A Costly Lesson

[bcla]

No airline would board us to fly back to Canada as we were not eligible to be re-admitted. We had other ID; it just simply wasn't an option - nobody would sell us a ticket. The Canadian Consulate in Barcelona was also not able to issue us "emergency" papers since we were not really in an emergency situation. The ascertained that we were safe and secure and able to follow the standard processes to replace the Passports; at no point did they give us permission to fly home until we had papers. (FTR we did have photocopies of our Passports - they were valid for absolutely nothing.)

It sounds like your situation was after you had already been admitted. This couple hadn't been admitted, and without a valid passport (and possibly a visa) they wouldn't be admitted into Greece. I'm not even sure how they would handle this couple leaving the secure area of customs. You were in a situation where you could hole up somewhere until either you either get a replacement or as you noted your passports were returned.

The UK let this couple back in, so they obviously handled it differently than in your case. I would think that they should be able to look up their passport records, but that's just my guess.

It kind of reminds me of the case of NBA player Enes Kanter, which is a Turkish citizen. Turkey actually cancelled his passport (it's complicated and kind of political, so I won't get into that aspect). However, he was detained in Romania because they found that Turkey had revoked his passport. He was allowed to walk around the international terminal but not leave. He was allowed to continue on to London even though he no longer had a "valid" passport. Not sure how he did it though. It might not have been confiscated in Romania.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...manian-airport-over-passport-issue/101917564/

 

[QueenIsabella]

Some may think that I'm being judgmental, but I'm going to double down on my previous comment. What those tourists did was stupid. What was even more stupid was expecting the airlines, hotel, etc. to give them financial compensation for their mistake.

My own parents made a similarly stupid passport mistake once. That mistake cost them about $4000. Story time!

My mom and dad had an epic & wonderful cruise planned. The cruise departed from Fort Lauderdale on Christmas Eve, would sail through the Caribbean, and eventually end in Chile. They lived on the west coast and flew to Florida the day before the cruise, spent the night in a local hotel, and went to board the cruise ship. Well, they went to get on board the cruise ship and before boarding, had to show their passports. Why? Because the cruise ended in Chile. Once in Chile, everyone would have to get off the ship.

That's when they discovered that my dad had brought his expired passport and had left his current passport in his dresser back home. He had a photocopy of the new passport, but that wasn't sufficient. They let my mom get on the boat, but not Dad. My mom was so upset that she almost threw up. Out of desperation, they called me because they had literally no idea what to do. They did not have a smart phone at the time...just a flip phone, so they couldn't look up airline prices and stuff like that. I was enjoying Christmas Eve with my family and my in-laws. I ended up spending about 3 hours on the phone with my parents helping them sort out the mess and come up with a plan B.

Plan B ended up being this:

• Mom got on board the cruise ship and was befriended & taken in by a very nice couple who felt really bad for her and my dad. She spent Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, and I think 2 days after that with them.
• I helped my dad get a very expensive last minute flight from Ft Lauderdale to San Francisco (they lived in the Bay Area) that left that very day on Christmas Eve.
• Then he took a taxi (this was before Uber & Lyft) from the SF airport to their house about an hour away.
• Then he went to get the passport and it was right where he had left it.
• Then he took a shower, had something to eat, etc., killed some time before he went back to the airport.
• Then took another taxi back to SFO to get on a flight to Miami. Pretty sure that he had to change planes either in Dallas or Atlanta first, though.
• Didn't arrive in Miami until Christmas Day.
• Then changed planes to get on a smaller plane to Aruba.
• He landed in Aruba. Took a taxi to the hotel I helped him book online (since he had no laptop and no smart phone with him...just the flip phone).
  
• I also helped him find one of THE last hotels on that island on Christmas Eve that had any rooms available for Christmas Day. The cruise ship would arrive 2 days after Christmas, so he had 2 nights to kill there.
• He spent ~ $900/night before tax each night for that hotel stay.
• Then boarded the cruise ship in Aruba 2 days after Christmas. They thoroughly enjoyed the rest of their cruise.

They were NOT owed compensation by the cruise line nor did they ask.
They were NOT owed compensation by the airline nor did they ask.
They were NOT owed compensation by any hotel nor did they ask.

My dad made a stupid mistake. But when it comes to immigration & travel, it's a big deal. They were lucky that I actually had my phone turned on that day and that I was answering it because otherwise, they really would have been screwed because they opted not to get any travel insurance when they booked the cruise.

My parents did ask the cruise ship folks if my dad could get on board anyway and agree to go straight to the American embassy in Chile once the cruise ended, but that request was denied because they would essentially get stuck in immigration limbo...because going to the embassy would have required them to be allowed to leave the immigration area in Chile. So no passport, no getting on the ship.

#1 rule in international travel - Keep your passport in a safe place with you at all times.
#2 rule for my dad - pay attention and don't rush and accidentally grab the wrong passport
#3 rule for my dad - don't wait until you're on the other side of the country before realizing that you grabbed the wrong passport

I feel your pain! A couple years ago, my DD(then)21 was leaving for a semester in Ecuador. One of the things they do down there is use passports for ID, so she was told to bring several copies of her passport to use. I take her to the local airport--she was flying to JFK, then to Ecuador from there. The guy at check-in asks if she has her passport, she assures him that she does.

You know what happens next--DD lands in JFK, no passport. She realizes that she left it on our copy machine. With several hours of effort and a $300 courier charge, I get the passport sent to her at JFK. She's able to change her flight to fly out the next day, after staying in a cheap hotel.

Luckily, this was the worst thing that happened to her on her semester abroad. And she still loves to travel. And she learned an important lesson. Unfortunately, it was a pricey little lesson for me, as well.

 

[CarolAnn856]

I've though a lot about this tendency people have and I've come to the conclusion it's kind of like whistling in the dark.

As long as you can convince yourself the person/people did something so reckless (or failed to do something prudent) that they had it coming; and you can convince yourself you'd never, ever do the same, you feel "protected". It turns out human beings are incredibly uncomfortable with the vagaries of life and the random nature of so much misfortune. Mind you, this technique only works for people who have never experienced anything similar. I hope very sincerely for the sake of the harsh-judging-no-grace-giving ones that they never find out differently the hard way.

I think most people are calling the action - putting the passports in the seat pocket - stupid. And you know what? It was. If I left my passport there, I would be calling my mistake stupid, or idiotic, too. People are so afraid to admit that we all do dumb things now and again. It isn't being judgemental. Maybe you prefer a term like human error or something, but I really don't see anything wrong with calling it stupid. It was.

You are trying to psychoanalyze other people's reactions, but I think rather that you are seeing too much of yourself in them and feeling defensive. Remember, though, that had the couple not expected compensation and made all of this public knowledge, then I think the public's reaction to them would be much gentler. Your reaction to the situation is what makes you different from them.

 

[Hikergirl]

I've though a lot about this tendency people have and I've come to the conclusion it's kind of like whistling in the dark.

As long as you can convince yourself the person/people did something so reckless (or failed to do something prudent) that they had it coming; and you can convince yourself you'd never, ever do the same, you feel "protected". It turns out human beings are incredibly uncomfortable with the vagaries of life and the random nature of so much misfortune. Mind you, this technique only works for people who have never experienced anything similar. I hope very sincerely for the sake of the harsh-judging-no-grace-giving ones that they never find out differently the hard way.

Or people just think it is incredibly stupid to put your passport in the seat pocket of an airplane instead of putting it in your bag. But if you want to play DIS psychologist be my guest

 

[NHdisneylover]

It WAS a stupid mistake. Understandable. The type of thing most people could do on an off day. Nothing to be raked over the coals for, but yes, stupid.

Not owning that it was a stupid mistake on their part and dealing with it as best they could, but instead demanding others take responsibilty for it IS something to be raked over the coals for. what spoiled brats.

Maybe, maybe not. If they were in the seat-back pocket it seems like they would have been found easily enough when they were looked for. As for ours, we assume we simply dropped them because we didn't have any other explanation but they may have been snatched out of my bag - I honestly don't know.

My husband an I fly in Europe a lot. It is extremely common to board an aircraft without having ever been asked for photo ID, only boarding pass. That is almost always the case when staying within the Schengen zone (which the UK is not part of) but has been the case several times even when departing the zone----the passports are only asked about when we land and go through immigration (when we fly OFF the continent we always have to show passport, but within europe seems to be aout 50/50 when going in and out of schengen and far less when staying in the zone).

Sooooo- it is certainly possible the couple is telling the full truth, they placed the passports in the seatback and then realized after getting off the plane--in which case it is likely they were accidentally thrown away (and, no, I do not think it is reasonable to expect airline employees or go digging through trash bags to look for your misplaced passport as someone suggested) and possible they were stolen (unlikely, as a PP explained, passports no longer have much value and tend to be ditched by thieves, even less value if instantly missed and reported as would b the case---and this would require a thief on the flight who wanted passports, happened to see theirs, etc---odds are very much against this).

It is also possible that the passports were left at home or misplaced before boarding the aircraft but the couple did not want to take responsibility for the mistake so said they were left in the seatback and threw a fit instead (given that they are not owning responsibility for leaving the passports in the seat back, I would say this is reasonably likely).

I'd say it is also within the realm of possibility that the passports were placed back in one of their bags, but they did not realize it/easily find them and thought they left them behind. If found hours or days later ,would the couple admit to having caused all that fuss for no reason? I know i have thought I did not have something with me, thought i had checked every part of a bag, only to discover the item sunk into the lowest part of a deep pocket, or stuck between other papers, or once having gone through a small hole and into the lining of a jacket, etc---now if I cannot find something where it should be, I take everything out and pull every item apart, etc and then turn the bag inside out to be sure. (this scenario is probably far more likely than the passports having been stolen by another deplaning passenger or crew---all knowing full well that the missing items would be noticed asap and those passports flagged as unusable by day's end)

 

[Ben E N]

Not to assume the worst, but how do we know that they actually put their passports in the pockets of the plane? And then if they did, why would somebody walk off with them? Those are both such weird things to do. When I fly, I avoid that pocket almost as much as possible. A more reasonable explanation, in my mind, is that they left their passports at home and realized it mid-flight. They then concocted this story to make it look so much more innocent, and to make the airline feel guilty about it, in order to extract some sort of compensation for their mistake.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Not to assume the worst, but how do we know that they actually put their passports in the pockets of the plane? And then if they did, why would somebody walk off with them? Those are both such weird things to do. When I fly, I avoid that pocket almost as much as possible. A more reasonable explanation, in my mind, is that they left their passports at home and realized it mid-flight. They then concocted this story to make it look so much more innocent, and to make the airline feel guilty about it, in order to extract some sort of compensation for their mistake.

I agree that the above is the most likely scenario.

 

[CarolAnn856]

Not to assume the worst, but how do we know that they actually put their passports in the pockets of the plane? And then if they did, why would somebody walk off with them? Those are both such weird things to do. When I fly, I avoid that pocket almost as much as possible. A more reasonable explanation, in my mind, is that they left their passports at home and realized it mid-flight. They then concocted this story to make it look so much more innocent, and to make the airline feel guilty about it, in order to extract some sort of compensation for their mistake.

They would not have been able to board in the first place without their passports.

 

[Ben E N]

They would not have been able to board in the first place without their passports.

Ok, I clearly have nothing better to do this morning. In response to this, I clicked on the original article, looked at what airline they flew, went to that airlines webpage, and looked at their international flight requirements. I admit I did all of this with only half effort, so I may have read things wrong, but it looks like they needed to fill out a form with information similar to their passport, called an API, in order to get on the flight.

https://www.tui.co.uk/destinations/info/faq/advance-passenger-information

I've already put way too much effort into this! Feel free to correct anything I misunderstood, and not that any of this matters anyway.

 

[NHdisneylover]

They would not have been able to board in the first place without their passports.

see my post, right above the one you quoted. Airport security and boarding pocedures within europe are not the same as within the USA, or to/from the US/Canada/etc --- i think you and others are making assumptions based on experiences flying in other regions which do not actually apply here.

 

[Hikergirl]

I don't think it is so far fetched that their passports may have been snatched up by someone, whether it be a passenger or even a crew member. There is a market for stolen passports.

 

[nkereina]

They probably accidentally got stuffed down between pages of the Sky magazine & in-flight directions that are always in those pockets. The person who looked probably didn't open up the Sky magazine, just pulled open the pocket & peered in.

And if the couple told the wrong seat numbers, the person could have been looking in the wrong row.

Well yeah, that probably is what the airline crew did. And I doubt the couple gave the wrong seat number - if they didn't recall it within two minutes of stepping off the plane, they could have referenced their boarding pass which was likely still on them. But I think the question is how hard the airline crew members actually looked. If they went to their row, peered in the pocket, and said "Nope not here!" and then went on about their way, then that's awful and horrible customer service. At least pull out the magazines, empty everything, check the floor and rows immediately around, etc. I still don't think the couple would be due any money for the airline crew's potential lack of effort, but that's likely the stance the couple is taking.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I don't think it is so far fetched that their passports may have been snatched up by someone, whether it be a passenger or even a crew member. There is a market for stolen passports.

could be---I still think it highly unlikely that someone with the connections to deal in stolen passports would see them and take them in those few minutes, but I might well be wrong.
My understanding is that the major value is in stolen blank passport books taken from processing centers before they are issued to anyone, and that a passport known to be stolen and reported as such is almost worthless (stolen from someone NOT travelling and not likely to miss it and report for months or years is far more valuable)--again why thieves routinely leave behind passports after stealing bags, as a PP reported and as DH and his coworkers had happen once-----bags were taken from 3 rental cars while they were all inside eating dinner. Next day, all of the passports, as well as the Chinese configured laptop and (luckily) DH's sunglasses which are a pricey but not well known in France (especially 6 years ago) brand, were found abandoned on the roadside along with similar contents from other groups. Thieves kept the "valuable" stuff---passports were not among the items kept.

 

[Hikergirl]

could be---I still think it highly unlikely that someone with the connections to deal in stolen passports would see them and take them in those few minutes, but I might well be wrong.
My understanding is that the major value is in stolen blank passport books taken from processing centers before they are issued to anyone, and that a passport known to be stolen and reported as such is almost worthless (stolen from someone NOT travelling and not likely to miss it and report for months or years is far more valuable)--again why thieves routinely leave behind passports after stealing bags, as a PP reported and as DH and his coworkers had happen once-----bags were taken from 3 rental cars while they were all inside eating dinner. Next day, all of the passports, as well as the Chinese configured laptop and (luckily) DH's sunglasses which are a pricey but not well known in France (especially 6 years ago) brand, were found abandoned on the roadside along with similar contents from other groups. Thieves kept the "valuable" stuff---passports were not among the items kept.

I just mean that dishonest people are everywhere and if they see something that has perceived value they might be inclined to take it. If someone doesn't have those connections, they may not be aware that there is more of a market for blank passports, they just saw some passport and thought what the heck.
It is probably more likely that the crew didn't do a thorough job looking for them, but at some point they would be found. The article stated the trip was in June, and it was printed July 3. If they were still in that pocket I would think that even in 4 days time somebody would have found them and the couple would have been notified.
I just think it is more likely that something happened to their passports (taken or still stuffed in that pocket) as opposed to them not having them at all and making up this story.

 

[soccerdad72]

I think the problem with this story is that sympathy tends to go out the window when you find out that they're demanding compensation for a mistake they made themselves.

Granted, this probably isn't a story if they hadn't gone to media looking for compensation - this sort of thing probably happens every single day with travelers.

 

[neverlandsky]

Ugh. Personal accountability and responsibility severely lacking in this case. Obviously they didn’t have trip insurance either. Certain trip insurance companies do covers lost passports and credit cards. Heck a ton of driver’s licenses are lost during the mandatory TSA check daily. Hence I alway take a picture of mine before traveling.

 

[DISNEYSQUIRRELS]

Um, welcome to the human race folks-we ALL make mistakes.
Years ago my BF & I spent a great week in Mexico. On our last day, we were waiting for our transportation back to the airport, they were running late & we were getting worried they forgot us.
I went up to the desk with the folder all of our travel stuff was in & the lady at the desk helped me out.
Our ride came, we got to the airport on time-except I left my folder on the desk back in the resort. Passports, exit form, etc.
It was stressful, it was the first time either of us had been out of the country. We missed our flight home.
Didn’t expect anything for free, we were just glad to be able get home.

 

[CarolAnn856]

see my post, right above the one you quoted. Airport security and boarding pocedures within europe are not the same as within the USA, or to/from the US/Canada/etc --- i think you and others are making assumptions based on experiences flying in other regions which do not actually apply here.

Just having done several flights within Europe involving the UK, no, I'm not.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Just having done several flights within Europe involving the UK, no, I'm not.

ok, sorry for thinking you were assuming based on US flights/Canadian flights. I still think many are---so far as I understand you are required to HAVE a passport for those flights, but, unlike some other places, airlines are not required to babysit you and make sure that you do before allowing you to board. Thus, I still think it is possible the passports were left at home or lost in the airport before boarding the plane. None of us will ever actually know though, I don't suppose. It's highly unlikely the couple would go running to the media to say they found the passports on the kitchen counter once home, or tucked into a pocket they did not realize their bag had, or whatnot.
I have flown from the UK to mainland Europe and not been asked to show a passport until landing. More than once.

 

[Hikergirl]

Everyone does make mistakes, but not everyone goes whining to the media about how nobody cares or compensated them for it. That is the difference here. They did something stupid, they need to own up to that and deal with the consequences.