Absolute truth? Yes or no...

[eclectics]

If it didn't matter what my answer was, why did you even ask the question?

I didn't say everyone would agree, just that I believe my interpretation is correct. You don't think such "absolute" and "rigid opposition" to other's points of view sets a good example of my own deep faith? Why not? It's because I HAVE such deep faith and believe whole-heartedly in what I do that I believe others are way off, thus my "rigid opposition" to them. It actually SHOWS my deep faith.

As to your disillusionment, everything will become clear in the end. See Revelation.

I asked because I was interested in your response. Lot's of questions are inconsequential. Don't think you quite caught my point about others points of views. I'm sure even Jesus enjoyed a spirited debate from time to time with his disciples. I'm not saying anyone should change their beliefs on what others say. I'm saying it's healthy to observe and digest other peoples point of view and perhaps even use it to strengthen their own faith, instead of dismissing them en masse as "unbelievers". As to your last statement, you do not have a monopoly on faith. Lots of folk have as much faith as you do. They choose to display it in different ways. Sitting in a church pew once a week does not make you any holier than someone who does not.

 

[hokiefan33]

it was a question not a declarative statement! I thought it was just the Catholics that didn't allow women priests.

There are other groups who do not allow women to be priests/ministers/clergy, etc... This is also Biblical, though I'm sure there will now be some who will argue that is not the case.

 

[hokiefan33]

I believe that For Jews there are certain absolutes..Those absolutes don't apply to others. Non-Jews are not and were never required to keep to Halacha.. This is why you don't see Jews out there trying to force the country to ban Red Lobster ..I just don't understand why some people feel they have the right to force there religions*absolutes* on the rest of the country
That said I do think there are some general absolutes that go beyond religion or personal belief..They are neccessary for sciety to work..This like Not murdering(different from killing) or stealing

But Jenny, where do these "general" absolutes come from, if not from religion or personal belief? Why are they absolute for everyone? Why can't some kill, b/c they don't consider killing bad b/c they have no absolutes? There has to be SOME basis for these absolutes. It is the law written upon man's heart, such as in Romans.

 

[hokiefan33]

I'm much more of a relativist that way

Bang. That sums it all up.

 

[BelleMcNally]

But Jenny, where do these "general" absolutes come from, if not from religion or personal belief? Why are they absolute for everyone? Why can't some kill, b/c they don't consider killing bad b/c they have no absolutes? There has to be SOME basis for these absolutes. It is the law written upon man's heart, such as in Romans.

Or from hundreds of years of civilization building during which men have realized that condoning murder leads to social disaster.

 

[JennyMominRI]

But Jenny, where do these "general" absolutes come from, if not from religion or personal belief? Why are they absolute for everyone? Why can't some kill, b/c they don't consider killing bad b/c they have no absolutes? There has to be SOME basis for these absolutes. It is the law written upon man's heart, such as in Romans.

Because I think it''s human nature to know that killing others is wrong.I don't think people need a book to tell them that.

 

[hokiefan33]

I asked because I was interested in your response. Lot's of questions are inconsequential. Don't think you quite caught my point about others points of views. I'm sure even Jesus enjoyed a spirited debate from time to time with his disciples. I'm not saying anyone should change their beliefs on what others say. I'm saying it's healthy to observe and digest other peoples point of view and perhaps even use it to strengthen their own faith, instead of dismissing them en masse as "unbelievers". As to your last statement, you do not have a monopoly on faith. Lots of folk have as much faith as you do. They choose to display it in different ways. Sitting in a church pew once a week does not make you any holier than someone who does not.

I do observe and digest other points of view, but I don't necessarily agree with them. However, observing and digesting them doesn't mean that you CAN'T still dismiss them as "unbelievers", if their views clearly show that they are!

I don't have a monopoly on faith, never said I did. Many do have as much faith as I; many have faith, it just matters where and in what it's placed. Misplaced faith may as well be no faith at all. And I agree about sitting in church not making you better than anyone else. I totally agree. You have to do so much outside of church, and live your faith.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Or from hundreds of years of civilization building during which men have realized that condoning murder leads to social disaster.

What she said,lol

 

[BelleMcNally]

Bang. That sums it all up.

Sums what up exactly? You started a thread that asked if people believed in Absolute Truth and I said I didn't. I've stated this from the beginning.

Am I supposed to feel indicted?

 

[hokiefan33]

Because I think it''s human nature to know that killing others is wrong.I don't think people need a book to tell them that.

But our human nature is sinful, the Bible tells us that. So why isn't it natural to kill, which is sin? B/c we instinctively "know" better, b/c the Holy Spirit speaks to all of us, only some of us choose to listen.

 

[scubamouse]

Because I think it''s human nature to know that killing others is wrong.I don't think people need a book to tell them that.

nodding. And thank you for the Torah lesson

 

[JennyMominRI]

But our human nature is sinful, the Bible tells us that. So why isn't it natural to kill, which is sin? B/c we instinctively "know" better, b/c the Holy Spirit speaks to all of us, only some of us choose to listen.

That's Christian belief but the Jewish bible teaches differently..We understand the *sinful* nature very differently,,The belief that *we are all sinners* is not Jewish and there is no concept of original sin

 

[hokiefan33]

And thus concludes this round of "Debate until your blue in the face, knowing you'll never convince each other."

Thanks for playing.

 

[JennyMominRI]

And thus concludes this round of "Debate until your blue in the face, knowing you'll never convince each other."

Thanks for playing.

I think it's a good debate. People are learning different things here

 

[eclectics]

I do observe and digest other points of view, but I don't necessarily agree with them. However, observing and digesting them doesn't mean that you CAN'T still dismiss them as "unbelievers", if their views clearly show that they are!



Again, unbelievers only according to your definition of the word.


I don't have a monopoly on faith, never said I did. Many do have as much faith as I; many have faith, it just matters where and in what it's placed. Misplaced faith may as well be no faith at all. And I agree about sitting in church not making you better than anyone else. I totally agree. You have to do so much outside of church, and live your faith.
Today 01:51 PM



Again, just your definition of faith. Your reference to Revelations when addressing my disillusionment suggested my opposition to organized religion will somehow affect me on the so called judgement day. I'm glad to see you agree that church membership is not the only proof of faith God is looking for.

 

[eclectics]

And thus concludes this round of "Debate until your blue in the face, knowing you'll never convince each other."

Thanks for playing.

I guess I'll ask the same sort of question you asked me. Why bother to start the thread if the outcome is pointless and others viewpoints are unimportant to you?

 

[cardaway]

And thus concludes this round of "Debate until your blue in the face, knowing you'll never convince each other."

Thanks for playing.

And you were the OP... hmmm...

 

[hokiefan33]

I guess I'll ask the same sort of question you asked me. Why bother to start the thread if the outcome is pointless and others viewpoints are unimportant to you?

Same as you, I guess, to see what others would say. It's also very helpful for doing research and gathering statistics.

 

[FencerMcNally]

Same as you, I guess, to see what others would say. It's also very helpful for doing research and gathering statistics.

Unless you're doing research to write a paper only on the population of the disboards, I think your statistical sample is far too low to draw any good conclusions.

 

[cardaway]

Or from hundreds of years of civilization building during which men have realized that condoning murder leads to social disaster.

Most, if not all, the major religions agree on a high level on the murder aspect. Since each much then define murder, there is still isn't an absolute truth in regards to murder.

One may say killing thieves is not murder, others say killing thieves is murder.