A comment about moore's bad editing in F 9/11

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by jason
Read the first line in my last post.

Then why even discuss it? What was Moore's point in this "docuementary" other than to make Bush look bad? (he asked, rhetorically)

 

[IamTink]

It was a state of emergency for New York and yes while it would and has affected the whole of the US-- the initial plane crash was something the governor of New York and the Mayor of New York were responsible for responding to in a timely manner. Not the President of the US.


__________________
Tori

I don't agree. I think I've made it quite clear. It wasn't just a NY issue.

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by IamTink
I don't agree. I think I've made it quite clear. It wasn't just a NY issue.

We're talking 7 freaking minutes here!!! With this reaction, you'd think he camped out at this school overnight!

 

[poohandwendy]

This entire argument is crazy. We are talking about 7 flipping minutes. Dissecting 7 minutes of time that we all have to admit was nothing short of completely SHOCKING to every American...even those who actually witnessed it.

Posts here suggest that he had a flippant attitude about what was happening because he didn't __________, although noone can really say what he SHOULD or could have done...just that he was wrong in not doing something different than what he did do. All that can be done is speculate with much more info than he had at the time. How convenient.

So, in the light of an election year (and please don't patronize the masses by arguing this isn't ALL ABOUT THE ELECTION)...let's throw out some totally irrelevant mud...and truly, it IS completely irrelevant. We have NO IDEA what he was thinking during thsoe few minutes. And his actions were not, by any stretch of the imagination, irresponsible or neglectful of his duty as POTUS.

 

[IamTink]

Originally posted by kbeverina
Remember the kid who flew a plane into a building in Florida? Had Bush been delivered that news right before speaking to a classroom, would it be reasonable for him to go on and meet the class and wait for further info? Or would an immediate departure, at the expense of security, be the most appropriate reaction?

That would be a concern for Bush I would think. But, as I said earlier, it's not located in our most populated city in the US & one of the WORLDS economic capitols.

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by IamTink
That would be a concern for Bush I would think. But, as I said earlier, it's not located in our most populated city in the US & one of the WORLDS economic capitols.

So, if we're attacked by terrorists again and it's not in one of our most populated cities, the president should express concern, but not really worry too much about it really?

 

[poohandwendy]

Just noticed this from the OP:

Bush did not stop the class and ask for a slient prayer or lead a prayer

Imagine the UPROAR if Bush had asked for or led a PRAYER in a public school!!!!!

 

[IamTink]

Originally posted by Pugdog007
The fact that some think this propaganda is a documentary shows how gullible and naive many people are. And arguably... not too bright either.

Agreed!

 

[IamTink]

Originally posted by N.Bailey
So, if we're attacked by terrorists again and it's not in one of our most populated cities, the president should express concern, but not really worry too much about it really?

Maybe you should read that aloud so you can realize how ridiculous that sounds. Is that what you thought I said? It isn't. We happen to be speaking of the 911 that did indeed hit NYC, not whatever is in your imagination. You have to enlighten us to be able to respond.

 

[kbeverina]

Is that a yes or a no?

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by IamTink
Maybe you should read that aloud so you can realize how ridiculous that sounds. Is that what you thought I said? It isn't. We happen to be speaking of the 911 that did indeed hit NYC, not whatever is in your imagination. You have to enlighten us to be able to respond.

Oh believe me, I realized exactly how ridiculous it sounded even as I was typing it, but you're the one who said and I quote<b> "That would be a concern for Bush I would think. But, as I said earlier, it's not located in our most populated city in the US & one of the WORLDS economic capitols." </b> As if that had been a terrorist attack, it wasn't as deserving of the president's attention.

Just for the record, that statement was as ridiculous as you griping about 7 minutes!

Imagine the UPROAR if Bush had asked for or led a PRAYER in a public school!!!!!

NO KIDDING!!

 

[poohandwendy]

We happen to be speaking of the 911 that did indeed hit NYC, not whatever is in your imagination.

Gee, I didn't know Bush knew that morning that he was dealing with 'THE 9-11'...so, I guess he was supposed to use his imagination as well? Sheesh, even Miss Cleo didn't see this coming....

The whole point is that you are using the wisdom of 3 years after the largest terrorist attack (by FAR) on American soil as a gauge of what SHOULD have been done rather than the actual mindset of that morning....before anyone knew the intensity and gravity of the situation.

I would bet my eye teeth that he would be attacked for any response he would have had that morning...especially right now, before the election. You said he looked 'scared'...if he didn't, people would have been saying he wasn't shocked and KNEW it was coming..

Damned if he did, damned if he didn't. For the record, I think any president facing reelection would be dealing with the same thing, had they been in office during 9-11. I hate election years...they bring out the ridiculous and the irrelevant.

 

[kbeverina]

Originally posted by poohandwendy
Gee, I didn't know Bush knew that morning that he was dealing with 'THE 9-11'

To quote the great mhopkins...

*snerk*

 

[IamTink]

N.Bailey wrote:

Oh believe me, I realized exactly how ridiculous it sounded even as I was typing it, but you're the one who said and I quote "That would be a concern for Bush I would think. But, as I said earlier, it's not located in our most populated city in the US & one of the WORLDS economic capitols." As if that had been a terrorist attack, it wasn't as deserving of the president's attention.

I think I made it perfectly clear that if it had happened in another city it would certainly warrant his attention. Did you not read that in one of my previous posts?

poohandwendy wrote:

Gee, I didn't know Bush knew that morning that he was dealing with 'THE 9-11'...so, I guess he was supposed to use his imagination as well? Sheesh, even Miss Cleo didn't see this coming....

Nobody knew that morning they were dealing w/911. As a CIC he should have been in immediate contact w/Rumsfeld, our Secretary of Defense, the speaker of the house, the vice-president. It's his job and he simply should have known enough to do something.

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by shortbun
And because if you know anything about air space, you know
that an aircraft flying that low in NYC and hitting the WTC is
probably NOT and accident. I've already said this but as a travel
agency, everyone in my office was freaked out after the first
plane hit. We knew it was not likely an accident and we were
just dumb travel agents.
Certainly, the president and his staff should have stopped
everything and waited to talk to ATC and the FAA before carrying
on as normal. But they didn't and that makes them way dumber
than me and there is no excuse for that! None!
All you guys supporting Bush, remember to vote on November 3rd!!!

Just curious, do you work with school children, or are you a travel agent?

 

[kbeverina]

Originally posted by IamTink
As a CIC he should have been in immediate contact w/Rumsfeld, our Secretary of Defense, the speaker of the house, the vice-president. It's his job and he simply should have known enough to do something.

According to the timeline cited by charlie nj on page 1 of this post, he was on the phone with Cheney at 9:12am as he left.

You think he gets out his phone book and calls people himself? It would take 7 minutes to arrange a secure line with any of the people you mention above. I imagine his staff was setting up these calls between 9:05am when he was told and 9:12am when he left.

I don't know why you think Bush "messed up badly" to calmly cut his time short with the kids while the Secret Service secured the early exit and his staff set up secure communications between 9:05am and 9:12am.

He felt it was important to convey this attitude to the nation. That's why he did what he did and chose not to abruptly end and walk out immediately. He did this on purpose and he did it for a reason. You may think that this had no value, but he felt it was important at the time and an important use of his time while his staff worked behind the scenes preparing for his exit.

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by IamTink
No, he should not have gone into the classroom at all. Our most populous city in the country had a Twin Tower hit by a PLANE, and it would have been a really good idea if he waited to see what was going on before reading to the kiddos. When the first plane hit the first Twin Tower, the news was all over it & we were riveted to our TV's as the flashes of the bombing coming to mind that did occur during Clintons' watch. When the second plane hit, I said to my husband,"We're being attacked."

No, I didn't want him to excuse himself, since I now know that he already knew the first tower was hit. He shouldn't have even gone into the classroom in the first place.

I think many people think that he was already in the classroom reading to the children, as I did, but he had already been notified.

As far as the bombing happening on Clinton's watch, I can't answer everyone's questions. I'm not an expert. I came here to simply give my opinion regarding Michael Moore. But, Clinton did give some info regarding that in an interview that was aired this past week. I don't recall the particulars. He did what I felt was appropriate for the information he had at that time. Also, we don't & shouldn't have the information readily available to the president. We don't know all the information he's carrying around in his head. But, seven minutes is alot of wasted time in an emergency. Yes, I feel that it was a state of emergency as soon as the first plane hit.

For someone who freely admits, they had no clue of anything, including what happened on Clinton's watch, you really seem to be able to tell everyone else how they should have acted! Why weren't you and everyone else who is whining on this thread not so PO'd about the president sitting in the classroom for the past 2 1/2 years? You needed Michael Moore to tell you how to feel, that's why! Cause I certainly NEVER read or heard one person complain about this in the almost 3 years since this tragedy happened. If you didn't know about it, then you've been living in a box, now all of the sudden, you're the expert here? Gimmie a break!

 

[shortbun]

Originally posted by N.Bailey
Just curious, do you work with school children, or are you a travel agent?

Os September 11th, I had been a travel agent for 29 years
and still was. It took about 2 minutes for my whole office
of 30 + people to gather in the conference room after the boss
circulated the news that the first plane had hit. We knew it
was something very serious. By the time the 2nd plane hit, we
had discussed at attack and debated attack versus accident-
while we watched the 2nd plane hit, someone said " Well, there
goes the accident theory."
I ran to my office and called my friend who was in charge of getting my DS home in an emergency - one so severe that not
all parents would have time to get to the school. We have such
a plan in effect. I told her what had happened and that I would
meet her at her house as planned, if necessary She works at DS's school. I knewthe USA had been attacked and had plans made for my family prior to the POTUS leaving the classroomin Florida.
As of May 2002, I left my job as a travel agent. The industry changed incredibly after 9/11/01. I decided that life was too short for my DS to spend summers and some of his school breaks in childcare and started looking for a job that co-ordinated with
his schedule. By December, I had a job training to drive a school bus and that is what I'm doing now. Hope that clears up your
questions. The events of 9/11/01 provoked me to change my priorities in life. It was a wake up call for many. I make less money now but spend loads more time with my son.
Seven minutes IS a short time in many perspectives. When it is
the amount of time the POTUS spends spaced out after learning
the country is under attack, it seems an eternity. I certainly didn't
sit around wondering what to do next. I took action immediately.
Hope I've answered your questions.

 

[shortbun]

"Did you all who saw the film catch that? Was it clear to you that he was not talking about al Qaeda shortly after 9/11 in that clip?"


It was clear to me that his attitude was one of lightheartedness
and flippancy regarding whatever his topic. Throughout the film,
he displayed a cavalier disregard for serious issues being more
concerned about his "drive" or "swing", "did somebody say nice
shot?" He's just a player. I don't know if it's because he knows
someone else is actually making decisions for him or because he
just can't focus sometimes. His mugging and laughter prior to
announcing he had just sent us to war was insulting. It showed
total disregard for what he had just done and was about to say.
Since we have seen no such footage of other presidents when they were about to convey such serious information, should I assume that they all take this approach? Is this just a game to them? I pray to God not.

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by shortbun
Os September 11th, I had been a travel agent for 29 years
and still was. It took about 2 minutes for my whole office
of 30 + people to gather in the conference room after the boss
circulated the news that the first plane had hit. We knew it
was something very serious. By the time the 2nd plane hit, we
had discussed at attack and debated attack versus accident-
while we watched the 2nd plane hit, someone said " Well, there
goes the accident theory."
I ran to my office and called my friend who was in charge of getting my DS home in an emergency - one so severe that not
all parents would have time to get to the school. We have such
a plan in effect. I told her what had happened and that I would
meet her at her house as planned, if necessary She works at DS's school. I knewthe USA had been attacked and had plans made for my family prior to the POTUS leaving the classroomin Florida.
As of May 2002, I left my job as a travel agent. The industry changed incredibly after 9/11/01. I decided that life was too short for my DS to spend summers and some of his school breaks in childcare and started looking for a job that co-ordinated with
his schedule. By December, I had a job training to drive a school bus and that is what I'm doing now. Hope that clears up your
questions. The events of 9/11/01 provoked me to change my priorities in life. It was a wake up call for many. I make less money now but spend loads more time with my son.
Seven minutes IS a short time in many perspectives. When it is
the amount of time the POTUS spends spaced out after learning
the country is under attack, it seems an eternity. I certainly didn't
sit around wondering what to do next. I took action immediately.
Hope I've answered your questions.

I am sorry in a way that you lost your job due to 9/11, but I'm glad you are able to spend more time with your family. I can certainly understand the pay loss issue. I too gave my job up to spend time with my family, among other things.

Whatcha still up for at this time of the day? My son had a friend spend the night. My son is out like a light and has been for hours, but his buddy is watching LOTR and refuses to fall asleep!