ADHD and selfishness?

[Wishing on a star]

Yes, if you simply must, you need to compare her to 5 year olds... or better yet, do not subject this situation to ANY comparison with neurotypical, biological children.... Otherwise, you are standing there with a shovel, digging yourself deeper and deeper into a hole. You are setting up unfair and unrealistic comparisons/expectations that are guaranteed failure.

It is typical for any child in this girl's situation to be self-centered... and even MORE importantly to push EVERY SINGLE BOUNDARY and limit with her new parents/authority figures.... It is, actually, to be expected. This child has been disappointed, unloved, and abandoned by everyone that she needed to care about her to survive.... She is out make you PROVE that, no matter what... no matter how selfish and unlovable she may behave, that you might not be the next. It's CLASSIC.... It is almost like setting up a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And, if the therapist you are seeing is not experienced and skilled in these kind of adoption issues.... then they will, also. be looking at this from the wrong vantage point.

The one thing that we're still battling with her, though, is extremely selfish behavior... We have two sons, one younger than her and one older. She is always concerned that she is getting to do as much or more than they are and is always trying to see what all she can get from us or other relatives.

This is not only uncommon, it is to be expected....
You say the temper tantrums are quickly coming more under control...
You seem to be saying that 'SELFISHNESS' is your big concern.
With this child, this is where myself, and others, are trying to convey to you that your expectations regarding any selfishness issue could be unrealistic and a bit off the mark. Again.... pick your battles.

Many children in this girl's situation not only seem 'selfish', because they have never been in a normal family/group dynamic... But they commonly even go as far as to 'hoard' things.

It still sounds, to me, as if this is the first time you have ever really heard of, or considered, these types of adoption issues.

My advice again, is to become better informed, and to seek an actual adoption expert.

The causes and effects and necessary actions and pathways and methods with this child could be very, very, different that what you may think you know from parenting your two bio children.

 

[canadianjovigirl]

We adopted our son from the foster care system and he was not quite 7 when placed with us. He had severe neglet and abuse issues as well as being diagnosed with odd and rad. Over time i came to realize that this kid did not have any attachment issues and his odd disappeared. We found our own therapist who then diagnosed him with FAE and we changed how we parent him and all has been good. He has no abnormal behavior issues, has made great strides in school and is the most compassionate boy his age i know (he is almost 13 now).

Please dont give up quite yet as each child is different and each one has their own history and you never know the difference you can make in a childs life. The first few years i was doubting if i could do it and would make it thru with him, but to see now how far he has come is worth every tear that soaked my pillow and all the heartache i felt was minimal compare to what this little guy had been thru and was trying to work thru.

And yes its very common for kids in care to be immature...........they can and do catch up. Our son was also the middle child in between our bio girls............and it took time to find his place in the family and gain security.

 

[Lorix2]

My son is ADHD/ODD and is 13. I also have a daughter who is 19 and they could not be more opposite in personalities.

ODD is not a condition resulting from a lack of good parenting. ODD is more about defiance that can they cannot control. They lack fear of consequence and authority. Kids with ODD will always feel that any discipline you try or have already handed out is a complete injustice to them and they really can't understand the behavior is not tolerated until they have time to reflect on it, but in the moment, there's NO turning them around. I have to pick my battles with my son. Sometimes that's to ignore whatever it is because he's not getting my attention whether is negative or positive.

Just yesterday, he woke up in a snit because he stays up all night and had a hard time waking up and getting ready for school and he gave me such a hard time with backtalk, slamming doors and throwing things outside. No matter what I did, said, or threatened would stop him. I let him cool off but he then REFUSED to get in the car to go to school and I had a meeting scheduled in 30 minutes after I would drop him off. He didn't care, it was all about him - selfish I know, but more so he's overwhelmed by his feelings that he cannot control. His whole day was ruined in only 20 minutes

I would not wish truly diagnosed ODD on anyone. It's truly an illness and that can turn a family against each other with all the stress and feeling helpless and the lack of control you feel when dealing with these kids. As hard as it is for us, my heart breaks for my son because I can imagine what it's like for him to live it and know he's got a hard road ahead of him.

I wish you all the best.

 

[ms.yt]

My advice again, is to become better informed, and to seek an actual adoption expert.

The causes and effects and necessary actions and pathways and methods with this child could be very, very, different that what you may think you know from parenting your two bio children.

I'm not sure what you mean by an "actual adoption expert." The therapist she sees is at a mental health care facility and works exclusively with children in or that have been in the therapeutic foster care system. She has been working with her for almost two years.

I realize that she's going to be different from our other children. Even if we didn't know that going in to this, we had multiple sessions with the therapist before she was living with us to help prepare us to deal with a child that had her issues. However, what she seemed to be most concerned with was the ODD, which we seem to have a handle on.

While on the subject of ODD, let me clarify what I said in my original post. I didn't mean to imply that I thought all ODD was a function of bad parenting. I meant that in her case, I think that's where it comes from. I realize there are parents dealing with ODD who have other children without it that were parented virtually the same. To me, the fact that she has vastly improved in the short time she's been with us signals to me that a lot of her issues were just that she got results from bad behavior in the past. Her therapist agrees with this assessment, and she also has seen a big improvement from her in the past two years in regards to her ODD issues.

She had an appointment today, and I talked to her again about the selfishness. She said what some of you have said that it's probably not necessarily the ADHD but more of the fact that she didn't get much attention from her birth mother. She seems to think that as she has with the other issues, that she will continue to improve about this as she feels more comfortable in our home and family. I also mentioned the possibility of RAD to her, and she immediately said there was no way that she had it. From the limited amount of information I've read about it, I would say that I agree with her.

Although it's hard at times, I really believe that we can work on her behavior issues. Most of the time, she's a happy, delightful child. She shows concern for others, but she just also is looking out for herself a lot of the time. As others have said, that is understandable given her situation. We knew it was going to be a bumpy road, especially with adopting an older child, but I really think she has the potential with us to have a good, productive life.

I guess I just needed to vent a little and hear from some other people in similar situations. We live in a very small community, so there are not a lot of people around who have adopted.

 

[Liberty Belle]

ADHD can be so different on each person that it would be hard to say that "YES, it's the ADHD" or "No, it's not."

My gut reaction to your post is that her selfishness is a behavorial byproduct of instability in her first 7 years or maybe she got NOTHING for so long that she cannot handle herself now. It's almost like an insecurity.

I think the ADHD does nothing to help that situation because most people with ADHD have poor impulse control so she probably just has a hard time suppressing those feelings that, I'm sure, a lot of 7 year olds have.

I would think, with time and consistency, you can calm this behavior down. I would assume that she's relatively new to your household and is trying to find a way to fit in or figure out how she fits in.

I agree.

Congratulations, OP. I'm sure she's a lovely little girl who will benefit from good, stable parenting.

 

[divabydisney]

Not reading all the other responses, I will give you my experience, maybe it will help, maybe not. First of all, thumbs up for trying to address the issue.

I have a DS who is 12. He has ODD, ADHD, and severe anxiety. He is almost opposite of what you described 99% of the time. I say this because he goes out of his way to show compassion. However, there are certain times where he completely struggles in that area. After years of therapy we have found out the following. 1) ODD can only be tackled through behavioral therapy. Thankfully my DS seems to be outgrowing his a long time ago. 2) His father has been absent most of his life and there is very little interaction, maybe 3-4 times a year max. He manifests that anger and subconciously acts out and becomes "selfish" when random situations arise. He doesn't even always know why he does this. A lot of things "aren't fair". We fight this regularly. 3) He is extremely intelligent as are most ADHD kids however he is extremely emotionally immature. We struggle primarily with super low self-esteem and thus appears he has "selfish" attitude and then it can turn into a cycle. 4) Meds/eating sched are critical. Even if he takes his meds regularly, he tends to act out if his blood sugar is low. The dr swears by following a stringent schedule. Amazingly once we started this, they were right, his behavior improved. Make sure her meds are monitored or changed regularly with any increase/decrease in weight. What we found is that his meds made him not hungry which is common side effect, he then didn't eat creating low blood sugar, he turned into a monster all the time between 1-2 pm and right before dinner. Especially if he had a hard pe class or recess in there. These are just some suggestions, things we worked through. I don't have girls but can tell you from friends I know, girls are diva-ish and can all be part of that. And lastly, Lord knows I love my son, but he can be a master manipulator, especially if it's something he wants. We've worked through it mostly but it was real tough for awhile. Hang in there and work closely with dr/therapists to get her on the right track. Good Luck.

 

[divabydisney]

Lorix2- you just described my son some mornings. LOL And I agree, I would't wish it on anyone.

I unfortunately found out when i was 8 mo pregnant that his father and dad's mom lied to me. DS dad was in mental institutions and had issues his whole life. His mom refused to help him and stay on his meds. When he turned 18, he was basically on his own. After I found all this out while pregnant, his mom finally admitted that she lied to me so that someone would take him off her hands. I felt used and upset. Now that I have a son who has these issues, its easy to get mad at the situation. My parents and family have a hard time dealing with him, thus leaving me to deal with him by myself. Being a single mom to him and another younger DS leaves me emotionally exhausted most days. But in the end, I don't want to see him suffer and can't turn my back on him. They are all really good kids just in need of the right family.

 

["Got Disney"]

My son is ADHD/ODD and is 13. I also have a daughter who is 19 and they could not be more opposite in personalities.

ODD is not a condition resulting from a lack of good parenting. ODD is more about defiance that can they cannot control. They lack fear of consequence and authority. Kids with ODD will always feel that any discipline you try or have already handed out is a complete injustice to them and they really can't understand the behavior is not tolerated until they have time to reflect on it, but in the moment, there's NO turning them around. I have to pick my battles with my son. Sometimes that's to ignore whatever it is because he's not getting my attention whether is negative or positive.

Just yesterday, he woke up in a snit because he stays up all night and had a hard time waking up and getting ready for school and he gave me such a hard time with backtalk, slamming doors and throwing things outside. No matter
what I did, said, or threatened would stop him. I let him cool off but he then REFUSED to get in the car to go to school and I had a meeting scheduled in
30 minutes after I would drop him off. He didn't care, it was all about him -
selfish I know, but more so he's overwhelmed by his feelings that he cannot
control. His whole day was ruined in only 20 minutes

I would not wish truly diagnosed ODD on anyone. It's truly an illness and that can turn a family against each other with all the stress and feeling helpless and the lack of control you feel when dealing with these kids. As hard as it is for us, my heart breaks for my son because I can imagine what it's like for him to live it and know he's got a hard road ahead of him.

I wish you all the best.

Well spoken....and the problem you have with the morning I have also...and yes...in 20 minutes the whole day gets set off in a different direction....ODD is not bad parenting....sooooooo not.

 

[ms.yt]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";41410665]Well spoken....and the problem you have with the morning I have also...and yes...in 20 minutes the whole day gets set off in a different direction....ODD is not bad parenting....sooooooo not.[/QUOTE]

Again, the reason I say that is because we don't have issues like that with her. I'm doubting if she actually has ODD, not saying that all kids with ODD have bad parents.

 

[quasar4legs]

Just wanted to wish your family all the best for your future.

An an adoptee and an adoptive mum I have a great deal of admiration for what you are doing for this little girl.

I wish you all peace and happiness

 

[Styx Fan]

I am the parent of a biological 14 year old son with ADHD and ODD. And I am also the mother of a 7 year old daughter adopted from Korea at 6 months old. My daughter was adopted as an infant and has not displayed any emotional/psychological conditions. But I am a person who always does my best to be educated in topics around my kids, so I am pretty familiar with adoption issues as well as ADHD/ODD.

If the OP's daughter's ODD behavior has improved so much over 2 months, I strong doubt she really has ODD. ODD does not improve that quickly with any kind of help or parenting. If consistent, loving, wonderful parenting could improve it that quickly you could write a book and make a mint from all of us other ODD parents

What I see being described with your little girl is a combo of adoption issues and just being 7. Besides being impulsive and thinking before speaking, I have never seen any link with being selfish and ODD. Previous posters have done a great job of describing ODD. 2 months into this relationship you have only begun scratching the tip of the iceberg on this child and her behaviors. She is still feeling her way, as are you.

I'm actually concerned that you are so worried already about her perceived selfish behavior. I have seen very few kids who would ever be that into donating to a cause so young...especially one that has no relevance to the child's experiences. I really don't think any of the kids I know could live up to your expectations at her age. And especially on their own. Blending a child with such a traumatic past (even without knowing her history, you can be sure she has trauma by simple virtue of coming to your family the way she has) into an existing family is a long, slow process. Heck, at 6 months my daughter still took many months to really show her true personality...despite the fact she seemed happy and well adjusted. She just kept unfolding like a special little flower. And this is common. I know you have been working with this therapist, but it just doesn't sound like you were adequately prepared for the reality of adopting an older child. The work can be as hard as the rewards

Edited to add: You may want to look around for a BB for adoptive parents. I am on one from Holt Adoption Agency, but it really deals more with International Adoptions. You may still want to check it out as many adopt older kids or kids with special needs.

 

[justhat]

I have a 7yo biological daughter, as well as 2 other biological kids. Your post could have described my 7yo, minus the ADHD and ODD. She is always, always comparing what she gets to what her siblings get (more than my 4yo son does, though he's starting to pick up in that department lately). She is always concerned about her. If she doesn't like it, then sure as heck no one else will be getting whatever it is cause it would inconvenience her. The world ends when things don't go her way. And donate her birthday stuff to sick kids? Ha!

Now, she's not always like this. Sometimes she goes out of her way to be sure that her siblings are happy, giving away the last cookie if she knows it's her brother's favorite, or letting him pick a movie even though she doesn't like that one, etc.. But she can turn into Ms. Selfish on a dime.

So, afaic, your 7yo is 100% normal.

 

[heartsy77]

We are in the process of adopting a seven year-old girl who has been diagnosed with ADHD and ODD. I think there is no doubt that she has ADHD, but the ODD to me is really just a function of the lack of good parenting she's had for the past seven years. Her "oppositional" behavior is less and less of an issue the more that she sees that we don't let her get her way by throwing a tantrum. The one thing that we're still battling with her, though, is extremely selfish behavior. We have two sons, one younger than her and one older. She is always concerned that she is getting to do as much or more than they are and is always trying to see what all she can get from us or other relatives.

I don't know if this kind of behavior is a result of ADHD or growing up to this point without a lot of consideration by the adults in her life. We are trying to make her understand that she isn't the center of the universe, but it's a challenge. The other day we were in Dollar General and someone there mentioned that a local group was collecting items for the Joplin tornado victims. I thought we'd buy a few things, and I told her what we were doing and explained what had happened. She seemed to care for about half a minute and then she started seeing things that she wanted and only seemed to care about that.

I guess what I'm wondering if anybody else who has a child with ADHD experiences some of these same issues. If so, what have you done to try to get them over it to some degree? I understand that kids will think of themselves a lot, but we just want her to not always put herself first. The "me, me, me" attitude is something we are really trying to work on.

My dd (15 1/2) with ADHD, ODD has always been selfishand she still throws temper trantrums when she does not get her way. I tend be a very structured in my parenting skills; needless to say she is rude, mean, and defiant 75% of the time. Mornings are the worst for her; getting her out of bed and to the bus is a nightmare! (She is currently in her room screaming because she doesn't want to get up and get ready).

My recommendation to you is try to take classes specifically for children with these issues, or go to family counseling as this is going to effect of all of you. Good luck!

 

[torinsmom]

I think I understand what the OP is saying about the ODD being a result of bad parenting. I think she is wondering if the diagnosis is incorrect, and that the behavior is more environmental than genetic. So bad parenting cause the oppositional behavior that caused the child to be diagnosed at ODD.

We have a child with ODD in our class(for 2 more days, thank God). He is very exasperating. When something doesn't go the way he wants, the whole world is against him. He screams and yells and stomps his feet and there is NO reasoning with him. Just to be fair, he is charming, articulate and very sweet, when he is not being oppositional. Although I do feel his mom is not totally consistent with how she handles his behavior, she didn't cause the ODD, and can't fix it. I pray for her every night, because I know it must be one of the hardest things in the world to walk on egg shells every day, hoping that something doesn't set him off.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I'm actually concerned that you are so worried already about her perceived selfish behavior.

Yes, this.....

These kinds of 'expectations' and labels and concerns with a small child in this girl's situation... Just not the way to go.

 

[Lorix2]

We have a child with ODD in our class(for 2 more days, thank God). He is very exasperating. When something doesn't go the way he wants, the whole world is against him. He screams and yells and stomps his feet and there is NO reasoning with him. Just to be fair, he is charming, articulate and very sweet, when he is not being oppositional. Although I do feel his mom is not totally consistent with how she handles his behavior, she didn't cause the ODD, and can't fix it. I pray for her every night, because I know it must be one of the hardest things in the world to walk on egg shells every day, hoping that something doesn't set him off.

I know it's exasperating. Your comment though a reflection of your true feelings and you're entitled to them - is a bit hurtful as a mother of an ODD child. How fortunate you are that you won't have this child in your class much longer. As consistent as we try to be with my son, it's not as easy as you may think it is for us as his parents. That's all - just had to get that out.

 

[RitaE]

Really I think you are expecting way too much of this little girl, even without regard to whatever diagnosis she might have.

You friend's daughter has had years of conditioning where she has learned positive reinforcement from such actions. She knows that when she donates her allowance - Mom and Dad's hearts swell with pride and they praise her and then brag about her to their friends. She also knows that almost without a doubt, more allowance will be forthcoming at the next payday. She also knows (without a doubt) that if she needs something before them - she has a solid family unit who she can rely on.

Your daughter has had two months in a family that she's still trying to figure out. Before that - she has very likely been conditioned into selfishness as survival. At it's nature selfishness is using your resources to meet your needs - self-reliance. It is a survival skill.

Imagine this. Your very first trip to Disney somebody takes you to the most spectacular place in there. You're running around looking at some of the most wonderful sights you could ever imagine. Then some lady puts a halt to your exploration and tells you that the Gorgons from Kanine have experienced a Kerpluffy that has destroyed all their Zoogons and you need to quit looking at all the beautiful and fun things you see and instead devote the next 30 minutes in sympathy with their plight.

Do you have it in you?

 

[FINFAN]

A lot of kids/adults with ADD/ADHD really need contant stimulation or activity that can be perceived as selfishness. Kids without it can go off and read, do low key type things, but ADD/ADHD will generally keep asking friends family whoever to be joining them in a game, activity, have a NEED to keep going which can appear as being all about them, and it kinda is, but they aren't doing it in a selfish manner, just looking for that stimulation. Since they know what satisfying "feeling" or activity will usually bring them relief, it can seem like they are selfish, but really they are just trying to cope. Low key/low attention/low activity doesn't usually suffice the need so they are annoying to those who can go low key. Actually, most ADD/ADHD kids I have dealt with are extremely loyal and caring, they just have to be constantly involved in something or they feel left out like they are missing something or bored. Sounds like a lot of changes in a short time for all involved.

 

[southern_redhead]

You mention that she is still seeing the therapist that she saw in foster care and this therapist blows off your concerns. That is red flag. Can you change therapists? I would be looking for a family therapist, your whole family will likely need help in adjusting.

I can see where it's a fine line between does the child actually have ODD or has she just not had experience with boundaries. My youngest can be very defiant, he can save some awful fits. I try to be very consistent with him. His grandparents have a harder time (he's the baby, it's easier to give in then listen to a fit, etc..) so I really have to be careful in the time he spends there. It took a long time, but my mom got on board and his visits to her house cause less upset when he comes back home.

The selfishness could be part of her personality. Some people are just score keepers (I am, I just try to remember that I am an adult and I am not dependent on others making something happen/giving me or my kids something....if they do for someone else but not for me or mine then *I* can do those things for myself.) She isn't old enough to reason that out yet. It could also be that she wants to make sure she is important to you. At seven she probably knows that your boys are YOURS and they will stay with you whether you are sometimes mad at them or not. Perhaps she sees getting things as approval - and she needs MORE than they do so that she knows you approve of her and will keep her? I'm not saying you should buy her more, that is unfair to you children. I'm just saying maybe addressing "We simply cannot buy you that right now, but you did get X just like the boys. We love you and you are ours now, there is lots of time for us to do things together and buy other things." would be a comfort to her. Or maybe not, I neither have a degree in therapy nor stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night

I would reiterate what another poster voiced. I would want to make sure my biological children weren't scarred by this situation. Be sure you are up to the task of parenting this child, be sure they are up to the task of living with her. It is noble of you to want to give an unwanted and unloved child a home, however, you need to be sure that it won't cause your own children problems down the road.

 

[Crystal0608]

My ds is 9 and has adhd & an anxiety disorder. My dd is 10 and ag. When one gets something, the other wants something, same with sleepovers, going to parties, etc. Plain sibling rivalry is all that is, labels have nothing to do with it. If they go into a store, they will want something, as do their friends. Sometimes I say yes, sometimes no. Both of my kids are very sweet, but if I asked them about donating birthday money, they'd look at me like a had two heads. Having an ADHD child can be a handful sometimes as mine is very impulsive, wants something now even if something better will be later, etc. Your 7 year old sounds like a normal kid.