? about employers and what they can and can not do and say?

[cheermom1]

We just got this little business in our small town and my SIL and my DD work there. My SIL, this is her 3rd day and on her first day the owner told her that he hired her for her looks and she needs to wear make up and put on more reviling clothes PLUS he told her that if she did that for her husband she would have a better marriage. Now my SIL is a very pretty woman but she is a country girl all the way. She wears tank tops, jeans and boots with her hair in a pony tail daily and no make up, (she doesn't really need it). Then today she was telling me that he told her to do something without showing her how to do it and walked off. She said that he saw her doing the "wrong" way and yelled at her and belittled her in front of everyone. So she asked him to show her how to do it his way and she would. then he said why do i have to show everyone everything??

Ok today is my dd first day ans she is still there I don;t know how it went yet but I am worried as I want her first job experience to be a good one.

So my question is IF he fires one or both of them is there anything they can do?

 

[themilesfamily]

Yikes. At the very least it sounds like this owner has VERY poor boundaries. And he sounds like kind of a jerk.

I'm not sure I'd wait for him to fire me.

 

[karibritt01]

Sexual harassment without a doubt, but I don't know how they would go about proving it. Without some sort of proof or documentation, they would need other employees to witness the events, and be willing to go on record for them.

IMHO, I would have your DD start looking for a new job ASAP, and leave there as soon as she has one. As for your SIL, she is an adult and will have to decide for herself just how much she is willing to take to work there.

 

[cheermom1]

Yikes. At the very least it sounds like this owner has VERY poor boundaries. And he sounds like kind of a jerk.

I'm not sure I'd wait for him to fire me.

I would have told him in no uncertain terms what he could do with the comment about my marriage if I was my SIL.

But she is trying really hard and like I said this is my dd first job and her first day plus it is her b-day. I did not know about this till my dd was hired. I told my dd that if he did anything she didn't like she could come home.

However at the same time I want this guy to understand what he is doing is wrong.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'd be on the look out for sexual harrassment--which it seems that if he wasn't guilty of already, he's walking a fine line in the way he talked to the other worker. He sounds like a real pig.

As far as the other stuff--some bosses are just jerks.

She just needs to have a thick skin and just be aware that sexual harrassment is NOT okay.

 

[themilesfamily]

However at the same time I want this guy to understand what he is doing is wrong.

You're right. You don't want to just let him get away with it so he can do it to the next person he hires.

 

[cheermom1]

You're right. You don't want to just let him get away with it so he can do it to the next person he hires.

Yep which is why i posted to get ideas or something?

 

[themilesfamily]

1) Document his behaviors.
2) Document any incident where you confront him over said behavior. (Letters, e-mail, personal conversations, etc.)
3) If someone is fired, you can hire an attorney. I found this:

"Sexual harassment victims can recover compensatory damages beyond back pay, future pecuniary losses, emotional pain, suffering, inconvenience, mental anguish, loss of enjoyment of life, and punitive damages; and may do so in a jury trial."

4) If any of his behaviors become criminal, of course you can contact the police.

ETA:

http://www.ehow.com/how_2132923_document-sexual-harassment-behavior-boss.html

"Perhaps you have a boss that may be sexually harassing you, but you're not sure. Here are some behaviors that the law may deem to be sexual harassment: slurs or abuse, sexual innuendoes and other suggestive, offensive, or derogatory comments, humor and jokes about sex (or gender-specific traits), sexist remarks about your body, clothing, or sexual activity, sexual propositions or subtle pressure for sexual activities, insults of a sexual nature, requests or demands for sexual favors, catcalls, leering, ogling, whistling, suggestive or insulting sounds or gestures, use of inappropriate body images to advertise events, visual displays of degrading sexual images, unnecessary and unwanted physical contact (e.g., touching, brushing, pinching), attempts to impede or block movement, attempted or actual fondling or kissing, physical assault or coerced sexual intercourse."

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I would perhaps review the labor laws for your state to see if you can spot any specifics pertaining to what you have been told has occurred.

Make sure your dd is aware of the labor laws.

This is a good thing, b/c sometimes--we aren't even aware if something illegal is taking place even if it is.

It came in handy when I was pregnant and mistreated. While stuff resolved itself over my leave--I had already called the dept of labor and got all the info I needed to report my company for what they did. In the end, since what was planned to occur didn't--there was nothing to file a claim about.

This is something that one needs to know--especially in a right to work state.

While it is difficult to prove a wrongful termination in a right to work state, one should still be aware of how a boss treats them in the event they are fired for non-compliance with something that is illegal.

I..e your SIL and the makeup. Unless this is hooters where they have a distinct dress code to convey a certain image, I would guess that the boss is simply being a pig since she already reported to work dressed more appropriately.

Unfortunately--a boss being a jerk is not illegal....it that is why it is important to know what is legal and what is not in the event that they are doing both at the same time.

 

[WDWBarb]

I once worked for a guy for a VERY brief period of time who told me on my second day that I should wear more makeup, lower cut shirts and lose 10 lbs.

So I worked for him for... less than 2 days. What a jerk.

 

[design_mom]

We had to take a sexual harassment course at work (everyone had to take it). One thing that I thought was interesting/weird was that they said that if someone is uncomfortable, they have to speak up or it's not legally considered harassment. For instance, six guys telling sexually explicit/demeaning jokes in front of the one woman in the office is not sexual harassment if she doesn't have a problem with it. However, if she says "I'm uncomfortable with this" and they don't stop, *then* it become sexual harassment. (I thought that was weird because it means the "victim" has to stand up to someone. I think in our case, we could complain to HR, not directly to the person. However, it sounds like in a small business situation, you'd have to complain to the boss who is the one who is doing it.)

Document the behaviors and document when your SIL/DD speak up.

I think sexual harassment claims are very difficult to win though... so you might be better off just having SIL/DD get new jobs.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

We had to take a sexual harassment course at work (everyone had to take it). One thing that I thought was interesting/weird was that they said that if someone is uncomfortable, they have to speak up or it's not legally considered harassment. For instance, six guys telling sexually explicit/demeaning jokes in front of the one woman in the office is not sexual harassment if she doesn't have a problem with it. However, if she says "I'm uncomfortable with this" and they don't stop, *then* it become sexual harassment. (I thought that was weird because it means the "victim" has to stand up to someone. I think in our case, we could complain to HR, not directly to the person. However, it sounds like in a small business situation, you'd have to complain to the boss who is the one who is doing it.)

Document the behaviors and document when your SIL/DD speak up.

I think sexual harassment claims are very difficult to win though... so you might be better off just having SIL/DD get new jobs.

This is one of the flaws with the current way laws are written. It should be a matter of courtesy that obscenities, off color jokes, sexual innuedos, sexual comments, ect are not allowed in the workplace. Instead, someone has to go against a crowd of "the boys" to start the complaint process.

From personal experience, I can tell you, repercussions are often the reality. You complain about something offensive and ask that it be stopped, and the next thing you know there are all sorts of trumped up complaints coming down around your head.

It's still a double standard. "They" get to say and do as they please and "those who don't like it" can lump it. This applies to both genders. Women are no better in certain situations and often can be seen as sexually harrassing men, too.

The comments on personal appearance and clothing are inappropriate, and she'll need to say that she doesn't want to hear those ever again.

Being asked to do something without being taught seems to be standard practice!

 

[mamacatnv]

Requesting a certain dress code and the use of makeup is not harrassment. Recently there was a law suit here in NV when one of the larger casinos told their female dealers/bartenders they had to wear foundation, blush and lipstick - the dealers sued and lost. The employer has the right to request a "code". As another example, an employer can hire someone based on their size by providing a uniform that they must be able to fit, ie the skimpy coctail waitress outfits. The employer can't say you must be x measurements but they can say, you must be able to zip this up etc.

That said, this jerks mode and method are way out of line.

Sexual harrassment is only true harrassement if reported and addressed.

Right to work state has to do with the choice of joining unions.
At will state is the ability to hire, fire and quit at will, with no cause.
People often confuse the two.
Neither law allows an employer to violate state or federal law and federal law trumps state law.

 

[Arielle22]

A SH victim needs to tell the harrasser to stop because otherwise the harrasser thinks the victim is ok with it.

SH is not just male to female so it may not be an issue of confronting "the boys".

Also not all SH cases are clear cut and what one person consider SH another might consider joking around or welcomed behavior.

OP, I would not want my 16 yr old dd in that kind of atmosphere and would just have her quit. That is not the kind of place you want an unexperienced teen working in.

 

[FireDancer]

I am not sure if that meets the legal definition of harassment or discrimination. If all female employees have to wear makeup that could be considered part of a dress code, just like some workplace's no facial hair policy. The marriage comment was more odd then anything else. Does he know your SIL enough to even know the state of her marriage? This might be a symptom of the "small town" you spoke about. If everyone knows everyone casually outside of work then the barriers at the office end up a bit different.

Regardless, what your SIL and daughter can deal with is probably different if one is an adult and the other a kid so maybe that place isn't for her.

As for not being told how to do the job, that also depends. I know that the day my boss has to tell me the way to do my job I will be looking for a new one. I know what they want and it is up to me to figure out how to get it done. Of course I am also then judged on the results, not the method (of course if there is a more efficient way I should aim for that).

 

[cheermom1]

I talked to dd last night when she got home and she said he never said a word to her. so for now we will see how things go. I told her that if he did or said anything she didn't like she needs to tell him and if it didn't stoop to just come home. thanks everyone.

 

[disney1990]

I agree that it could be part of the "dress code". Just like Disney requires undergarments, deodorant, and if you are wearing make up it must be natural looking.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

I always wondered how companies get away with this kind of stuff. At least when it comes to makeup, weight, etc. In Atlantic City most of the Casinos have rules about the weight requirements for the girls who "work" the floor. I always figured it was discrimination, but apparently it's not?

 

[cheermom1]

For the ones that say it is dress code, I beg to differ as this place is a plant nursery, and the guys are pretty dirty doing the something the girls do. However he wants the girls to look picture perfect.

But like I said my dd said he hasn't said anything to her. Plus we went up there yesterday and I met him and his wife and all I could think was "mail order bride". She is Russian and pretty and a lot younger, and he is old, nasty, missing teeth, smelly and just plain ugly.
I know I shouldn't judge but how many wouldn't think that.