A question for parents of teens...

[chicagodisneyfan]

Okay, for anyone who is wondering how a parent teaches a child not to be an "average lover"...

Here's what a parent can teach a child:

*Communicate.

*Be considerate.

*Think of others.

*Be willing to try new things.

*Put yourself in someone else's shoes.

*Try to see things from other people's points of view.

*Be open to learning from others.

*Expect to be treated with the same consideration you give others.

Of course, you're probably saying none of this is Sex Education, but it IS. Just like your sexuality is an integral part of your life, sex education is an integral part of parenting. Sex education starts at birth.

A good lover doesn't know a million techniques. A good lover is considerate and eager to please. A good lover takes his or her time and asks, "Do you like this? I want to know what makes you feel good!" Strong sexual partnerships improve over time, as each person gets to know the other better.

The skills that make a person a good lover, are the skills that will make them a good spouse, a good employee... they're critical interpersonal skills. And a parent can teach ALL of them.

And this is part of what we teach in the OWL program.

mrspete - how can you NOT think the above is an amazing program?

Magpie- thank you for explaining to mhsjax!

Mhsjax - the reason I think you settled is because you are so sure waiting is the right thing to do. If you had fireworks and a phenomenal partner, you would want the same for your kids.

 

[Magpie]

I am not stupid, I understand that, come on. But you can tell someone all you want HOW to do something, My parents could have and did explain over and over again how to drive a car, guess what, you don't get good at it until you practice, this is why you have a learners permit, maybe we should issue learners permits for sex. COME ON PEOPLE, if you don't believe in waiting for marriage that is fine, but don't sit there and tell me that you can instruct your kids on how to have good sex. Yes you can give them the information, but you can't judge their technique, don't make me get graphic here. Great sex involves not only knowing how to treat your partner, but how to DO IT. Sorry but parenting stops there, my kis will have to use their own knowledge that I give them, I can't help it if they may or may not be good at it, and none of you cam either, and if you can, well that is disturbing cause that means you are in there with them.

And sorry but a good lover has the above info as well as very good technique.

Well... you may have understood me, but I'm very confused by you.

Everyone knows that Tab A goes in Slot B (though the actual physical location of tabs and slots may vary depending on the gender and preference of your partner). But knowing that won't make you a good lover.

There's no particular "technique" to having sex. Cosmopolitan magazine talks about "techniques" every month and it's hilarious because all of those techniques in the hands of an inconsiderate lover have the potential to go horribly wrong (some more than others - any technique that includes the word "twist" is definitely something to approach with caution!).

The nitty gritty of what works in bed is going to be different for different people. NO ONE can tell another person what techniques work, except for the person on the receiving end. And what works for one lover, may not work for another.

Good sex is about communication and practice. Without communication sex might be awful or it might be adequate, but sure it's not going to be good or great.

As for practice... well, practice is awesome.

 

[IUTBAM]

OP here. Wow, this has turned into a very interesting and enlightening thread!

My reasons for promoting abstinence for my DD are not religiously based, as we aren't regular church goers, although I do consider myself Christian. They are from personal experience (I wanted until I was engaged), and from seeing many friends in college make very poor decisions. I have also told her that we would not think any less of her if she didn't wait until marriage, but that in our opinion (which we are thankful she respects and definitely takes to heart), sex outside of a LONG-TERM (and I mean truly long-term...not 5-6 months), committed relationship is not a good idea.

I'm not worried at all about my DD...she has an amazing head on her shoulders, and we have a very open and loving relationship, and talk about EVERYTHING. She teases me often that I know her better than she does.

 

[Magpie]

Having been married for 20 years, I'll agree that that this aspect of our relationship has only improved with time and age -- not really something I expected, and it's more an emotional thing than a physical thing.

Oh, I would say it's definitely been a physical improvement for us. Emotionally we've matured, too, of course.

This is a church program? What portions of the Bible support it?

We do use the Bible in our worship, but the OWL program is specifically supported by our Seven Principals of our Faith. These are:

* the inherent worth and dignity of every person.
* justice, equity, and compassion in human relations.
* acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations.
* a free and responsible search for truth and meaning.
* the right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregation and in society at large.
* the goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all.
* respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

Unitarian Universalism is Judeo-Christian in nature and origin, but whether you consider us "Christian" is up to you. I grew up Quaker, and not everyone considers them "Christian", either. Quakers go to "Meeting" instead of "Church".

 

[Kat77]

This reminds me of a book that came out a couple of years ago, They Year of Living Biblically.

http://www.amazon.com/Year-Living-Biblically-Literally-Possible/dp/0743291476

Very interesting. The author followed the literal rules set forth in the Bible for a year.

Cool! This sounds very neat. Have you read it? I might actually order this and pass it around friends.

 

[Magpie]

Cool! This sounds very neat. Have you read it? I might actually order this and pass it around friends.

I've read it! It's a lot of fun. Definitely worth checking out!

 

[disykat]

Okay, for anyone who is wondering how a parent teaches a child not to be an "average lover"...

Here's what a parent can teach a child:

*Communicate.

*Be considerate.

*Think of others.

*Be willing to try new things.

*Put yourself in someone else's shoes.

*Try to see things from other people's points of view.

*Be open to learning from others.

*Expect to be treated with the same consideration you give others.

Of course, you're probably saying none of this is Sex Education, but it IS. Just like your sexuality is an integral part of your life, sex education is an integral part of parenting. Sex education starts at birth.

A good lover doesn't know a million techniques. A good lover is considerate and eager to please. A good lover takes his or her time and asks, "Do you like this? I want to know what makes you feel good!" Strong sexual partnerships improve over time, as each person gets to know the other better.

The skills that make a person a good lover, are the skills that will make them a good spouse, a good employee... they're critical interpersonal skills. And a parent can teach ALL of them.

And this is part of what we teach in the OWL program.

Your post explains how I knew without a 'test drive' that sex would be good in my marriage.

Of course we want to teach our kids all those things. I'm teaching my kids all those things, but along with an emphaiss in fidelity to the person you marry. Apparently OWL has an "optional religious component," but it was quite clear on their website that it's not a religious program.

 

[Sorsha]

We are not religious at all, agnostic leaning towards atheist, and so do not follow the Bible as any sort of guide to life any more than we would follow Aesop's fables, the Koran, The Torah, The Code of the Brethren, or any other Rules of Life. More guidelines, really, than actual rules.

I do NOT believe in abstinence until marriage - unless, of course, its what you want to do. Its all a matter of personal choice. But the body is programmed to turn on sexually somewhere in the middle of the teen years, and with the appropriate amount of sexual education and careful birth control and prophylactics, there is no reason why my teenagers should deprive themselves of sexual experimentation. Now I do NOT believe in sleeping around - there is also no reason for my teen to become the ***** of Babylon - but within a consenting relationship between two teens of appropriate legal age I have no issue with it, and my teen knows this.

IMHO I see no reason to come to the marriage bed not having any idea what else life might hold - that, in my opinion, is a midlife crisis waiting to happen. Then, when boredom and discontent strikes, you begin to wonder... what else is out there? What might it be like? What might I be missing? I say, sow those wild oats while you are young, have fun, and then when you are ready to settle down, be sure you have chosen the right one, and cherish your memories, but don't regret what might have been.

 

[Magpie]

Your post explains how I knew without a 'test drive' that sex would be good in my marriage.

Of course we want to teach our kids all those things. I'm teaching my kids all those things, but along with an emphaiss in fidelity to the person you marry. Apparently OWL has an "optional religious component," but it was quite clear on their website that it's not a religious program.

And the nice thing about OWL not being a religious program (except in the sense of emphasizing the inherent worth and dignity of all human beings, as per our principles) is that it can reach children outside our church community.

Several of the teens who come to our church on Sunday for OWL are not Unitarian, and their families do not attend our church.

BTW - we teach fidelity, too. It's all part and parcel of respecting other people. Lying, cheating and deception are quite opposite our principles.

 

[mhsjax]

mrspete - how can you NOT think the above is an amazing program?

Magpie- thank you for explaining to mhsjax!

Mhsjax - the reason I think you settled is because you are so sure waiting is the right thing to do. If you had fireworks and a phenomenal partner, you would want the same for your kids.

First of all, please don't thank anyone for explaining anything
to me. the above is nothing more than common sense and something that all parents should teach their kids. If you need a class to tell you this, well then I am sorry. And really, you don't know me and it is EXTEMELY insulting to me and my DH that you think I settled. Wow.

By the way, I did and still do have fireworkd 25 years later, and for what it is worth I didn't wait, I also said that I wanted my kids in a committed relationship at the least. But hey if you don't mind some boy practicing on your DD to hone up on his sex skills, more power to you.

You really do assume so much. I want my kids to have great sex. I don't think that they should just go for it to make sure the person of the day is great in bed. I bet you don't either. Sorry, but I worked in a OB?GYN office for 10 years, I saw many many many girls with STD's and unwanted pregnancy, I just don't want that for my kids. Somehow, I think if I had to choose between wanting ok sex and no STD's I would choose the ok sex. Hopefully, she will have a great partner and so will my boys, doesn't mean they have to sleep around to get it. Oh an by the way, of you can learn about sex in your OWL class, you partner can certainly teach you a thing or two.

 

[mhsjax]

We are not religious at all, agnostic leaning towards atheist, and so do not follow the Bible as any sort of guide to life any more than we would follow Aesop's fables, the Koran, The Torah, The Code of the Brethren, or any other Rules of Life. More guidelines, really, than actual rules.

I do NOT believe in abstinence until marriage - unless, of course, its what you want to do. Its all a matter of personal choice. But the body is programmed to turn on sexually somewhere in the middle of the teen years, and with the appropriate amount of sexual education and careful birth control and prophylactics, there is no reason why my teenagers should deprive themselves of sexual experimentation. Now I do NOT believe in sleeping around - there is also no reason for my teen to become the ***** of Babylon - but within a consenting relationship between two teens of appropriate legal age I have no issue with it, and my teen knows this.

IMHO I see no reason to come to the marriage bed not having any idea what else life might hold - that, in my opinion, is a midlife crisis waiting to happen. Then, when boredom and discontent strikes, you begin to wonder... what else is out there? What might it be like? What might I be missing? I say, sow those wild oats while you are young, have fun, and then when you are ready to settle down, be sure you have chosen the right one, and cherish your memories, but don't regret what might have been.

I remember an article a few years back, they were interviewing a perons who was at the time the foremost expect in AIDS and HIV. He said that the use of condoms was no guarantee and that he himself would NEVER have sex with a person known to have AIDS or HIV even though using a condom, they fail and sorry but sowing a few wild oats isn't worth the possibility of dying. Even at the point in my life when I wasn't a Christian, I had the same views. I wouldn't have sacrificed my health and life for some cheap thrill. Not to mention the life of my future DH and my kids.

Your life, your choice but I don't agree. By the way, I have no regrets and no mid life crisis. But just so you guys know, I didn't wait until married, but was engaged.

 

[Magpie]

First of all, please don't thank anyone for explaining anything
to me. the above is nothing more than common sense and something that all parents should teach their kids. If you need a class to tell you this, well then I am sorry. And really, you don't know me and it is EXTEMELY insulting to me and my DH that you think I settled. Wow.

By the way, I did and still do have fireworkd 25 years later, and for what it is worth I didn't wait, I also said that I wanted my kids in a committed relationship at the least. But hey if you don't mind some boy practicing on your DD to hone up on his sex skills, more power to you.

You really do assume so much. I want my kids to have great sex. I don't think that they should just go for it to make sure the person of the day is great in bed. I bet you don't either. Sorry, but I worked in a OB?GYN office for 10 years, I saw many many many girls with STD's and unwanted pregnancy, I just don't want that for my kids. Somehow, I think if I had to choose between wanting ok sex and no STD's I would choose the ok sex. Hopefully, she will have a great partner and so will my boys, doesn't mean they have to sleep around to get it. Oh an by the way, of you can learn about sex in your OWL class, you partner can certainly teach you a thing or two.

That's sort of the whole point.

By the way, OWL is not a single class. It's a program. There are many classes over the course of a year. There are also many levels, from Kingergarten/First Grade, all the way up to Adult OWL and OWL for Senior Citizens. Not all churches offer all of them, of course.

In the younger grades it's more about how your body works, and relationships and respecting yourself and others. In the older grades it gets quite technical with information about disease, birth control, rape, sexual roles in society, gender issues, etc... It's extremely comprehensive.

Of course this can all be taught by a parent. But some parents don't want to, and some parents don't have accurate or up-to-date information. And some kids are shy about asking personal questions of their parents.

No one wants their children to go around willy-nilly having sex with all and sundry - or, worse, with strangers. I completely support a person's right to choose to wait until after marriage to have sex with their partner. But since sex is an integral part of an adult relationship, some people think that it doesn't make sense to wait until you're already married to find out what the other person is like in bed. And I think that's a legitimate point of view, too.

Depending on how you view it, sexual abstinence could be analogous to having a blindfold on all the time while you're dating someone. Think about it... You can get to know someone really well without ever knowing what they look like. In fact, maybe you'll know the REAL them even better if all you have to go on is their voice and words. Therefore, everyone should wait until you're married before you see them. Physical appearance is just a distraction, right?

 

[autumnpalm]

I don't have children yet, but I believe in saving sex until marriage. For what it's worth, I do not think it is an unrealistic expectation to have.

I am a university student in my early twenties. I go to a Christian university and could count on one hand the number of people I know who have had sex- both men and women. The vast, vast, vast majority are committed to waiting for their husband or wife. Many of my friends are in relationships and just about all of them have had the opportunity to engage in sexual activities. For them (and for myself), it really is a choice and one that is important to them. Many of us (again, including myself) were not even raised in Christian homes. For parents who are raising children that they are teaching these values to, know that it is not as unrealistic as it may seem that your children will wait until marriage.

When I do get married, I do not believe at all that I will be settling. I believe what is taught in the Bible and I trust God's plan that sex is designed for marriage, and I believe that it is for our good that it is designed that way.

 

[Wishing on a star]

WOW, this thread has now gone WAY beyond 'interesting'.....

Sorry, but any insinuation that a parent has any input in a persons physical sexual activity is just downright warped...

And, I don't care how much 'practice' has been involved....

The only person who can teach somebody how to have/give a good physical experience, is that person....
Everyone is different.

We are talking about a very intimate personal interaction... not the State Drivers Handbook.

 

[Sorsha]

WOW, this thread has now gone WAY beyond 'interesting'.....

Sorry, but any insinuation that a parent has any input in a persons physical sexual activity is just downright warped...

And, I don't care how much 'practice' has been involved....

The only person who can teach somebody how to have/give a good physical experience, is that person....
Everyone is different.

We are talking about a very intimate personal interaction... not the State Drivers Handbook.

at the bolded part.

But I very much agree.

I began being intimate with my boyfriends when I was 16, and if my mom had tried giving me any advice beyond how to use birth control and how to not catch any diseases I would have been MORTIFIED. And so would she. SO not something you discuss with your mommy.

 

[MELSMICE]

WOW, this thread has now gone WAY beyond 'interesting'.....

Sorry, but any insinuation that a parent has any input in a persons physical sexual activity is just downright warped...

And, I don't care how much 'practice' has been involved....

The only person who can teach somebody how to have/give a good physical experience, is that person....
Everyone is different.

We are talking about a very intimate personal interaction... not the State Drivers Handbook.

I was kind of thinking the same thing about a parent teaching their child how to be a good sexual partner.

I believe parents can be good role models for their children and show/teach them how to be compassionate, caring, considerate, open to learning & everything else mentioned previously without having it be about a sexual relationship.

I believe having those qualities in a relationship can carry over in to the bedroom, but when talking to my children about relationships and how to treat others, I would not mention that it will enhance your sexual relationship.

That is a private thing which I believe is between 2 people that love each other. It's not for the entire family to share.

 

[marcyinPA]

Well... you may have understood me, but I'm very confused by you.

Everyone knows that Tab A goes in Slot B (though the actual physical location of tabs and slots may vary depending on the gender and preference of your partner). But knowing that won't make you a good lover.

There's no particular "technique" to having sex. Cosmopolitan magazine talks about "techniques" every month and it's hilarious because all of those techniques in the hands of an inconsiderate lover have the potential to go horribly wrong (some more than others - any technique that includes the word "twist" is definitely something to approach with caution!).

The nitty gritty of what works in bed is going to be different for different people. NO ONE can tell another person what techniques work, except for the person on the receiving end. And what works for one lover, may not work for another.

Good sex is about communication and practice. Without communication sex might be awful or it might be adequate, but sure it's not going to be good or great.

As for practice... well, practice is awesome.

Having never heard of this OWL program that you speak of, I'm curious. What ages is it designed for? And does the program really encourage "practice"?

Our church (Christian-Presbyterian) does a sex program for 6-8 grades, but it is abstinence based, which is my comfort level. We have had parents in the past, however, who are not comfortable with the abstinence approach, and have pulled their kids from that particular program. Likewise, I know for a fact that if we didn't encourage abstinence, we'd have many many angry parents.

IMHO, a Christian church should be giving kids Bible based information . If parents have differing views, they need to share those with their kids.

I did catch that you are not a Christian church...which is why I guess your teachings are not Bible-based.

 

[mhsjax]

at the bolded part.

But I very much agree.

I began being intimate with my boyfriends when I was 16, and if my mom had tried giving me any advice beyond how to use birth control and how to not catch any diseases I would have been MORTIFIED. And so would she. SO not something you discuss with your mommy.

Better to discuss birth control with your mommy than your friends. Half of the time these friends are idiots, and yes I know from experience. If my DD asked me about birth control I would give her the facts no sugar coating and hope she makes the correct decision, but I don't want some friend of hers that may have incorrect info to tell my DD how to avoid STDs when that wrong info may endanger her life. This is SO something you discuss with your kids, and not doing it is just irresponsible.

 

[MELSMICE]

Better to discuss birth control with your mommy than your friends. Half of the time these friends are idiots, and yes I know from experience. If my DD asked me about birth control I would give her the facts no sugar coating and hope she makes the correct decision, but I don't want some friend of hers that may have incorrect info to tell my DD how to avoid STDs when that wrong info may endanger her life. This is SO something you discuss with your kids, and not doing it is just irresponsible.

Read below - she said if her mom had given her any advice BEYOND how to use birthday & hot to not catch a disease. It sounds like she did talk to her mom about these things, just not about "the act".

if my mom had tried giving me any advice beyond how to use birth control and how to not catch any diseases I would have been MORTIFIED

 

[NHdisneylover]

I remember an article a few years back, they were interviewing a perons who was at the time the foremost expect in AIDS and HIV. He said that the use of condoms was no guarantee and that he himself would NEVER have sex with a person known to have AIDS or HIV even though using a condom, they fail and sorry but sowing a few wild oats isn't worth the possibility of dying. Even at the point in my life when I wasn't a Christian, I had the same views. I wouldn't have sacrificed my health and life for some cheap thrill. Not to mention the life of my future DH and my kids.

Your life, your choice but I don't agree. By the way, I have no regrets and no mid life crisis. But just so you guys know, I didn't wait until married, but was engaged.

I am not sure about stats, but I think having sex with properly used protection, with a committed partner and both partners having been recently tested carries lower risk of death )from contracting AIDS) than driving across town. Do you allow your kids to ride in cars? Drive when of age (and proving they have learned safety rules by getting a DL)?
I totally respect having moral issues about sex before marriage (though it is not my stance) and I absolutely think it is critical that all young people be educated in how to properly protect themselves from disease, but I think saying you should never have sex outside of marriage because it is otherwise too deadly is awfully sensationalist.

A tangentially related issue this thread brought into my mind: what if your child turns out to be gay and does not reside in one of precious few states they can legally marry in? Does everyone who objects to sex out of marriage also object to homosexuality, or are some of you willing to make exceptions in this case?