A question for parents of teens...

[NHdisneylover]

This just in--not all churches are bible-based.

My children have attended this program (Unitarian-Universalist) and it is amazing.

I agree it is an amazing program. I am not kidding when I say that not having access to it is one of my biggest regrets in moving.

You're talking about fundamentalism, which is a tangent from the current conversation.

I can buy into the idea that some of the mnior Biblical principles are outdated. I believe someone earlier on this thread said something about the Old Testament forbidding the Jews from eating pork (could've been that I read that somewhere else and I'm remembering it wrong), and that was good advice back in the days when they were wandering the dessert without benefit of refrigeration -- but doesn't really apply to our lives today.

I can also buy into other "gray areas" such as working on Sunday. Some people say that the concept is what's important, that God knew that man needed to rest and focus upon just spiritual needs one day out of the week. Sunday is traditional, but you can certainly garner the same benefits on Monday. People also point out that this is the only one of the 10 commandments that isn't repeated in the New Testament.

I can buy into those things.

But in the case of this program, what I'm hearing is that this program has no Biblical basis and is in direct contradiction to a rather important (of course you might disagree with the modifier "important") instruction that's given multiple times in the Bible.

I really expected that it was based upon something in the Bible -- something that could be interpreted in multiple ways -- and I'm surprised to see that it seems to be based upon modern morals.

See, I would argue that just as pork can be better cooked now and therefore that prohibition is outdated, living in a society with multiple birth control and the abilities for women to work themselves and support their children (and much more acceptance by men now to raise someone else's kid as their own) that the rules against premarital sex are equally outdated.


Regardless, it is great that your church works for you and that mine and Magpie's and Pigeon's work for us. I love that about living in a time and place where I can choose my religious to match my beliefs. Don't you?

I like that we both get to parent according to our beliefs too. So, you can teach your children that they should abstain from sex until marriage and you can teach them this is a religious thing. I can teach my children that sex is a physical and spiritual things and what guides when is emotional maturity, type of relationship they are in, and ability to prevent STDs and unwanted pregnancies. Now, if your child ever dates my child we might run into some issues but generally I love that we can each raise our children with our own beliefs--makes the world so much more interesting doesn't it?

 

[TheZue]

I don't believe in saving sex for marriage...but there is a story in my family that is absolutely hilarious/sad. The night before my mom got married in 1972 her Grandmother pulled her aside, she wanted to make sure that my mom had already had sex with my dad Aparently my great grandfather was terrible in bed and my great grandmother wanted to make sure that my mother wasn't stuck in a similar marriage. Talk about awkward but really before divorce I can see where she was coming from, either way making sure you are compatible ahead of time can save a lot of heart ache.

 

[disfan07]

Okay...so ill put this out there. At 21, yes I am still a virgin BUT....not for any belief of abstinence or no premarital sex or any of that. I actually believe that abstinence only education is a crock but thats a different story.

The reason I am is because I have been very sick for the past 5 years. So that puts me at getting sick at about 16. Well....when you are sick and in and out of hospitals for 5 years, the possibility of having sex kind of goes waaaaaayyyyy down. I've been dating since I was 14, but it's never gone that far.

And it's not just that i've been sick. I've been on Methotrexate sine I was 18. BIG no no to get pregnant on that. You cannot carry a baby while on that medication. So after like 8,000 discussion with all of my doctors, I made the choice that right now, it's not worth the risk to my health. While I am on birth control and have been for 7 years, I know that accidents happen its just not a risk I am willing to take.

So do I believe in waiting until marriage....nope. And in reality, I dont plan on it. Once I am in a long term committed relationship (maybe engaged...probably not), I will go off my medication and that will change everything. But until that happens, I dont see the benefits of going off this medication JUST so that I can have sex....it will be a deciding factor obviously, but right now there is no guy in my life to even make the consideration to go off of the meds.

Now....if I hadnt been sick for most of high school.....would I have waited....most likely not.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

I totally disagree about chemistry being at its peak when you first meet. On the other hand, in this hypothetical situation, having a comparison could be a bad thing:

Suppose you're "sampling the choices", and you date a guy with whom you have great sexual chemistry . . . but nothing else. Obviously, that's not enough, so you leave him. Then you meet a fantastic guy who's just great: Your values, goals, spending habits, lifestyles, etc. are similar. He likes your family. You can really see yourself growing old with him. He's perfect, EXCEPT that you keep comparing him to the other guy . . . and he's coming up short (take that literally, if you wish). Not that he's bad, but he isn't super-over-the-top-fantastic.

If you didn't have a comparison in your mind, you'd be thrilled with Mr. Fantastic, but knowing that Mr. Jerk-Who's-Great-In-Bed is out there makes you less-than-satisfied with average sex. You can't say that's not a possibility.

Sorry - but I do not want my kids to "settle" for average sex. I believe you can find a spouse who has the whole package - including great sex.

And the OWL program is amazing - you should check it out.

 

[mhsjax]

Ok, because I am in a mood this am, (it is Monday) For all of those out theri not wanting their kid to settle for average sex. How do you know that YOUR kid isn't the one that is average? While your kid is comparing lovers, maybe they are the one woe is really boring and average. Just a thought.

By the way, I hope that my kids at the very least wait until they are in a VERY committed relationship, as in engaged, before sex. I don't buy into trying it our before to see if it is good enough, just as I personally don't believe in living together either

PS Mrs. Pete, I agree with you 100%

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

Ok, because I am in a mood this am, (it is Monday) For all of those out theri not wanting their kid to settle for average sex. How do you know that YOUR kid isn't the one that is average? While your kid is comparing lovers, maybe they are the one woe is really boring and average. Just a thought.

By the way, I hope that my kids at the very least wait until they are in a VERY committed relationship, as in engaged, before sex. I don't buy into trying it our before to see if it is good enough, just as I personally don't believe in living together either

PS Mrs. Pete, I agree with you 100%

If your child is average then I think it is bad parenting. Sex education should be more than just pregnancy and STD prevention. It should also be about sex.

Just like everything else, knowledge is key.

And if you chose to be ok with just average, good for you. I refuse to settle.

 

[Angelhalo]

We follow Jesus and the bible is our authority so our children are learning that sex is for marriage. No, we didn't wait, but we weren't Christians back then and did lots of stuff I hope our kids won't do. I don't think I'm naive, I just trust God's word over regular people just like myself.

Agreed. I don't believe in saving one's virginity, "for the church" as one person said. The idea is to do it for God and for your spouse. I am a Christian and I believe in the word of God. The things I do or don't do because of my religion have nothing to do with "church".

For what it is worth, DH and I didn't make it either. We both had sex before marriage and not with each other. And, I DO regret it. However I have asked for forgiveness from both he and my God and have moved on.

I would say more but since religion isn't allowed I will leave it at that.

 

[mhsjax]

If your child is average then I think it is bad parenting. Sex education should be more than just pregnancy and STD prevention. It should also be about sex.

Just like everything else, knowledge is key.

And if you chose to be ok with just average, good for you. I refuse to settle.

Sorry but unless you are in bed with your kid, you can't teach him. Sure you can tell him what to do, but that doesn't matter. OMG< bad parenting equals bad sex, that is hysterical you have to be kidding. And really are you goin to be there in bed with your kid while they are having sex instructing them. That is a joke. You can know all the details and still stink at sex. Sorry. And no I am not talking aobut me or my DH I am talking about people who want their kids to have sex first so they can make sure they have a partner that is good. Again, what make any os us think that our kids aren't the ones that stink in bed. You don't know and your kids won't know, only the ones who sleep with your kids will really know the truth.

Oh and by the way, who said I settled for average?

 

[mhsjax]

Sorry - but I do not want my kids to "settle" for average sex. I believe you can find a spouse who has the whole package - including great sex.

And the OWL program is amazing - you should check it out.

AGain, how do you know that YOUR kid isn't the average one? OMG this is the craziest conversation, you can't be sure of how your kid is in bed, this is just disturbing.

 

[Jennasis]

When I was dating my ex-DH, he had an apartment of his own and I wanted to move in with him. My mom threw a bit of a fit, going on and on about the horrors of pre-marital cohabitation. Among her brilliant arguments? She said if we had a disagreement about something, it would be too easy for me to just move out and walk away from the relationship. If we were married, we'd be "forced" to work it out.

So, not living with him, I was unable to discover PRIOR to marrying him, that he was an abusive you-know-what. When we got married, he did a Jekyll and Hyde and became a deviant abuser on DAY ONE.

Took me 7 months to "walk away" from the marriage. The kicker was that my mom HATED my ex. She just didn't want me living with him because she hated him!

Brilliant.

 

[mhsjax]

I date my DH for 3 years I knew him inside and out. I would never want my DD to live with a man or DS to live with a woman. I don't see how you can date someone for a significant amount of time and not have a clue that they are abusive. And I am glad you got away from that scum and yes abusers are scum. But he must have really been good at hiding it.

I guess I was lucky, we dated 3.5 years before marrying and still 25 years later people still say, wow they still actually like each other. I do think it was because we dated so long and we knew everything about each other.

PS: DH"s father,during a discussion of spouse abuse, told me that he if he ever hit me to let him know and he would take him out, I wouldn't have to worry about it.

 

[Jennasis]

I date my DH for 3 years I knew him inside and out. I would never want my DD to live with a man or DS to live with a woman. I don't see how you can date someone for a significant amount of time and not have a clue that they are abusive. And I am glad you got away from that scum and yes abusers are scum. But he must have really been good at hiding it.

I guess I was lucky, we dated 3.5 years before marrying and still 25 years later people still say, wow they still actually like each other. I do think it was because we dated so long and we knew everything about each other.

PS: DH"s father,during a discussion of spouse abuse, told me that he if he ever hit me to let him know and he would take him out, I wouldn't have to worry about it.

As assure you it's possible. Never thought it would happen to me.

We dated for 3 1/2 years before we married.

 

[Pigeon]

When you say Mosque, people assume Muslim. When you say Temple, people assume Jewish. And when you say Church, people assume Christian -- as in based upon Christ's teachings and words, the ones written in the Bible.

It doesn't sound like an amazing program, but that's why we all get to make individual choices for our children.

Well, I guess it's true what they say about what happens when you assume...

BTW, Hindus, Buddhists, LDS, Sikhs, Jains and some Eastern Orthodox have temples.

 

[rie'smom]

I date my DH for 3 years I knew him inside and out. I would never want my DD to live with a man or DS to live with a woman. I don't see how you can date someone for a significant amount of time and not have a clue that they are abusive. And I am glad you got away from that scum and yes abusers are scum. But he must have really been good at hiding it.

I guess I was lucky, we dated 3.5 years before marrying and still 25 years later people still say, wow they still actually like each other. I do think it was because we dated so long and we knew everything about each other.

PS: DH"s father,during a discussion of spouse abuse, told me that he if he ever hit me to let him know and he would take him out, I wouldn't have to worry about it.

Happened to me with my first husband. This man treated me like a queen until 1 week after we were married. As others have posted, he turned from Dr. Jekyll into Mr. Hyde. I left before 1 year of marriage.

 

[mhsjax]

As assure you it's possible. Never thought it would happen to me.

We dated for 3 1/2 years before we married.

Well, there are people out there that are really good at hiding things. Just glad you got away from him. I just don't get why some men do this. I will stop there before I get into trouble by suggesting some things we should do to these guys.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Well, I guess it's true what they say about what happens when you assume...

BTW, Hindus, Buddhists, LDS, Sikhs, Jains and some Eastern Orthodox have temples.

Also my hairdresser is Korean and she was brought up Catholic in Korea and they call it "Temple" as opposed to "church" or "mass" here.

 

[mhsjax]

Happened to me with my first husband. This man treated me like a queen until 1 week after we were married. As others have posted, he turned from Dr. Jekyll into Mr. Hyde. I left before 1 year of marriage.

I also have to wonder, if they are like this, if you just lived together and nothing "legal" I wonder if they would be abused you. Seems to me, and I could be wrong, that is they are that good at hiding what they do, that maybe they would have waited until you were married and not just living together. It is about control, and if you are legally married, they probably feel that they have more control over you, especially if you happen to be unfortunate enough to have kids with these jerks.

PS, See above post, I think these guys are disgusting.

 

[Magpie]

Okay, for anyone who is wondering how a parent teaches a child not to be an "average lover"...

Here's what a parent can teach a child:

*Communicate.

*Be considerate.

*Think of others.

*Be willing to try new things.

*Put yourself in someone else's shoes.

*Try to see things from other people's points of view.

*Be open to learning from others.

*Expect to be treated with the same consideration you give others.

Of course, you're probably saying none of this is Sex Education, but it IS. Just like your sexuality is an integral part of your life, sex education is an integral part of parenting. Sex education starts at birth.

A good lover doesn't know a million techniques. A good lover is considerate and eager to please. A good lover takes his or her time and asks, "Do you like this? I want to know what makes you feel good!" Strong sexual partnerships improve over time, as each person gets to know the other better.

The skills that make a person a good lover, are the skills that will make them a good spouse, a good employee... they're critical interpersonal skills. And a parent can teach ALL of them.

And this is part of what we teach in the OWL program.

 

[LilyWDW]

I guess I just don't get it...

How is someone who has dated a person for a year and then gotten married more ready for sex then a couple who has been dating 9+ years? How is someone suddenly ready for the emotional and physical bond that an intimate relationship can produce just because they have gone through a historic ceremony?

I don't believe people should just sleep around, but once you become an adult I believe you have the mental capacity to deal with an intimate relationship and thus should make the choice for you. Once you are an adult and willing to accept the consequences of the decision, then it really doesn't need to go beyond that.

 

[mhsjax]

Okay, for anyone who is wondering how a parent teaches a child not to be an "average lover"...

Here's what a parent can teach a child:

*Communicate.

*Be considerate.

*Think of others.

*Be willing to try new things.

*Put yourself in someone else's shoes.

*Try to see things from other people's points of view.

*Be open to learning from others.

*Expect to be treated with the same consideration you give others.

Of course, you're probably saying none of this is Sex Education, but it IS. Just like your sexuality is an integral part of your life, sex education is an integral part of parenting. Sex education starts at birth.

A good lover doesn't know a million techniques. A good lover is considerate and eager to please. A good lover takes his or her time and asks, "Do you like this? I want to know what makes you feel good!" Strong sexual partnerships improve over time, as each person gets to know the other better.

The skills that make a person a good lover, are the skills that will make them a good spouse, a good employee... they're critical interpersonal skills. And a parent can teach ALL of them.

And this is part of what we teach in the OWL program.

I am not stupid, I understand that, come on. But you can tell someone all you want HOW to do something, My parents could have and did explain over and over again how to drive a car, guess what, you don't get good at it until you practice, this is why you have a learners permit, maybe we should issue learners permits for sex. COME ON PEOPLE, if you don't believe in waiting for marriage that is fine, but don't sit there and tell me that you can instruct your kids on how to have good sex. Yes you can give them the information, but you can't judge their technique, don't make me get graphic here. Great sex involves not only knowing how to treat your partner, but how to DO IT. Sorry but parenting stops there, my kis will have to use their own knowledge that I give them, I can't help it if they may or may not be good at it, and none of you cam either, and if you can, well that is disturbing cause that means you are in there with them.

And sorry but a good lover has the above info as well as very good technique.