A strange Ebay situation

[summerrluvv]

I'm sorry you are having troube understanding it. You must show trackable proof of shipping for EACH transaction you are paid for.
***********
I understand that. But where does it say the trackable proof has to be two different DC numbers?

It's moot anyway, since that wasn't the OP's problem. She got her item, it was what she expected and she knew the shipping in advance.

"The seller provides reasonable proof of shipment from an independent shipper. The shipment must be trackable online. Proof of shipment should show that the address shipped to corresponds to the address on the Transaction Details page (see 4.d above). If a reversal occurs, you will need to provide PayPal with the name of your chosen shipping provider and the online tracking number. For your convenience, PayPal provides a list of popular and currently approved shippers. "

If you only have proof of shipping for ONE of the transactions and your buyer paid you under two separate transactions then you are not following the rules to be "protected." You receive payment for gadget A in one transaction. You receive payment for gadget B in another transaction. You ship A & B in the same box. Buyer gets box, claims they got A but not B and files a claim with paypal. You then provide paypal with one tracking number, which would cover either item A or B but not both since they were two separate transactions. You couldn't use the same tracking number to prove that two separate transactions were shipped. As much as you think you can, you can't. Wander over to paypalsucks.com or the ebay/paypal boards and you'll read about many people who have had experience with this.

 

[DMRick]

The first part (too lazy to quote it all) is from Paypal and it tells me what I need to know. The second is your opinion or perhaps your experience, not mine. We must be reading PP's rule differently. I've had one chargeback with PP, and it was reversed and I got my money back.
While I appreciate your second note to wander over to the ebay/paypal boards, I thought I stated, that I do read them. I have also read the website you provided in the past. But again, that wasn't a problem with the OP at all.

 

[summerrluvv]

The first part (too lazy to quote it all) is from Paypal and it tells me what I need to know. The second is your opinion or perhaps your experience, not mine. We must be reading PP's rule differently. I've had one chargeback with PP, and it was reversed and I got my money back.
While I appreciate your second note to wander over to the ebay/paypal boards, I thought I stated, that I do read them. I have also read the website you provided in the past. But again, that wasn't a problem with the OP at all.

<shrug> Just trying to help people out so they can protect themselves. What you do with the information is up to you. I've been selling on ebay for 6 years, and have been a paypal member since it started and pretty much know the in's and out's of it. You are fortunate to have not had any problems shipping two separate transactions in the same envelope. Unfortunately many others haven't been so lucky.

I didn't say that was the OP's problem. Just merely pointed out that the seller (oops, said buyer) is setting herself up for problems if she is shipping two separate transactions in one envie

 

[CajunDixie]

Of course you would have to have two separate delivery confirmations if the person paid in two SEPARATE paypal transactions

Not true at all. In the past I've bought pins from the same seller and after having purchased one pin then found more pins I wanted from the same seller. I emailed the seller and asked about combining shipping and he had no problem doing that. I paid him for 3 different pins in 3 PayPal payments and received them all in one envelope with one DC number. The seller was covered with PayPal because the package had a (as in one) DC number. PayPal has no idea if sellers offer buyers a break with combined shipping.

 

[sunkissed212]

I recently purchased some items from ebay and was charged $10 for shipping. I really wanted the items so I wasn't too worried about how much the shipping was until I received the package. It was in a reused box with no packaging materials and the postage label said $3.05. I paid $10! I contacted the seller and asked why the shipping was so much more than the "actual" cost. Mind you, the box was reused and there was no packing materials (peanuts, bubble wrap, etc). She said that she charges a "flat shipping rate" based on the weight of the item. She was nice enough to send me a refund for $5 which I thought was very nice. I was hoping she would but wasn't expecting it. I left positive feedback. Now, if she would have not responded or not offered the refund, I would have left negative feedback stating I was overcharged for shipping. I understand that a lot of sellers estimate and I don't have a problem with a little deviation from the "actual" shipping cost but $7 more than what it cost? I don't think so!

I would contact the seller and ask for a refund of some of the shipping cost since the items were so much cheaper to ship than what you were charged. See what happens? Then, decide what kind of feedback to leave.

 

[summerrluvv]

Not true at all. In the past I've bought pins from the same seller and after having purchased one pin then found more pins I wanted from the same seller. I emailed the seller and asked about combining shipping and he had no problem doing that. I paid him for 3 different pins in 3 PayPal payments and received them all in one envelope with one DC number. The seller was covered with PayPal because the package had a (as in one) DC number. PayPal has no idea if sellers offer buyers a break with combined shipping.

Posted to the ebay/paypal boards:


"Paypal experts only please.

If I sell two items to the same person and they pay me with two SEPARATE transactions on paypal, am I required to ship in two separate boxes of can I ship them together with one delivery confirmation number and be covered under the seller protection policy? "


paypalamanda@ebay.com (view author's auctions)
01/24/05 03:10 PM(#1 of 1)

Hi sls5216,

To be eligible for SPP you must have a separate tracking number for each transaction.

Best Regards,
Amanda

http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=paypalamanda@ebay.com

Hope that clears things up for those of you that don't believe what I am saying.

 

[DMRick]

I called Paypal today and was told that if there was someone trying to do a chargeback, I needed to give a trackable DC number. The person I talked to would not elaborate, just said that I need to give a trackable DC number..period. I again explained what I meant about shipping together, and she asked if I would have a trackable DC, I said yes, and she said that should answer the question. I would have one in this case. So perhaps this employee was giving his opinion. Seems we both tried to find out taday
I'll continue along as I have been.

 

[summerrluvv]

I called Paypal today and was told that if there was someone trying to do a chargeback, I needed to give a trackable DC number. The person I talked to would not elaborate, just said that I need to give a trackable DC number..period. I again explained what I meant about shipping together, and she asked if I would have a trackable DC, I said yes, and she said that should answer the question. I would have one in this case. So perhaps this employee was giving his opinion. Seems we both tried to find out taday
I'll continue along as I have been.

I don't think that a paypal employee is going to post false information on the ebay site, but I digress, do what you want

 

[floridagirrl2]

Lots of good points have been made, but I don't think anybody has made the point yet (sorry if I missed it!) that 95% positive feedback is a pretty crummy feedback rating. For 5% of somebody's customers to be ticked off enough to leave a negative is pretty excessive!!

 

[DMRick]

I don't think that a paypal employee is going to post false information on the ebay site,
*************
You wouldn't think so would you I saw her response to your question, and your response to her answer, but I had already called, so I didn't see any point in posting to her response. Especially since others have had no problems with chargebacks when items have been combined under separate payments (I've only had one chargeback in all my years on eBay, and that money was returned to me, so I can't speak from my experience). You mentioned to her that others are still doubting the policy even though you posted her answer..maybe because what she says hasn't been what has happened to others in a chargeback, or the response when I called was different from what she posted...and again as I've said in other posts, it's all in how you ask the question. If you have a business account, you might want to try calling, if it concerns you. Who knows what answer you'll get, but maybe it will break the tie

 

[DMRick]

For 5% of somebody's customers to be ticked off enough to leave a negative is pretty excessive!!
*******

Yep, that's pretty bad. I don't bid when someone has 95%. I don't think I even noticed that that was posted.

 

[summerrluvv]

I don't think that a paypal employee is going to post false information on the ebay site,
*************
You wouldn't think so would you I saw her response to your question, and your response to her answer, but I had already called, so I didn't see any point in posting to her response. Especially since others have had no problems with chargebacks when items have been combined under separate payments (I've only had one chargeback in all my years on eBay, and that money was returned to me, so I can't speak from my experience). You mentioned to her that others are still doubting the policy even though you posted her answer..maybe because what she says hasn't been what has happened to others in a chargeback, or the response when I called was different from what she posted...and again as I've said in other posts, it's all in how you ask the question. If you have a business account, you might want to try calling, if it concerns you. Who knows what answer you'll get, but maybe it will break the tie

It doesn't concern me a bit, I will continue to ship two separate transactions in two separate shipments. Of course, these days with ebay, the options come up to combine the payments, thus allowing one shipment.

I asked the question very clearly, no confusion there and she answered very clearly. I'm not sure how you phrased the question on your phone call, but from what you posted, it wasn't very clear.

Others haven't had problems because they haven't had dishonest buyers. Not all buyers are honest, and some will see that mistake on the sellers part and take advantage of it. If you don't care...well then you don't care. Hopefully other newbies on ebay will read the thread and understand how you are supposed to ship when it comes to separate transactions with paypal.

 

[disneysteve]

"The seller provides reasonable proof of shipment from an independent shipper. The shipment must be trackable online. Proof of shipment should show that the address shipped to corresponds to the address on the Transaction Details page (see 4.d above). If a reversal occurs, you will need to provide PayPal with the name of your chosen shipping provider and the online tracking number. For your convenience, PayPal provides a list of popular and currently approved shippers. "

Ok, I should probably stay out of this but the principle is really bugging me.

I can't think of any reason why Paypal should care if I offer my customers the convenience of combining shipping of 2 or more items to save on postage. In fact, I would think they would support doing that as it is great customer service. And the passage quoted above says nothing to make me think I need a different DC# for each transaction.

So let's have a hypothetical example. I sell Item A and Item B. The same person wins both and pays me in 2 seperate Paypal transactions. I put Item A and Item B in one box and ship it. I am issued Delivery Confirmation#12345. If the buyer files a chargeback for Item A, I provide Paypal with DC#12345. If the buyer files a chargeback for Item B, I provide the same number. Every requirement of the policy above is met in this example.

summerrluvv - Can you please give us a link (or post the section) to the Paypal policy that clearly states combining shipping would make a seller ineligible for the Seller Protection Policy? If you can do that, I think it would clear up the confusion.

 

[summerrluvv]

Ok, I should probably stay out of this but the principle is really bugging me.

I can't think of any reason why Paypal should care if I offer my customers the convenience of combining shipping of 2 or more items to save on postage. In fact, I would think they would support doing that as it is great customer service. And the passage quoted above says nothing to make me think I need a different DC# for each transaction.

So let's have a hypothetical example. I sell Item A and Item B. The same person wins both and pays me in 2 seperate Paypal transactions. I put Item A and Item B in one box and ship it. I am issued Delivery Confirmation#12345. If the buyer files a chargeback for Item A, I provide Paypal with DC#12345. If the buyer files a chargeback for Item B, I provide the same number. Every requirement of the policy above is met in this example.

summerrluvv - Can you please give us a link (or post the section) to the Paypal policy that clearly states combining shipping would make a seller ineligible for the Seller Protection Policy? If you can do that, I think it would clear up the confusion.

Paypal won't accept the same delivery confirmation number for two separate transactions. The first delivery confirmation number would be already in the system and when you go to enter the same number for the second transaction, it wouldn't work because you already provided that for a differerent transaction.

I posted above a response from an ebay employee regarding the policy which was posted on the ebay/paypal message board directly on ebay.

Just because you personally (or anyone else on the thread) haven't had any problems in shipping separately, I'm just pointing out the potential for a chargeback. This information is common knowledge on many other boards that talk about ebay/auctions in general, swap boards, etc.

I'm done replying on this thread. I'm not sure why anyone doubts the policy and honestly, I don't care anymore. Do what you want! Happy ebaying

ETA, no one says you can't "combine" shipping, you just need to have your buyers pay you on one invoice, and generally if they buy more than one item from you on ebay, ebay will spit them out an invoice with all the items and they can pay with one paypal transaction.

 

[disneysteve]

Paypal won't accept the same delivery confirmation number for two separate transactions. The first delivery confirmation number would be already in the system and when you go to enter the same number for the second transaction, it wouldn't work because you already provided that for a differerent transaction.

Aha!. THAT makes sense! So if the buyer filed a chargeback for both items, which he would if the package never arrived, the seller could be out of luck for one of the items. You could provide the DC# for Item A but could not provide the same DC# for Item B.

Sorry for sounding dense but I just didn't see the problem the way you were explaining it previously.

 

[DMRick]

I thought I was real clear in how I asked the question. It's not that I don't care, I'm not sure why you've said that a couple different times. I have wonderful feedback and lots and lots of it, and been both an eBayer and a Paypaler for years, as well as having numerous repeat clients. I think I'm consiencious and follow rules. I try hard to be honest, and I"m not trying to take advantage of a situation. Yes, often sales can be combined, but I have had people pay and then bid again and pay, and not want me to go through the bother of refunding and repaying togethr.

However, I did call and asked also and got a different response than you.

So you know for a fact that the DC number is put in the "system" and Paypal knows that that particular DC number is being used twice? So, you know that when they did the second chargeback process, the DC would show up as used? So they would sort everything by DC number or would someone go in and try to compare? I was not told that today, and I'm not convinced that that is accurate, or that based on their TOS, they could hold me to needing two DC numbers. I repeated my question today as I said (and I think I was very clear), and I was told again I just needed a trackable shipping, and if I combine, it would show that I had that, to the person and to the address. According to their policy, you just have to show trackable shipping.

 

[DMRick]

I called back Paypal again today. A much longer wait on hold, and although I swear I got a different person, I was given the same name as yesterday. I thought that was interesting.

I was much more specific this time. I was told (unlike yesterday) that I needed a trackable (on line) way to prove delivery..yesterday, I was told I had to prove shipping, today, I was told I had to prove delivery. So if a package is lost, and not scanned at the persons address (postoffice isn't good enough), apparently, we are still out of luck, and a chargeback can be made. This person told me that you must have a trackable number for each item that is paid for. However, when I pushed her to the wall (well, not really, but kept asking over and over), if they have a tracking advice for each DC, it was sidestepped each time, and as yesterdays person did, she just repeated that there must be a trackable was to confirm delivery (except yesterday's said shipping). I did ask if that is part of their tos, that you needed a number for each item. She says that while she was unable to find it to give me a place to look, that it is assumed that when they say they need a tackable number, that we would have a new number for each item. I did ask her if she could email me this info, she said she would, and several hours later, she didn't. I don't think she has it to show me. I like to read the rules for myself, in their tos. So..I'll continue the way I'm going, and if it ever gets to be a problem, I'll face it at that time. I'll be interested (since I know a few others have written) to see what others get in writing, and if it's found to be part of the tos. As an aside, she mentioned something new coming down the pike, but wouldn't elaborate, that will help with this. I don't like the thought, that they may soon have even more control over us.

 

[disneysteve]

Not to beat a dead horse, but...

I sent the following question by e-mail to Paypal:

If I have a buyer win 2 ebay
auctions and pay me in 2 PayPal transactions, can I put both items in one
package and ship them together with one Delivery Confirmation number and
still be covered by the Seller Protection Policy?

Here is the response I received:

Thank you for contacting PayPal.

Thank you for providing this information to us. Yes, 2 separate eBay
auctions with 2 separate PayPal transactions to the same buyer can be
combined for shipping and still be covered under the seller protection
policy.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.

Sincerely,
Brooke

That seems quite clear and specific to me.

 

[Dancind]

The really scary thing is that sometimes they say you must provide proof of shipping, and other times they say that you must provide proof of delivery. These are two very different things. Especially since, as a seller, we have no control over delivery.

I have to admit, I'm paranoid these days. I just had a buyer that won three doll item auctions from me for a total of $500. She was in the process of moving, had used her husband's ID, and wanted to pay with an unconfirmed Paypal account. All kinds of alarms went off. I finally went into her "real" ID and e-mailed previous sellers to make sure the names etc. matched. It all checked out, so I'm sending it out with Signature Confirmation, Delivery Confirmation, insurance, and I'm still not thrilled about it.

Back to the OP. If you search back through the seller's feedback, you will see that this has happened to other people. Hence the poor feedback rating (95% is a poor feedback rating). Don't leave feedback on this one, nothing says you have too. And if they have this sort of business practice, they very likely leave retaliatory feedback. If they eventually leave feedback, feel free to express yourself on theirs. Better block them after that. I've been burned in exactly the same way, several times. I now read through feedback, ask questions, etc. I usually don't bid unless shipping is stated and seems reasonable. Yes, lots of sellers make up low selling prices, such as starting auctions at $.99, with "handling" charges. I do consider that, and decide the total amount including ship I want to pay for an item when bidding. If it's still a good deal, I'll bid.

 

[robsmom]

The really scary thing is that sometimes they say you must provide proof of shipping, and other times they say that you must provide proof of delivery. These are two very different things. Especially since, as a seller, we have no control over delivery.


LOL, I am finding this confusing as well. Even if paypal says that you can ship with one delivery confirmation number, what if the person claims they got one but not the other. How do you prove both purchases were in the package. Along the same note, how is printing a delivery confirmation from paypal any proof that you ever actual mailed the package? I understand the PO methods and confirmation of receipt, etc. but not sure that I understand how the paypal deliver confirmations work.