticks out for people more in the know...like, what are you getting at???

Well, I think they also like the stress that and the Magical Express so that people feel they can get by without renting a car and thus are "stuck" on Disney property. Now obviously there are things like Uber, etc. - but if you don't have a car but have free transportation to where all of Disney's restaurants are you are much more likely to do that rather than go eat off site or *gasp* go to Universal

 

[DisneyKevin]

I have told this story previously, but I think it bears repeating.

For a while, I was into the pin trading phenomenon. I went to the planned trading meets. I paid fees to attend special events. I was in deep.

At one event, I was speaking to an executive and the conversation came up about conditions that pin traders thought effected them adversely and needed to be fixed.

He explained to me that Disney loves their loyal following, but they are a drop in the bucket compared to the casual guest.

Die hard pin collectors may spend (as a group) $5000.00 a day on pins. Across property, the casual guests buying a pin or two would probably spend $70,000.00.

Disney is concerned about making sure that casual guest has a good time and drops as much money as Disney can squeeze out.

i know it's cynical to believe, but the VAST majority of people visiting Disney on any given day are not diehard fans. They are casual fans on vacation.

If Disney were overly concerned about diehard fans, the restrictions and costs of annual passes would have decreased instead of increased.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

To me, it's not so much a matter of "if I can still afford it." While there's no confirmation of EMH and evening hours going away completely, let's say all of this is the sign of things to come. To me, I have a hard time swallowing the idea of an extra $219 a day (even if I can afford it) to get early morning and evening access to the parks, when all of this was previously something included in general admission. Obviously, Disney is a business and if the market is there, the certainly have the authority to change things up and charge for this, but is it really worth it? And that's a personal question for every guest to answer. If you or any other guest thinks it is, that's your choice. For me and others, it would be my call to give Disney a rest. It doesn't mean taking cheap vacations...just either more trips or visiting pricey destinations where I feel like I'm getting my $s. worth.

I do think it can be dangerous to argue using "signs of things to come" - if we only use what has actually been officially announced by WDW - we are talking about extra hours for a fee on nights when there was no EMH and thus the park would have be closed. Does that negatively impact the "base" experience for a visitor?

Some other changes, such as removing the FP+ for parade, the removing the 2nd check point for FP+ scanning, and other things that to me are about cost savings, I feel have a bigger negative impact on that base experience more than these extra hours.

 

[pontikes67]

i know it's cynical to believe, but the VAST majority of people visiting Disney on any given day and not diehard fans. They are casual fans on vacation.

THIS!

99.9% of my friends here at home (and likely yours too) that have gone to Disney, have been once, and will likely NEVER set foot on Disney Property again...they spent their 7 or $8K for their big family vacation and that's that.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

THIS!

99.9% of my friends here at home (and likely yours too) that have gone to Disney, have been once, and will likely NEVER set foot on Disney Property again...they spent their 7 or $8K for their big family vacation and that's that.

Absolutely - but wouldn't Disney want that family to have an amazing time and come home and tell all their friends so they then plan their $8,000 vacation? And are the way they heading going to lead to that or lead to that family coming home and saying "well, it was really good - but there was all this extra stuff that you could pay for and get better views to things and access to more hours, etc. and we missed out on that as we weren't prepared to pay another $2,000" ... although the flip side is they could also say "we had a really great time and you should go - just know if you spent $10,000 instead of $8,000 you will have an even more amazing time so make sure you spend $10,000!!!!"

Ok, now I am just arguing with myself (hey, at least I might win one argument then)

 

[pontikes67]

Absolutely - but wouldn't Disney want that family to have an amazing time and come home and tell all their friends so they then plan their $8,000 vacation? And are the way they heading going to lead to that or lead to that family coming home and saying "well, it was really good - but there was all this extra stuff that you could pay for and get better views to things and access to more hours, etc. and we missed out on that as we weren't prepared to pay another $2,000" ... although the flip side is they could also say "we had a really great time and you should go - just know if you spent $10,000 instead of $8,000 you will have an even more amazing time so make sure you spend $10,000!!!!"

Ok, now I am just arguing with myself (hey, at least I might win one argument then)

I really think the 'casual vacationer' has NO CLUE...they already thought you paid extra for Fast Pass etc.

 

[EricInPA]

although the flip side is they could also say "we had a really great time and you should go - just know if you spent $10,000 instead of $8,000 you will have an even more amazing time so make sure you spend $10,000!!!!"

When friends and family ask me questions about planning a Disney vacation, I'm pretty honest with them in both directions: there are ways to travel to Disney that will minimize costs and allow you to have a fantastic vacation for not much more than other destinations. But there are also a lot of extra things available if they interest you, but they are usually expensive (from character dining to tours, etc).

The "average family can't afford!" argument gets thrown around a lot here, but the reality is Disney already has the reputation of being very expensive. Often people are surprised when I give them prices because they thought it was even more than that.

 

[DisneyKevin]

You can go on an all inclusive Disney Cruise for $6000.00

You will have a wonderful vacation.

Everything is included.

Except, dinner / brunch at Palo, drinks, spa appointments, shore excursions, in store purchases etc.

Can you have a WONDERFUL time at the base price of a cruise? Of course you can. People do it all the time.

Can you spend a huge amount of money to enhance your cruise? Of course you can. People do it all the time.

Are the people spending money on cruise enhancements taking away from those that can't or don't want to do that? No?

Should Disney change the pricing structure so that all of the enhancements are included in EVERYONE'S pricing? That seems like the answer should be no as well.

 

[mnra]

I consider Disney my happy place. My concern is I won't be able to go someday to my happy place with my kids and grandkids.

 

[pontikes67]

@TheMaxRebo I got this text one day:

Hi Scott! My brother is a good friend of xxxxx n was told u r the disney guy! Lol I'm sorry to bother u! Was just wondering if we r staying at a hotel ( xxxnicehotelxxx ) for five days next week n our kids r 10( boy) 9 ( girl) and 8( boy) what we should see. ? Hollywood or universal? Epcot? Or any other wAter parks? We have tickets on Tuesday to discovery cove ( which come with passes to seaworld n Busch gardens) for my daughters bday. But my boys love anything fast n fun! N they love to make movies on their iPads! Ha we have been to magic kingdom n animal kingdom . Trying to think what else! I'm seeing if universal or Hollywood r closer to our hotel?

Please Lmk if you have a chance! I'm sorry to bother you!!! I heard you know what you are talking about!

I gave him my 2 cents and then received:

Wow!! That's awesome advice thank you so much quick question what is WDW?

and then:

Ohhh! I should have known!!! Ok last question.., do u know a person that does that concierge service that has no wait lines etc
Do u happen to know if u buy a pass to get into Hollywood do I get in to see the night parade at disney? Magic kingdom?

finally there was this:

Ok so I can buy multi day pass but it will not include discovery cove right?

Discovery Cove? huh?

This person is probably the 'typical' traveler...and he will gladly open his wallet and pay for any of it and not know if it's included or not and probably won't care.

 

[KingLlama]

SIDE NOTE: I just accidentally printed an entire page of this thread to the office printer out in the common area. I didn't realize I had done it until someone yelled out "WHICH ONE OF YOU IS KING LLAMA AND DO PEOPLE REALLY ARGUE ABOUT DISNEY WORLD ON THE INTERNET?!"

That was a dose of reality.

Okay, as you were.....

 

[EricInPA]

@pontikes67, I think we talk to the same people (somehow).

 

[kbelle8995]

SIDE NOTE: I just accidentally printed an entire page of this thread to the office printer out in the common area. I didn't realize I had done it until someone yelled out "WHICH ONE OF YOU IS KING LLAMA AND DO PEOPLE REALLY ARGUE ABOUT DISNEY WORLD ON THE INTERNET?!"

That was a dose of reality.

Okay, as you were.....

Once again you win the internet. I really had to smile over that. Okay maybe I chuckled.

 

[pontikes67]

@KingLlama, I am a self proclaimed DISNerd! If I had a real job, I wouldn't have time to laugh at your one liners.

Once again you win the internet. I really had to smile over that. Okay maybe I chuckled.

Don't be stealing my schtick

I say who does and doesn't win the internet...

Okay, @KingLlama wins the internet again.

 

[kbelle8995]

@KingLlama, I am a self proclaimed DISNerd! If I had a real job, I wouldn't have time to laugh at your one liners.

Don't be stealing my schtick

I say who does and doesn't win the internet...

Okay, @KingLlama wins the internet again.

Sorry I do wonder if KingLlama collected the paper or ignored the person yelling.

Inquiring minds want to know KingLlama

 

[SarahDisney]

Sorry I do wonder if KingLlama collected the paper or ignored the person yelling.

That was my thought as well. Has @KingLlama outed himself at work?

 

[KingLlama]

Waited until they were done asking. Watched them leave it sitting on the printer. Slyly walked by the printer and grabbed the sheets. Made a beeline back to my office, where they now meet their fate:

 

[ChadR11]

I have no problem with premium events and opportunities ... as long as they're not taking anything away from those who can't afford (or don't want) to pay those prices. When you start taking away my ability to experience something because you want to only offer that opportunity to people who are willing to pay big bucks for it. If this $150 after hours event is in addition to EMH (and EMH are still included for onsite guests), I have no problem with it. But if they start taking away EMH and instead offering the paid after dark as the only way to stay past the regular park hours ... I will be more than a little disappointed.
Same thing with FP+ ... if you want to offer someone the opportunity to purchase extra FP+ in advance (or offer extra FP+ in advance to certain hotels), I don't love that idea, but I'm okay with it ... as long as I can still pull up my app and get more FP+ in the park once I've finished my first three. If it's "3 FP+ a day included and pay extra for any additional" ... that I'm not okay with.

This was my thought as I listened to the show yesterday. The only "extra" thing I've ever paid for is the halloween and christmas parties. I have no interest in doing anything else that they charge for because in my opinion, it costs way more than what I feel it's worth. But I stay on property to get the extra things like EMH and magicbands and free transportation, etc. Taking away stuff that used to be free is what I don't like.

 

[amberg93]

For approximately 40 odd years, people found places to sit and watch the parade / fireworks without the benefit of fast passes. Parade / Fireworks fast passes were relatively new and now they are gone.

I have never had a parade fastness or paid for a seat (I have had special seating as part of an ABD trip) and it has never stopped me from seeing a parade.

For that mythical family that can't afford to buy parade seats and / or can't or won't scope out a seat on a curb....do what thousands and thousands of other visitors do. Find the best viewing area when the parade starts or do something else.

If your mythical family's vacation is ruined because they can not have the exact seat they want to watch the parade moments prior to the start of the parade, they are in for a MUCH ruder awakening in all parts of Disney World.

There are only so many PERFECT seats and people pay for them with money or time.

I think we're still misunderstanding each other. I didn't say that their trip would be ruined, but I think the old option made it much better and I know it's only a few years old but for some of this, it has been the norm of all our trips.

When I didn't have fastpasses I could see the parade, but then I had to deal with people standing in front of me, putting their kids up atop their shoulders so I couldn't see and the lot. I liked the option and I think families liked the option that they'd had a choice.

Like, for many years people didn't have microwaves to reheat food and only used stoves. If microwaves were to suddenly sky rocket in cost, people could get by without them again, but that doesn't mean it isn't easier and better for the vast majority to have access to them if they want the option for an affordable price. That's what I'm saying. This won't ruin someone's trip, but it might make it more difficult and planning a Disney trip and trying to fit in as much as possible on low amounts of money/time is already difficult enough. Why not make it easier?

I think the question though is do these additional experiences really bring down the value of the base? I know you mentioned one good example of the FP+ for parades/fireworks going away (though, there hasn't been anything official about this being replaced with a pap-per-view option - others thinking it is just cost cutting to not have to have a CM stationed there) and I think the extra morning pay hours could negatively impact rope drop for others.

If these truly are and stay as "extras" that really don't negatively impact the base, then they can be viewed just like other extras in the past (some people can afford to stay on site and some can't ... some people can afford character meals and some can't).

I agree with all of this. I think it just needs to be that there are options for everyone and that you aren't taking away things while continuing to charge more.