A Crowded Weekend, FP+, And An Offsite Stay-Reporting Back (Very Long)

[JimmyV]

We are here this week and with lower crowds this has not been an issue for the most part.

Please understand that my post was intended to describe what we observed over the first truly crowded stretch since FP+ was fully implemented, allowing people who are planning Easter Break and high season visits to know what to expect. In no way did I intend this to be an essay on the universal impact of FP+. When we were there, AK ranged from 7-8 on the Crowd Calendar. Yesterday, when you were there, it was a 3. There are obviously going to be significant differences, some linear and some perhaps, even exponential.

I didn't think of this until later but am wondering if that used up the fast pass for all family members or just the one who scanned.If it was just the one who scanned that could create even more issues if the others go into the app and now adjust that fast pass since they didn't use it yet.

I assume that what you are describing is a procedure by which only one member of the group taps the first Mickey, thus speeding up the "outside" line in order to get people into the "regular" queue. But then I assume that everyone must tap the second Mickey at the boarding area. If that is the case, then I think that everyone's FP+ would be recorded as being used. If they are implementing this procedure, then it is clear that the supervisor-looking CMs who we witnessed observing the untenable situation during our stay quickly decided that changes needed to be made. Good for them.

 

[surferdave]

I don't have a Twitter account. Can you describe what the photo showed the line being like on President's Day? We were there on the Saturday of that weekend and the Touring Plan crowd number for AK that day was a 7. I imagine that on that Monday, it was far more crowded.

Edit to add: Just checked TP and it was an "8" on that Monday.

This was the picture of the Everest FP+ line that was posted.

It was from the thread titled "At the park now, FP+ lines are snaking through the park"; I'm reluctant to link it because I don't want to revive it.

 

[JimmyV]

If I can add a thought to this - I was thinking about how in the last few months Disney also radically revamped their guest assistance program.

With the old program, a party with a member who needed special access had a card that could be shown to the CM at the FP entrance. It took only about two seconds - as long as showing a paper FP.

With the new program, those who wish to use the DAS for access need to have a card with a specific time written on it, and the FP CM has to stop, check the card, and make sure the attraction and time match. They also have to confirm identity using a photo.

These changes may add only - what? maybe 10 or 15 seconds - to each special assistance group (unless, as with the blue Mickey, there is a problem, and then it would add more). But that might be enough that this concurrent change may have some part in why these lines are getting so long.

Excellent observation. The problem really does lie with the first Mickey. As long as there is a Mickey outside the queue area, then people will have to line up to use it, and to do so, they will have to occupy open park space. Using that Mickey is simply not as fast as the old system of having a CM lazily checking paper tickets.

 

[Ofinn]

This report really does reinforce many of the FP+ critics worries.

1) that essentially FP+ will become the new standby, and that essentially unless you are willing to wait in massive lines, you will be pre-booking your 3 attractions, and that's pretty much it. Though, people will say "Hey, there is RD"

2) RD will become less valuable. Your experience with headliners have 75 min waits (posted at 25) by 9am, is exactly what many of us worried about. We have been told over and over again, that "This will never happen" "people won't show up for 9am FPs" ... well, apparently it happened, and if its happened once, I imagine its going to happen again. It makes sense that this happens, one of the major premises of this system is after all to disburse the crowds, to maximize efficiency of the attractions, meaning that they will be used to their maximum all day, not just in the afternoon.

So sure, you can still do RD and run to the rides and get a couple in quick (though its hilarious when people say "I hated having to run for FPs" but who say you can still rush around to get in headliners at RD). But from your report, it would seem you can get LESS done, even at RD, much less done on busy days.

I wonder how much more this will become apparent, while its always been true that RD could have been used to maximize your trip, it wasn't as necessary, if it continues to be more necessary, more people might just clue in, and RD might become much less valuable.

In the hot months I think most people will be booking their FP early in the day. Who want's to show up at the park at 1pm in the summer. We have always been able to ride everything we want by 1100 am without fast passes. I think the long fp lines at 0900 are going to really change the rope drop experience.

 

[Mkrop]

I am assuming this is also an issue with them enforcing return times as well, everyone is showing up at the same time for their windows where before some many not show up until later.


In the beg of Dec we were one of those families setting up early (not Rope Drop early) but morning FPs because we had many things going on in the evenings, MVMCP, a Hoop De Do Review, a CP. All those things made us not want to schedule FPs much later, so if you have people having the only option to make those 9amish FP+s due to other events, even fireworks, then you have the people who dont know any better, they are given options and they take them. This could be making the ques fill up faster at rope drop than ever before.

And is it is sad that all that wasted que space is now being utilized outside the attraction itself. They need to pull those blue Mickey people out of line and have a dedicated CM deal with them. We saw this at the Safari, there were only 2 CMs and they were trying to monitor the people coming in and deal with issues. We were several guests behind a family who was having issues, and instead of having them step aside, they kept having them try, then finally step aside so a manager CM could deal with them and then the rest of us got through the line pretty quickly, I am sure until the next blue Mickey. And that family I mentioned did finally get through as they were in the truck behind us

 

[JimmyV]

This was the picture of the Everest FP+ line that was posted.

It was from the thread titled "At the park now, FP+ lines are snaking through the park"; I'm reluctant to link it because I don't want to revive it.

Thanks for the photo. Frankly, it shows probably what was 1/3 of the line. I didn't see/read that thread since we were in FL when it was active and I didn't surf the internet while on vacation. I will do a search to see if I can catch it.

 

[Eastern]

Excellent observation. The problem really does lie with the first Mickey. As long as there is a Mickey outside the queue area, then people will have to line up to use it, and to do so, they will have to occupy open park space. Using that Mickey is simply not as fast as the old system of having a CM lazily checking paper tickets.

And you can't really put the first Mickey inside the queue area, because it would be impossible for people who are not eligible to be turned away. The lines would be a mess with rejects trying to make their way out, back the way they came in.

 

[Eastern]

They really should have taken that 1.5 billion (or whatever it cost) and built a couple of new rides.

If they could turn back time...

I'm not going to Disney at a peak time anymore. Too expensive and impossible. I really don't see how they can make any sense out of this FP+ madness. Now that everyone is involved, they must see the essential capacity issue.

You can't get something out of nothing.

 

[JimmyV]

And you can't really put the first Mickey inside the queue area, because it would be impossible for people who are not eligible to be turned away. The lines would be a mess with rejects trying to make their way out, back the way they came in.

But there is a way to turn people away, and that is the second Mickey at the boarding area. Here is one possible solution. Place a Mickey outside the queue entrance, but off to the side. Place very visible signage at the entrance to the queue that says that THIS ENTRANCE IS FOR GUESTS WITH VALID FP+ ONLY, AND ONLY FOR THE TIME STATED ON THE CLOCK. IF YOU ARE UNSURE IF YOU QUALIFY TO USE THIS ENTRANCE, PLEASE TAP YOUR MAGIC BAND OR CARD ON THE MICKEY TO THE [LEFT/RIGHT]. IF IT TURNS GREEN, YOU MAY ENTER THE LINE. IF IT TURNS BLUE, YOU ARE NOT ELIGIBLE TO USE THIS LINE. PLEASE SEE A CAST MEMBER IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR ENCOUNTER ANY PROBLEMS.

This "outside Mickey" would serve the same function as the machines that people use to check their remaining balance on a subway/metro card. Not everyone would use it. In fact few would, so no line would build up. Most people who enter the FP entrance are legitimately there, so there is little need to muck up the park with crowds of people just to ferret out the 5-10% of the people who arrived too early or too late or who are simply clueless. Anyone who is uncertain of their FP status could check outside the queue to avoid the embarassment of getting all the way through the line only to be truned away. And for cheaters who get in line? Well, they still have to get through the second Mickey. And if they don't and have to be escorted out a side exit, do we have any sympathy for them?

 

[GeorgiaHoo]

To the OP thanks for the info - very good post. Wondering if you had any insight into how this is affecting the single rider lines? My wife and I are visiting late April/early May (when it hopefully won't be too crowded) and are perfectly happy doing single rider lines for EE, TT and whatever else has it (RnRC?). We've used single rider in the past when the kids were with us and found it to be a great way to get around long SB lines if you didn't have a FP.

It does sound like it is pretty important to make RD. Even if you run into a few problems it generally sounds like RD worked well for you. Did you go to RD during EMH? Seems like the EMH rope drops (which we don't usually do) might be the way to go and then hop over to another park later in the day.

 

[jenninaustin]

I'm going to be onsite in June (so I'm glad I'll be able to do my FP+ early - the preplanning doesn't bother me, I prefer it) - and I'm definitely going to come back and reread your advice about EPCOT since we'll be there for two days. I appreciate the insight and recommendations - especially about having a Soarin' day and a TT day (already told my fam that was the plan).

 

[AlexLovesCats]

I agree that the first Mickey is creating problems. I think a solution would be clear signage like OP stated. A giant sign that makes it clear that your band will be scanned before getting on the ride, and you will have to re-enter the line if you don't have a FP for the ride.

Instead of the first Mickey, I think there should be a CM (preferably bi-lingual) at the FP+ entrance who's job is to ask each group- Do you have a FP for "name of the ride"? When I was there a few weeks ago I noticed many non-English speaking guests getting to the first Mickey and then being told they have a FP for a totally different ride and it took a long time for the CM to try to explain they didn't have a FP for this ride and then tell them how to get to whatever ride they did have a FP for.

I also noticed a lot of people would just walk up to the entrance and join whatever line they saw going into the ride. This resulted in a lot of people who didn't have a FP+ joining the long FP+ line because at times you can't tell what it's a line for, just that it's going towards the entrance of the ride. When these people would then get to the first Mickey it would cause questions/arguments with cast members which again held up the line. This issue would be solved if the FP line was inside the line area like it's supposed to be, then people wouldn't just join the line they see heading into the ride.

It's going to be hard to fix this issue but I think clear signage would help at least a little bit.

 

[clsteve]

I agree that the first Mickey is creating problems. I think a solution would be clear signage like OP stated. A giant sign that makes it clear that your band will be scanned before getting on the ride, and you will have to re-enter the line if you don't have a FP for the ride.

Instead of the first Mickey, I think there should be a CM (preferably bi-lingual) at the FP+ entrance who's job is to ask each group- Do you have a FP for "name of the ride"? When I was there a few weeks ago I noticed many non-English speaking guests getting to the first Mickey and then being told they have a FP for a totally different ride and it took a long time for the CM to try to explain they didn't have a FP for this ride and then tell them how to get to whatever ride they did have a FP for.

I also noticed a lot of people would just walk up to the entrance and join whatever line they saw going into the ride. This resulted in a lot of people who didn't have a FP+ joining the long FP+ line because at times you can't tell what it's a line for, just that it's going towards the entrance of the ride. When these people would then get to the first Mickey it would cause questions/arguments with cast members which again held up the line. This issue would be solved if the FP line was inside the line area like it's supposed to be, then people wouldn't just join the line they see heading into the ride.

It's going to be hard to fix this issue but I think clear signage would help at least a little bit.

Yes, back to the basics would be an excellent place to start...

 

[Planogirl]

I don't have much faith that signs would help. I have a feeling that most of those who cause the lines to back up will still have the same issues.

 

[surferdave]

How do the other theme parks that have similar systems like FOTL passes or Flash Passes do it?

 

[damo]

How do the other theme parks that have similar systems like FOTL passes or Flash Passes do it?

It is all done visually.

Perhaps the magic bands need a screen that shows what fastpass you are eligible for at that time and then you just flash that screen to the CM instead of matching up the Mickeys.

 

[Shaden]

I don't have much faith that signs would help. I have a feeling that most of those who cause the lines to back up will still have the same issues.

I sadly have to agree, people don't read signs, even giant ones.

Living in Niagara falls we all know about certain areas that "idiots" (read tourists) cause havoc on the roads because they don't read the GIANT SIGNS about how to get to the falls, then do stupid stuff like try to swing across 4 lanes of highway traffic and double white divider lines to try and make an exit at the last second

 

[flicx]

Sounding more and more everyday instead of fast pass plus, they should call it fast pass bust!

 

[ArwenMarie]

How about they set up a whole bunch of MB readers throughout the park? You put your MB on it and it prints out your FPs for the day on small slips of paper. You would only need to do this once as long as you don't change your FPs. Then you hand the paper to the CM upon entering.

Then you would only be getting a Mickey read once a day instead of 6 (3x2)

 

[Danadanes]

How many "first Mickeys" are there in a given FP+ line?

If there is only 1, that should immediately increase to 3 or so. This will keep the line moving around "problems" and help alleviate bottleneck and big lines outside the queue. It would not overwhelm the interior "second Mickey" because everyone already had a green Mickey before they got to it.