Abstinence Pledge Survey

[chobie]

I can see your point about just kinda yelling out and confirming his daughter's virtue as it were........people are funny sometimes......I would have probably said something like "Here is my daughter, Rookie of the Year!!" ....and then my wife would smack me in the back of the head and the guests would move on to demolish the hors d'oevres........without further ado......


But, a Father is charged with protecting his children in all ways.....it is part of "The Code".....in fact, I cannot think of a Father, in good standing, who would ever loudly proclaim at a wedding how proud they were that she "took care of that whole virgin thing while she was young......she is AP-gifted".......just checked it off the list.....

/s that's just a little joke of course.....


You are right, there is quite a bit of middle ground between the two extremes though.....one has zero chance of STD......the other is a mathematical certainty for some sort of discomfort "down below" at some point.

Of course, just because they are married does not mean they can't get an STD -- their spouses may not be virgins when married and/or they may cheat at some time. Also any sex can lead to discomfort "down below" and in fact, childbirth is known for creating quite a bit of discomfort "down below" at least for the females. So, if the code is to protect them from ever getting discomfort down below at some point, perhaps you should make sure your children never have sex during their lives.

 

[Mr Man]

Nice try but I didn't say Muslim. There is nothing in the Koran about honor killings or female genital mutilations and in fact, those practices predate the Muslim religion. That some of the cultures that are violent and controlling of women also happen to be predominantly Muslim does not mean those atrocities I mentioned are "Muslim culture." However, it may be ethnocentric of me to point out that I do not want OUR American culture to go the way of other cultures that prize female virginity above all other female virtues, and if so, I will own being ethnocentric. I do think equality of women and laws that protect a woman's autonomy over her body is a big part of what makes our country and its culture so great.

I know (that was pretty sneaky of you). Wish I had thought of that earlier.........

but at least I still have my snazzy slacks n boots.....

 

[chobie]

I know (that was pretty sneaky of you). Wish I had thought of that earlier.........

but at least I still have my snazzy slacks n boots.....

What part of those practices I mentioned are not exclusive to Muslims, are not mentioned in the Koran and all predate The Muslim religion don't you get? But, the Bible had some pretty horrible treatment of women. A woman who married and was not a virgin was to be stoned to death (the same did not apply to men) so I will go out on a limb and say most of the world's organized religions have some horrible treatment of women which is why our country is a great country for not letting an organized religion's views be legislated.

 

[torinsmom]

Boys are actually getting into this "movement" as well. I actually received an invite from someone at church for something called The Silver Ring Thing. I thought it might be a little much for DS and didn't even mention it to him. It was a few months later that he brought up the subject with me and asked for a purity ring. We talked at length about what it meant and how that is a commitment that he may not want to continue later on. He is really insistent that he wants to wait and find a girl who also wants to wait. I am not naive enough to think that this means that he will definitely continue with this commitment, but I also want to support him if this is the way he feels. This is what the paper that came with his ring says:

"Remember the Cross--This cross band symbolizes the love God gave to the world. Wear this ring as a symbol of your faith and your commitment to God's teachings; especially regarding HIS request that you keep yourself pure in actions and thoughts. May you be blessed by your choice to wait for s#x until you are married and allow this band to serve as a daily reminder of the gift you were given upon the cross".

As I said before, we still have ongoing discussions about safe sex and STD's, etc. He needs to be educated, but I am proud that for now, he is committed to waiting.

Marsha

 

[Mr Man]

Of course, just because they are married does not mean they can't get an STD -- their spouses may not be virgins when married and/or they may cheat at some time. Also any sex can lead to discomfort "down below" and in fact, childbirth is known for creating quite a bit of discomfort "down below" at least for the females. So, if the code is to protect them from ever getting discomfort down below at some point, perhaps you should make sure your children never have sex during their lives.

I guess I am thinking more adolescent to early adult with a formed mind and worldview (or at a minimum, an understanding of our innate primal breeding instinct and it's propensity to wreak havoc on the weak er horny er human).

.......or for those who look to the Federal Government for guidance in all things.......while they are still listed as dependents on my W2 Form......

Although, if we carry this on as you suggest, this could lead to some strange discussions at family reunions etc ......

Q: Son, does it hurt?

A: Only when she laughs at me.

 

[KatheeME]

I am not surprised. Parents need to take their heads out the sand. Personal beliefs are fine, but be practical, geez.
Kathee

 

[KatheeME]

Why? I learned about the True Love Waits program when I was in middle school. My two best friends were part of it. I had to beg and plead with my father for the purity ring, which I found rather amusing. Of the three of us, none of us have broken our pledge (at least that I know of). One girl's older sister melted down her ring to make her husband's wedding ring.

Perhaps the difference for us is that none of our families pressured us into it and the decision was made base purely on our beliefs. None of us are naive as to the various options out there (birth control, condoms, female condoms, etc.).

For me, there was no public ceremony. I simply chose the ring with my father. It is not an official ring, just a gold band with an amethyst heart. I doubt many people notice it or even know what it is. My father didn't make a big deal over it. In fact, the reason he didn't want to do it initially is that he said he didn't want me to make a commitment I would later regret. I have had no regrets. I am currently in a relationship with a wonderful man and we have been dating for a year. He has similar views.

The ring is for me and nobody else. It is simply a symbol of the commitment I have made to myself and to God. It is not meant to encourage others to do the same or be judgmental against others. It is simply something that is special to me. I realize the choice is a very personal one, and I frankly don't give a hoot what you choose to do or not do. You will not find my father on one of those shows talking about it. Perhaps that is the difference. Those shows only show the very fringe of the group, the ones who are the most likely to make it a huge deal. You don't hear about the ones for whom it is what it was intended to be: a quiet pledge between the teen and God.

I do not find it surprising that those who took the pledge as a group and were pressured into it are more likely to break the pledge. It also does not surprise me that these kids do not know about safe sex as they are much more likely to live in families that will not talk about such things and go to private schools where the topic is forbidden. But if the desire comes from the teen themselves and they have done their homework and have a good solid rational for their belief, then it can be a good thing. No reason to be creeped out.

But why, if this YOUR belief, is your father involved? That is the creepy part?
Kathee

 

[chobie]

But why, if this YOUR belief, is your father involved? That is the creepy part?
Kathee

Exactly, why did she and the other poster have to have their dads buy the rings? If it is just about them, they should have saved up their money and bought their own rings.

 

[KatheeME]

Why? I learned about the True Love Waits program when I was in middle school.

OMG where in the world do you go to school where this was/is taught? Please tell me it wasn't a public school funded by tax dollars, where we adhere to the Constitution, the part about separation of church and state? When my dds were in public school they were taught facts, not moral judgements. Facts on reproduction and health.

Kathee

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I explained why my father was involved. I explained about the ring. I will say it again, it is a reminder TO ME. Many women wear rings on their ring finger. It can be an engagement ring, wedding band, promise ring, or any other ring that she wants to put there. While they make actual bands that say True Love Waits, most people don't wear them. Most people wear a clean gold band that looks like a wedding ring (and most people presume it is) or a gold band with something on it. Like I said, most people just assume it is a promise ring. I don't go around looking at people's hands to see if they have a ring on that particular finger. If I notice a ring, purity ring is not the first thought that comes into my mind, so it really is not advertising to the world as you seem to believe.

Somebody asked why I would not expect the same values of my husband. I want my husband to have the same values. My boyfriend and I will most likely get married, and he does have the same values I do. But if by chance I were to fall in love with somebody who did not make the same commitment, I am not going to judge them on their past. As long as they are willing to wait for marriage with me, and remain faithful, it is something I am willing to overlook. We all have mistakes in our past. If we waited for somebody to be perfect, we would never get married.

Kathie: You made some valid points. I would counter that your friends who rushed into marriage for the intimacy were obviously not ready for it and that was not the right decision for them. Relationships need to be based on so much more than physical love. If that is your reason for getting married, of course it will fail.

As for the "test drive" analogy, I just don't understand the logic. People are not cars. I am so much more than my body, as is my boyfriend. I love him because he is intelligent, and funny, and compassionate. I am attracted to him physically, but that is not the only reason we are dating. I would hope that it is the same way for him. I don't feel the need to take him for a test drive. If it's not great at first, it's something we can work through. It's not going to make me stop loving him.

 

[Mr Man]

Exactly, why did she and the other poster have to have their dads buy the rings? If it is just about them, they should have saved up their money and bought their own rings.

Let me get this straight......now, not only is abstinence a problem......but parents financing abstinence is a no-no too?

Fiscal conservatism indeed!


Let us apply this concept in a fair even-handed manner to a few scenarios.

I, as an unemancipated minor (or major for that matter), would like to have casual sex with multiple partners but feel it is unfair for my parents to finance my "dalliances". Given the necessity to finance my chosen recreation, I have decided to charge for these services.

Or

Hi Parents, I need to buy some expensive, extremely provocative clothing so I can go to an all night Rave (do kids still do that sort of thing?) & engage in risky sexual behavior that may or may not have future consequences to my physical and mental health.


I dunno......this Purity stuff is looking more and more sensible.

 

[Goofyluver]

I agree. It's the archaic notion that a girl's worth depends on the intactness of her hymen.

Well, lordy be...I just found my next t-shirt.

I jest, I jest. Maybe.

Here's my view on the subject...

Sexuality is a personal thing. When you choose to have sex, whom you have sex with, your sexual orientation...all pretty personal things. If you view virginity/abstinence until marriage as an important virtue...good. That's for you. What an awesome thing, to stand up for what you believe is good and righteous.

The skeezy part comes in when people make pledges to someone rather than themselves to stay abstinent until marriage. Why? Virginity is yours alone. It doesn't belong to your daddy, your momma, your girlfriend, or your boyfriend. It belongs to you. The purity balls make me want to gack. This is not a gift to anyone but yourself. JMO.

I'm more concerned that my child understands how to be safe and protect himself when he makes the choice to become intimate with his partner. If you don't educate your child about all aspects of sex and sexual relationships, then you are failing at your job as a parent. We have an abstinance only program here in our schools...where we also have one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in our state. Yays for us. Seems like it's working.

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

Somebody asked why I would not expect the same values of my husband. I want my husband to have the same values. My boyfriend and I will most likely get married, and he does have the same values I do. But if by chance I were to fall in love with somebody who did not make the same commitment, I am not going to judge them on their past. As long as they are willing to wait for marriage with me, and remain faithful, it is something I am willing to overlook. We all have mistakes in our past. If we waited for somebody to be perfect, we would never get married.

What if he didn't think of his past experiences as mistakes? I don't regret any of the choices I made regarding that aspect of my life nor should anyone feel that they should.

As for your choice to stay a virgin: that's your choice. And you've made it clear that it was yours to make. Good for you for staying true to what you believe in. And as for your dad buying you the ring, it sounds as though he was more forking the money over to get you something you wanted for yourself. I don't think there's anything creepy about that. As long as he was not an influence as to why you were buying it, which you've said he was not.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

He may not view it as a mistake, that is fine. Maybe that wasn't the right phrase to use. I'm sure there are things I have done in my past that my future husband wouldn't necessarily agree with. What's important is coming to a mutual understanding about such issues.

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

He may not view it as a mistake, that is fine. Maybe that wasn't the right phrase to use. I'm sure there are things I have done in my past that my future husband wouldn't necessarily agree with. What's important is coming to a mutual understanding about such issues.

Stated much better!

 

[rentayenta]

 

[Goofyluver]

You're shameless Jenny.

 

[Robindianne]

I don't think the word, itself, really is the problem. I think that what is distressing to some is the manner in which the concept is related to people (typically the father in the case of a young girl [and the fact that it is the father, alone, instead of both parents, or just the mother, even, as a fellow "woman"], really is a source of concern) other than the correct, defensible agents (i.e., the youngster him/herself).

ITA! The whole thing is icky, incestuous-ish, like a dad "marrying" his daughter, like he is her keeper (rather than both parents being, well, her guides). It gives me the same heebie jeebies that the fundamentalist mormon compounds do. Icky icky icky.

 

[Goofyluver]

Speak for yourself sinnnnner!

It's not a good day if I haven't been told I'm going to hades.

Sinnin' is fun! You only live once. I say sin it up, girlfriend.

 

[Robindianne]

EDA: I was horrified when my 6th grade daughter came home from school with a pledge to stay a virgin until she was married. Her body belongs to her, not the school.

OMG I'd be LIVID! If this was a public school (and maybe even if private unless I signed something that said in the fine print that they could do any stupid thing to my child that they wanted to), I'd be making sure heads rolled over this.