A strange Ebay situation

[summerrluvv]

I think it's a bit shady on the seller's part to mislead someone into thinking they are buying from two different sellers then shipping in one envelope.

Just curious, did you pay with two separate paypal transactions or one? If you paid in two separate transactions, then the seller is required to ship in two different packages with delivery confirmation on each as per paypal's rules. That seller would be pretty stupid to ship in one envelope if you paid separately because you could've filed a chargeback for non-receipt.

 

[disneysteve]

How is it fee avoidance for the seller to ship in one package? Sellers don't pay fees on their shipping/handling cost to Ebay.

It could be considered fee avoidance because this seller seems to be making a fortune on shipping charges. In this case, the buyer paid $7 for shipping and actual postage was only $1.04.

Many ebay sellers avoid fees by keeping their prices artificially low but jacking up their shipping charges.

 

[DMRick]

It could be considered fee avoidance because this seller seems to be making a fortune on shipping charges. In this case, the buyer paid $7 for shipping and actual postage was only $1.04.

eBay won't consider that amount of difference in shipping to be fee avoidance. It's not nice, but since we have no idea if someone is paid to pack or ship, howmuch they pay for their shipping supplies, how far the Post Office is, etc, we have no way of knowing their costs. Plus it was listed in the auction. The time to report it for high shiping, would have been before she bid. eBay is less interested, if it's listed and a buyer still bids. I also don't know of any reason someone couldn't have two names on eBay...is that actually breaking any rules? eBay knows I have two. And do you have to ship each item apart if paid for apart, to qualify under Paypals rules? Although I generally refund my buyers if they want combined shipping, and have them pay together (to save myself fees), occasionally they don't want to bother, but I have sent their items in one package. Sometimes they have already paid the shipping for each, and I don't refund since I am now paying more for Paypal. Sometimes I send Priority if they have paid enough. I may have to rethink my own combined shipping, if someone can point me towards those Paypal rules.

 

[summerrluvv]

I may have to rethink my own combined shipping, if someone can point me towards those Paypal rules.

I'm surprised you aren't aware that paypal requires a tracking number on each package you ship for each payment you recieve. If someone sends two payments and you only ship one package, you don't have tracking for one of them and the buyer can file a complaint for non-receipt.


Seller Protection Policy

PayPal helps to protect our sellers against chargebacks due to fraud. PayPal's Seller Protection Policy gives you the opportunity to protect yourself from liability when you follow the guidelines below to reduce your risk of dealing with a fraudulent buyer.

Note: See the full policy for information on which countries qualify for Seller Protection.

When a transaction is Seller Protection Policy eligible, you must follow these guidelines to be covered against fraudulent chargebacks:
-Have a Verified Business or Premier account
-Ship to the address on the Transaction Details page
-Provide timely shipment
-Retain reasonable proof of shipping that can be tracked
-Ship tangible goods
-Only accept complete payments from single PayPal accounts
-Agree not to surcharge the buyer
-Respond in a timely manner to all PayPal inquiries

 

[disneysteve]

When a transaction is Seller Protection Policy eligible, you must follow these guidelines to be covered against fraudulent chargebacks:
-Retain reasonable proof of shipping that can be tracked

This doesn't mean you have to do this. It only means that if you don't, you won't be covered by the Seller Protection Policy. At least that's how I would interpret that.

I have never shipped with Delivery Confirmation or any other form of tracking. I see no reason to spend the extra money.

As for the shipping charges, DMRick, I agree in theory that the time to complain about them is before you bid. The problem, and I think you and I may have had this conversation before, is that you don't generally know the charges are unreasonable until the item arrives. In this case, for example, the buyer may have thought $7 seemed reasonable and therefore placed the bids. Only after the items arrived packed together with only $1.04 postage did the buyer discover how inflated the charges were. The only way to avoid this would be to e-mail every seller before you bid and ask for an exact breakdown of the shipping charges - how much is for postage and how much is for other costs. I don't think it is reasonable to have to do that each time I want to buy something. And I suspect a lot of sellers wouldn't want to be bothered with questions like that.

 

[DMRick]

I'm surprised you aren't aware that paypal requires a tracking number on each package you ship for each payment you recieve. If someone sends two payments and you only ship one package
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Yes, I know you need a tracking number if you wanted Paypal to back you (although as mentioned you don't HAVE to have one) against someone saying they didn't receive an item...but why wouldn't the tracking number be good on both items? In this case it may be moot, since the seller may not have cared if she had paypal protection. Maybe I am just on Disney overload, but I just don't see why Paypal wouldn't take the tracking number just because it's combined shipping. If the shipping had been lower, the OP would have been happy to have items shipped together...why is this different? And did I miss if they were paid for in one payment?

Steve, I don't remember having this conversation with you before, but it's possible (and maybe probable, since I firmly believe buyers need to pay attention to shipping..if I saw something I know is lightweight and the shipping would be $7, I would inquire..if I'm not sure, I would just take the total price in consideration). I agree the seller charged too much...however, I don't think eBay will agree with that. eBay doesn't usually consider it fee avoidance, unless the selling price is artificially low in addition to the shipping being much higher than could be expected. I also don't think a neg is in order, since the buyer agreed to the shipping price when she bid. Yes, she prob expected once she found out it was from the same seller, a break in shipping, and if not, that the items be sent apart. But those are all just expectations. Do I think this was just this side of "shady"? Yes, but I still think it's not breaking any ebay rules, and therefore shouldn't have a neg, unless the item wasn't shipped, wasn't as shown, etc. I bid according to the total..and if the item I want is $10 and the shipping is $5, and I think $15 is a good price, then I bid. I assume the OP did that too. Every time I read something like this, however, I am more careful the next time I bid..so I appreciate people like the OP posting this.

 

[disneysteve]

I agree the seller charged too much...however, I don't think eBay will agree with that.
I also don't think a neg is in order, since the buyer agreed to the shipping price when she bid.
Do I think this was just this side of "shady"? Yes, but I still think it's not breaking any ebay rules, and therefore shouldn't have a neg, unless the item wasn't shipped, wasn't as shown, etc.

I agree with you on all of these points.

 

[summerrluvv]

I'm surprised you aren't aware that paypal requires a tracking number on each package you ship for each payment you recieve. If someone sends two payments and you only ship one package
******

Yes, I know you need a tracking number if you wanted Paypal to back you (although as mentioned you don't HAVE to have one) against someone saying they didn't receive an item...but why wouldn't the tracking number be good on both items? In this case it may be moot, since the seller may not have cared if she had paypal protection. Maybe I am just on Disney overload, but I just don't see why Paypal wouldn't take the tracking number just because it's combined shipping. If the shipping had been lower, the OP would have been happy to have items shipped together...why is this different? And did I miss if they were paid for in one payment?

Because it's two separate payments. If it's one payment to paypal it doesn't matter.

And yes, you HAVE to have one if you want to protect yourself from a chargeback. If you have no proof of delivery (tracking number, delivery conf. etc.) and the buyer claims they never got it, paypal will refund them and take that money out of your account.

 

[summerrluvv]

This doesn't mean you have to do this. It only means that if you don't, you won't be covered by the Seller Protection Policy. At least that's how I would interpret that.

I have never shipped with Delivery Confirmation or any other form of tracking. I see no reason to spend the extra money.

Well yes, if you want to be covered you have to ship with a tracking number. I certainly wouldn't want to be out $50 if I sold an item and the person claimed non receipt (which happens a lot...read the ebay boards). Delivery conf. is free with priority mail and only .20 if you print it from paypal for all other forms of shipping.

 

[Letsbgoofy]

The end to this story is that when I went to my ebay account to leave feedback, there was a message that one of the sellers was no longer a registered ebay member. I guess I am not the only one who caught on to this scam.

The only comment I want to add to this whole discussion is that my problem was not with a $7 shipping charge (i knew what it would cost) but with a seller who was using two different names seemingly in order to not combine shipping charges. Each sellers name combined charges for items bought only under that name, but then the seller shipped the all items in one package.

Neither email I sent about this matter was answered. I still have to leave feedback for the seller who is still a registered user.

Thank you again for all your responses.

 

[FatCow]

You can report the seller(s) to ebay as ebay does have a policy regarding overcharging for shipping and handling. I can't imagine "handling" costing 6x the actual shipping costs.

Shipping and 'handling' can vary. Shipping is one thing, that's postage price, say US$2. Now I don't know the price of public transportation in the US, however if I have to calculate the handling fee based on the Canadian prices:

US$ 4 for return trip to and from the post office
US$ 2 + 15% taxes for the bubble envelope
US$ 10 based on 1 hours turnaround time for transportation + 15 minutes at the post office, based on minimum hourly wage

So, the US$2 shipping now becomes almost US$18 if you include handling.

Remember, not all sellers are doing this full time. People like me only sell one item in a blue moon so the handling price becomes that high (although I don't charge that much because I have the luxury of sending stuff from my office and all I have to do is re-imburse the shipping cost to my office)

 

[disneysteve]

Well yes, if you want to be covered you have to ship with a tracking number. I certainly wouldn't want to be out $50 if I sold an item and the person claimed non receipt (which happens a lot...read the ebay boards). Delivery conf. is free with priority mail.

Delivery Confirmation is not free with Priority Mail. It is $0.45.

Most of my items are shipped insured. If the buyer says he never received it, I file the insurance claim and get reimbursed by the Post Office. Fortunately, I've only had this happen once or maybe twice and I've been selling on ebay since 1997. It isn't necessary for me to be doubly insured by having the coverage through PayPal as well but I agree that you should make sure you are covered one way or another.

 

[summerrluvv]

Delivery Confirmation is not free with Priority Mail. It is $0.45.

Sure it is. You can print from paypal or you can go to http://www.usps.com/cgi-bin/api/shipping_label.htm and print a label from there. Both are free.

 

[disneysteve]

Shipping and 'handling' can vary.

US$ 4 for return trip to and from the post office
US$ 2 + 15% taxes for the bubble envelope
US$ 10 based on 1 hours turnaround time for transportation + 15 minutes at the post office, based on minimum hourly wage

So, the US$2 shipping now becomes almost US$18 if you include handling.

I don't mean to be rude or offend you but this example is ridiculous. Are you saying that you would actually charge $18 for shipping and handling? Aren't you selling your merchandise at a profit? If so, part of that profit should be going to cover the costs you incur in doing business. And if you aren't selling at a profit, then you should reconsider what you are doing because it doesn't make sense to keep selling at a loss.

When you go to the supermarket to buy groceries, you don't pay fees to park your car in the lot, use the shopping cart, put your produce in plastic bags, have your order packed in bags, etc. Those expenses are all figured into the cost of the merchandise. You can't expect pure profit on the item price.

I know that selling on ebay involves certain costs: ebay and paypal fees, shipping materials, stationary,etc. I takes all those costs into account when I price my merchandise.

JMO but I would rather buy from a seller who prices their items fairly and doesn't inflate the handling charges. If I was buying a $20 item, I'd rather buy it from the seller charging $20 plus $3 shipping than from the seller charging $15 and $8 shipping and handling. Total price is the same, but I feel the second seller is padding the shipping charge to keep the item price artificially low which is fee avoidance.

 

[disneysteve]

Sure it is. You can print from paypal or you can go to http://www.usps.com/cgi-bin/api/shipping_label.htm and print a label from there. Both are free.

Sorry. I was referring to shipping at the Post Office. If you do that, it is $0.45.

 

[DMRick]

Because it's two separate payments. If it's one payment to paypal it doesn't matter.

And yes, you HAVE to have one if you want to protect yourself from a chargeback. If you have no proof of delivery (tracking number, delivery conf. etc.) and the buyer claims they never got it, paypal will refund them and take that money out of your account.
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I do not believe you have to have two sep Delivery confirmations to prove shipping on Paypal. First of all, there is no way Paypal would know you put two orders in one. I get my DC's online through the postoffice for free, and I can put whatever I want in the package. If someone reports something didn't arrive, I just have to supply paypay with a trackable DC number, with the buyers name and addy.

That tracking number is just if you want to protect yourself in case someone does report it as not arriving. It would have to not arrive and not have DC or insurance on it in any case to get a chargeback. I ship to whatever address people want me to ship to, so I would seldom be covered anyway

As far as shipping, I prefer buying off someone who isn't padding, however, I usually take the entire price into consideration, and if the shipping isn't out of the ordinary, I go with the cheaper price. I would hope in the example, you would be taking 20-40 packages to the post office, and sharing those expenses. Whew..$18 for shipping a bubble envy, I would look elsewhere.

I'm surprised that eBay only NARU'd one seller, so I doubt it was because of this reason..or they both would have been bye bye. I have no idea, of course if the person is selling under two names just to avoid combing selling, since even if it was one name, they don't HAVE to combine. I assume that since you need a "fresh" email addy for each eBay name on Paypal, that they wrote you apart from the end of auction notice to pay both to the one name? eBay didn't give you just the one name to pay to, did they?

 

[summerrluvv]

Because it's two separate payments. If it's one payment to paypal it doesn't matter.

And yes, you HAVE to have one if you want to protect yourself from a chargeback. If you have no proof of delivery (tracking number, delivery conf. etc.) and the buyer claims they never got it, paypal will refund them and take that money out of your account.
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I do not believe you have to have two sep Delivery confirmations to prove shipping on Paypal. First of all, there is no way Paypal would know you put two orders in one. I get my DC's online through the postoffice for free, and I can put whatever I want in the package. If someone reports something didn't arrive, I just have to supply paypay with a trackable DC number, with the buyers name and addy.

Of course you would have to have two separate delivery confirmations if the person paid in two SEPARATE paypal transactions. If this seller wasn't misleading buyers and selling under two different names, paypal would've picked up the two winning auctions from the same seller and combined them under one payment, thus allowing the buyer to pay in one transaction, not two, and the seller to ship in one shipment rather than two and still be within paypal's guidelines.

I'm specifically talking about shipping within paypal's guidelines to cover yourself in the event of a chargeback. If the seller (like you) could give a hoot about paypal's guildelines to protect themselves, they can ship however they want.

I hope others are reading this thread and realizing that you should never allow someone to pay you under two separate payments and then ship both of their items in one envelope, because if you get a dishonest buyer that files a chargeback on one of the transactions that you don't have proof of delivery for, you are going to be the one that is punished for not following paypal's rules.

 

[DMRick]

Of course you would have to have two separate delivery confirmations if the person paid in two SEPARATE paypal transactions.
I hope others are reading this thread and realizing that you should never allow someone to pay you under two separate payments and then ship both of their items in one envelope, because if you get a dishonest buyer that files a chargeback on one of the transactions that you don't have proof of delivery for, you are going to be the one that is punished for not following paypal's rules.

First of all, I do not get my delivery confirmations through Paypal. I get them through the post office. Maybe if I printed my DC ady's through Paypal they would know. If someone says they did not get the item, all you have to show Paypal is the DC number. It is not "hooked" to a certain transaction, but to the buyers name. You must do your DC numbers through Paypal to have them connected. It does not matter how many transactions you have in the package, as long as you can show Paypal you shipped it (and to the Paypal addy) within the amount of days they say you must ship it and you have trackable proof, you will be ok in the case of a chargeback. Why do you keep saying you can't combine items paid for separately? I've scoured the PP rules, and I'm just not seeing that. I'd be happy to concede, if I could figure out why you think Paypal would know (or care) if that DC is just for one item or for 10. The Paypal number of the item is nowhere on my DC, and Paypal just says that you must be able to show trackable proof of shipping.

 

[summerrluvv]

First of all, I do not get my delivery confirmations through Paypal. I get them through the post office. Maybe if I printed my DC ady's through Paypal they would know. If someone says they did not get the item, all you have to show Paypal is the DC number. It is not "hooked" to a certain transaction, but to the buyers name. You must do your DC numbers through Paypal to have them connected. It does not matter how many transactions you have in the package, as long as you can show Paypal you shipped it (and to the Paypal addy) within the amount of days they say you must ship it and you have trackable proof, you will be ok in the case of a chargeback. Why do you keep saying you can't combine items paid for separately? I've scoured the PP rules, and I'm just not seeing that. I'd be happy to concede, if I could figure out why you think Paypal would know (or care) if that DC is just for one item or for 10. The Paypal number of the item is nowhere on my DC, and Paypal just says that you must be able to show trackable proof of shipping.

I'm sorry you are having troube understanding it. You must show trackable proof of shipping for EACH transaction you are paid for. If someone pays you in two separate transactions and you are only shipping to one, you obviously don't have delivery confirmation for both transactions. I can't really explain it any better, but maybe if you cruise over to the ebay/paypal boards, someone can explain it better!!

 

[DMRick]

I'm sorry you are having troube understanding it. You must show trackable proof of shipping for EACH transaction you are paid for.
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I understand that. But where does it say the trackable proof has to be two different DC numbers? I hang out at several ebay boards, btw, and after over 6300 transactions, I've never had a problem with combining shipping, or Paypal or proving I've sent an item, even if paid separate and combined.

It's moot anyway, since that wasn't the OP's problem. She got her item, it was what she expected and she knew the shipping in advance.