Abby Sunderland Missing

[mumom95]

I asked this same thing a couple of pages back and no one replied. I hope you get a response...I'd really like an answer.

Sorry, have to admit I'm guilty of not reading every reply on the thread

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

I have a question and have no idea if anyone here knows the answer or not, but I'll ask anyway:

If a parent in the US were to just up and leave their 16 year old home alone for a couple of months (the parent just leaves and doesn't come back for a couple of months), would CPS step in? Would it make a difference if the parents filled the fridge and gave the child enough money to pay for things while they were gone?

I used to think a parent couldn't do this, but if it appears to be ok to send your 16 year old out alone on the open see for an extended period of time, I would guess there wouldn't be anything illegal about leaving them at home alone for an extended period of time.

Anyone know?

From an internet search, I have determined that the state of California requires parental supervision of children, and children is defined in CA as anyone under the age of 18. So, according to CA state law, they could be prosecuted for neglect.

Legal link...

 

[Aisling]

Wasn't there a girl who was actually banned from doing it? I think she was Dutch and the government actually put her under state supervision (or something like that).

And then she ran away and ended up on St. Maarten (or perhaps Aruba - it was a Dutch territory).

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...33-13-year-old-laura-dekker-around-world.html


This is a discussion about her from a sailing website.

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

I have a question and have no idea if anyone here knows the answer or not, but I'll ask anyway:

If a parent in the US were to just up and leave their 16 year old home alone for a couple of months (the parent just leaves and doesn't come back for a couple of months), would CPS step in? Would it make a difference if the parents filled the fridge and gave the child enough money to pay for things while they were gone?

I used to think a parent couldn't do this, but if it appears to be ok to send your 16 year old out alone on the open see for an extended period of time, I would guess there wouldn't be anything illegal about leaving them at home alone for an extended period of time.

Anyone know?

Stay tuned.

Maybe a lawyer could come and explain this, as I couldn't find any information about anything prior to the voyage. Once she is international waters, do our American laws and CPS become null and void? Was there some sort of waiver that was filed prior to the voyage?

Present.

I asked this same thing a couple of pages back and no one replied. I hope you get a response...I'd really like an answer.

Sorry, just started reading and jumped to the end of the thread.

As with anything law-related, it depends.

Kids as young as 16 who are already wards can be eligible for independent living programs. These programs place the kids in apartments without direct adult supervision. They are given stipends for their living expenses and the social workers check on them periodically, but they're on their own.

If your hypothetical involves a 16-year-old who is reasonably self-sufficient and able to live independently, CPS probably won't step in. CPS/DCFS/DFS/DYFS will want to see that the child's basic needs are met: food, shelter, clothing, phone. As long as there is no open danger to the kid, there won't be an intervention.

Last year, Bravo ran a reality show about kids growing up in Manhattan. One of the kids was living in Manhattan on her own with her teenage brother. I think the kids were 15 and 17. The parents moved out to the Hamptons and would see the kids on the weekends. Sometimes.

I know many people think that protective services is ready to swoop down on them at any moment, but that's not the case. Parents have much more freedom from state intervention than they might think. Of course, it helps if you're not a minority or have money.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

From an internet search, I have determined that the state of California requires parental supervision of children, and children is defined in CA as anyone under the age of 18. So, according to CA state law, they could be prosecuted for neglect.

Legal link...

My only criticism of California, though, would be, why wait until now to file against the family? Why not threaten them before the trip, forcing them to cancel or go under the CPS microscope? She's been out there for awhile now, filing now would make their system look inept.

If they really had a problem with this, and it was truly neglect in their eyes, than they should have been charged within the first week she left. The fact that they did not do that, leads me to believe they won't be doing anything now, either. But then again California is a mystery wrapped in an enigma, so who knows?

 

[Aisling]

A question for our DIS lawyer:

I read that "depraved indifference" would be the charge the parents could receive, because the girl did have mechanical problems early in her trip and they let her go on during the roughest time of the year. Any thoughts?

 

[Planogirl]

What about the cases of child emancipation that we hear about? How does all of that fit into those statutes?

 

[Aisling]

If they really had a problem with this, and it was truly neglect in their eyes, than they should have been charged within the first week she left. The fact that they did not do that, leads me to believe they won't be doing anything now, either. But then again California is a mystery wrapped in an enigma, so who knows?

Ok, I've been reading the websites about this all morning and I see that Abby had huge merchandise endorsements on the line. She was also involved in a California Travel ad campaign. Maybe the powers that be in Cali were looking at it in a financial light?

 

[Dismagic1]

There will be no prosecution of the parents.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

Ok, I've been reading the websites about this all morning and I see that Abby had huge merchandise endorsements on the line. She was also involved in a California Travel ad campaign. Maybe the powers that be in Cali were looking at it in a financial light?

Given recent actions in California regarding their finances that is probably not far from the truth.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

My only criticism of California, though, would be, why wait until now to file against the family? Why not threaten them before the trip, forcing them to cancel or go under the CPS microscope? She's been out there for awhile now, filing now would make their system look inept.

If they really had a problem with this, and it was truly neglect in their eyes, than they should have been charged within the first week she left. The fact that they did not do that, leads me to believe they won't be doing anything now, either. But then again California is a mystery wrapped in an enigma, so who knows?

In the end, I think that this comes down to intent. Did the parents intend to neglect their daughter? Without that intent, I doubt that a state government in the US would step in - certainly not in one of our liberal states. I kinda hope that the state stays out of it. We really don't need them legislating our parenting any more than they already have.

 

[Aisling]

There will be no prosecution of the parents.

I don't think so either.

 

[Planogirl]

In the end, I think that this comes down to intent. Did the parents intend to neglect their daughter? Without that intent, I doubt that a state government in the US would step in - certainly not in one of our liberal states. I kinda hope that the state stays out of it. We really don't need them legislating our parenting any more than they already have.

ITA. While I don't agree with what the parents decided, I feel very uncomfortable going after them for something like this.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

There will be no prosecution of the parents.

I agree - unless she is somehow killed. Then some group would probably push for action. Let's just hope that this scenario isn't made possible.

 

[Aisling]

ITA. While I don't agree with what the parents decided, I feel very uncomfortable going after them for something like this.

I agree.

 

[mhsjax]

I don't know if it's a case of maturity as much as a case of experience. When I read that experiences adult sailors stay away from that part of the ocean during winter, it seems that was ignored by the her and her family. Also, her boat wasn't the "right" boat for her according to the builder.

I wonder if she ever sailed the southern hemisphere before during their winter months to learn the ropes??

I also read that the organization that recognizes these things will not recognize anything done by a person under 18 because of the danger. So I guess even they recognize that it isn't a good idea. And experienced sailors do to, but still I am sure that the ever so knowledgeable people here on Dis would disagree, even though experts seem to think it is foolish.

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

Ok, I think people may be confusing neglect charges. There are two types of child maltreatment charges: civil and criminal. Civil charges bring protective services intervention and possible removal of the child into state custody. Criminal charges bring direct criminal penalties against the parents: fines, jail time, etc. The two different charges are neither mutually exclusive, nor directly correlative. That is, most civil neglect charges have no other criminal charge levied simultaneously.

Will California do anything in this instance? Who knows. But if they act, it will probably be in the criminal realm, not the civil realm.

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

From the interviews I've seen, Abby seemed to be more on the mature side for her age. Maybe not as mature as a 25 year-old, but certainly as mature as an 18-year old, which, if she were actually 18, would have made a difference, apparently.

Biologically, yes it very well can make a difference. The frontal lobe of the brain is still several years from full maturation at the age of 16. Does this mean every 16 year old is irresponsible and every 30 year old is responsible? I think we both know the answer to that But the frontal lobe does control the decision making process, so if she were 18 vs 16, she may have been a little better prepared emotionally. But, I do agree with you, that you see teenagers that seem a lot more mature than twenty or thirty somethings.

And this may have nothing to do at all with anything that was within her power to control. We don't know what happened yet. I'm going to go ahead and guess that she wasn't solo in the plan of when to sail, what type of boat, what course to take, etc. Her parents were probably just as involved in the planning, if no moreso. And they have fully matured frontal lobes (theoretically ) But I do give them credit for sending her out at least somewhat prepared, or she probably would not be alive right now. So they (and she) did something right. She must have had a really good knowledge of sailing to get as far as she did.
I can see both sides of the argument and I could probably present each side's case decently. (I'm not ego-tripping, I just know how to Google for pros and cons of virtually anything. If it weren't for Google, I wouldn't know anything!).
But this morning I'm not in the debating mood with anyone (and I'm not debating with you at all, I just responded to your statement, but I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything), I'm just so relieved she has been found. Like another PP said, I got online this morning expecting to see the worst.

 

[luvmyfam444]

Australia says they'll foot the bill for their part of the rescue effort.

Solo sailor Abby Sunderland found and Australia is to foot the bill

Quote from article:

That's what I was wondering - who pays for the search & rescue in a case like this.

In my mind my 1st thought is well they person shouldn't be out in the middle of nowhere in the first place - so leave them. But then of course I think logically about it & think someone should hurry & get there.

CRAZY that its 40 hours to get to her! I can't imagine what her wait would feel like knowing it would take them that long to get to her. Ya know?

 

[Dismagic1]

For all those who seem to care so much about Abby and want the parents prosecute for this, suppose they are sent to jail. What happens to Abby then? Ooops!!! But I'm sure you're looking out for her best interests.