A comment about moore's bad editing in F 9/11

[Truth]

There is a film that was shot the morning of Sept.11 at Booker elementary school. The film is uncut unedited from the beginning of bush entering the classroom to listen to the children read to a point seven minutes after bush was told that america was under attack and at war. moore reduces this event to a minute or two at most in the film F911 and in doing so in the opinion of this poster did a serious disservice to F/911.

The person that benefits most from moores editing is the guy that was supposed to be the CIC of the United States of America and if moore is to be blamed for bad editing then it's for his unwillingness to let the people in the theatres sit there for those seven minutes thinking what they would have done had they been in his place. Instead he edited it into a series of short clips with a clock on the screen appearing agsin and again every few seconds but the clock had advanced a full 30 seconds each time. The entire sequence seemed to go by in less than a minute. A chance to really drive home what bush's first reaction was that day in stark contrast to the rest of the nation was left out.

Seven minutes

and he just sat there

Seven minutes

and he just picked up a book about a goat and looked at it

Seven minutes

after he was told America was at war and under attack

Seven minutes

when ICBMs take only 15 minutes to arrive.

Seven minutes

when it could have been the difference between the pentagon being hit or saved

Seven minutes

after which if moore had let the film run it would have shown bush calmy getting up and talking to the children

after that he posed for several pictures with the Teacher

after that the CIC told the press he had nothing to say

this was because that is what was written on a clipboard and shown to him from across the room.

seven minutes .......

moore was more than generous to the person that should have and could have but did not do
anything to find out what was going on or see if
any action needed his attention

no rush after all

it wasn't like America was under attack or at war.

seven minutes .... think about it

here do an experiment

assume you are the president and you know a plane has hit the world trade tower

get a timer and set it for seven minutes

now sit in a chair and assume you have just been told another plane has hit the other World Trade Tower and America is under attack and that America is at War.

don't look at the timer

close your eyes and think of what you would do or should do if you are the president and have the info you have just been told.

How long could you sit there and do nothing ?

What would you do ?

Are you a religious person ?

Would you pray ?

Many people in their homes that day when the second plane hit, stopped and prayed.

Bush did not stop the class and ask for a slient prayer or lead a prayer

he just sat there for seven minutes

 

[dmadman43]

So, you are assuming everyone knew exactly what we were dealing with. 20/20 hindsight is such a wonderful thing. Everyone gets to be right.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I think the President could've whipped up a big frenzy in 7 minutes! Shame on him for remaining calm and not exciting those school children.

 

[Nancy]

I have never posted my feelings on this topic before. But I am getting tired of people bashing Bush for his sreaction and staying in the room that day.

First I have to say that I think Bush did the right thing that day. If my small child was in that class and he reacted by jumping up out of his chair and announcing what happened those kids would have been scared. Do you think it was easy for the man to sit there and pretend everything was fine????

My daughter spent a whole day in her school NOT knowing what happened. The school chose NOT to tell the elementary school anything about it. They wanted the kids to be home in a familiar surrounding with parents when they were told (if they were told at all) and with young children that is how it should have been. How do you know if he was just sitting there. Maybe he was praying. You or I will never know and neither will MM...we were not inside GB's head that day.

If you small child was sitting in the room and the President reacted and said "let's pray, we were just attacked and are at war" How ould you have felt? My DD would have been crying and hysterical....she would have wanted me. Bush did the right thing. No matter what MM would have us believe.


I am glad Bush stayed there and pretended nothing was wrong. Do you really think he could have stopped the plane from hitting the Pentagon? I don't! Of course they could have shot the plane down...over crowded cities and killed all people on board. I know everyone on board died, but not by our own military.

I was home watching on TV. I thought at first it was a terrible accident. when #2 hit I thought we had a case of an air traffic controller who flipped. It took me a least 5 minutes or longer to realize that I just saw 2 planes flown in on purpose. I also spent 3-4 hours in hell not knowing where some of my families members were. NY State had offices in that building ...my BIl and his wife both worked there....BIL had moved his office, but I wasn't sure about SIL. Luckily she was not at work that day. My husbands cousin was in #7. He walked an old man out of his office before the towers fell. After all this I still feel what Bush did that day was appropriate.

 

[two4ruff]

Nancy-
Thanks for saying what I wanted to say in a much calmer way!

 

[Robinrs]

I would've been angrier if he had freaked out. I've had to control my emotions with my child during times of crisis like you would never believe and it's not easy. I don't think anyone can guess how they would react during something like this. I just wish he had looked a little less goofy and given Michael Moore less of an opportunity to ridicule him.

I have to believe that someone should've moved him out of the building with children in it. If he couldn't make the move someone in the SS should've realized he was a target. I was working for a news station at the very minutes he was there and the only concern at the moment was "where is the President, they must be after him next!" Again, in hindsight, I cannot imagine what anyone had on their minds.

 

[richiebaseball]

9/11: Bush didn't react to attack for minutes, report says
Bloomberg News


WASHINGTON — President George W. Bush didn't react for five to seven minutes after learning a second aircraft had hit New York's World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001, because he was trying to "project strength and calm," a national commission investigating the attacks said.
At 9:05 a.m. on that day, Bush was in a second-grade classroom at the Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida, for an event designed to prod Congress to pass his education proposals. Bush had been told that one plane, possibly a commercial jet, had hit the South Tower 19 minutes earlier.
In a moment captured on video and replayed, White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card whispered in Bush's ear, saying, "A second plane hit the second tower. America is under attack." Bush's face froze, his lips tight.
"The president told us his instinct was to project calm, not to have the country see an excited reaction at a moment of crisis," the Sept. 11 commission said in a staff statement issued in Washington today at the panel's last public hearing before it issues a final report next month.
The U.S. government and its military, on perpetual alert for attacks from overseas, weren't trained or prepared to respond to the suicide hijackings in domestic airspace, the commission said in a report giving the timeline of the attacks and the responses of the Federal Aviation Administration and the North American Aerospace Defense Command.
At 8:55 a.m. on Sept. 11, nine minutes after the first airliner slammed into the trade center, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice told Bush that a plane, either a multiengine craft or a commercial jet, had struck the center.
"That's all we know right now, Mr. President," Rice said on a secure telephone from Washington, according to the commission report. The FAA and NORAD already knew the first plane had been hijacked and a second was missing, the panel said.
Reporters traveling with Bush's motorcade to the school overheard a voice on a Secret Service agent's radio saying Rice had an urgent call for the president and would be waiting on a secure line that White House staff had set up inside the school.
Behind a blue-curtained partition next to the classroom where Bush would speak to second-graders, the White House had set up a work area with secure telephone lines.
Reporters peered around that partition into the work area and saw White House Communications Director Dan Bartlett on the telephone, his face pale. What he was saying was inaudible.
Behind Bartlett, with his back to reporters, Bush was on a telephone for several minutes with Card standing next to him. After the call, Bush conferred briefly with Card before nodding to White House aides to go ahead and begin the school event.
For the next five to seven minutes Bush went through the prearranged event, greeting students, smiling and asking them about their reading habits. He sat on a small chair, his knees pulled up in front of his chest, looking somewhat distracted.
"Bush made the right decision in remaining calm, in not rushing out of the classroom," said Lee Hamilton, vice chairman of the Sept. 11 commission and a former Democratic congressman from Indiana.
At one point the president got up to tousle the hair of a student and leaned up against the edge of a table. He nodded as the students went through their reading exercises, saying, "That's good, that's good."
Card came forward and whispered in Bush's ear delivering his message. "I told the president, 'The second tower has been hit. America is under attack,"' Card told reporters later.
"When they learned a second plane had struck the World Trade Center, nearly everyone in the White House told us they immediately knew it was not an accident," the commission staff reported.
Bush hurried to finish the school event, thanking the students for the time and encouraging them to keep working. He made no mention of the education bill or Congress's need to pass it. Instead he stepped behind the blue partition to talk with Card and others.
Reporters were prevented from looking behind the partition by White House advance staff. The commission report says the president's traveling staff focused on organizing his return to Washington.
The president's motorcade left the school at about 9:35 a.m. and arrived at the airport between 9:42 and 9:45 a.m.
On Air Force One at about 9:45 a.m., Bush told Vice President Dick Cheney by telephone, "Sounds like we have a minor war going on here, I heard about the Pentagon. We're at war. Somebody's going to pay," the report says, citing notes of the call.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595071129,00.html

 

[charlie,nj]

Originally posted by Truth
Seven minutes
after he was told America was at war and under attack
seven minutes .......
no rush after all
it wasn't like America was under attack or at war.
get a timer and set it for seven minutes
now sit in a chair and assume you have just been told another plane has hit the other World Trade Tower and America is under attack and that America is at War.
don't look at the timer
Many people in their homes that day when the second plane hit, stopped and prayed.
he just sat there for seven minutes

****

I find it amazing that MM knew we at war in those seven minutes because like I said before people were going about their business in the NYC area. I was standing on the NJ Turnpike about a mile away from the WTC and watched as the second plane hit..I prayed for the injured got in my car and went to work. Yes we were praying for the injured..but did we think it was a full scale attack..I don't think so.

This is what I posted on the other thread..


at 9:29 am First reports of casualties indicate that at least 6 (six) people are dead and 1000 injured....not 1000's killed.

New York State didn’t declare a state of emergency until after the second tower fell.

My sons who were in school right across the river from the WTC in NJ ..one had regular 3 pm dismissal..and the another had early dismissal at 12:30pm. Like I said a lot of people in the area didn't think it was an all out attack on the US.

**********

Here are a few more times from my copy of LIFE magazine:

6:00 am: President Bush awakes at the Colony, a resort in Longboat Key, Fla.

8:47 am: First plane hits tower #1

9:00 am: Bush arrives at a Sarasota, Fla, school to promote his education program. White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card tells him that a plane has crashed into the WTC.

9:02 am: the second plane crashes into the south tower.


9:05 am: The President is sitting in with a second-grade class when Card whispers to him that yet another airplane has stuck the twin Towers.

9:12 am: Bush leaves the school and is in touch with NYC officials as well as VP Dick Cheney at the WH.

9:29 am: First reports of casualties indicate that at least 6 (six) people are dead and 1000 injured.

9:30 am: with students and teachers looking on, Bush, having been briefed by National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, delivers his first official remarks on the catastrophe: ‘We have had a national tragedy. Two airplanes have crashed into the WTC in an apparent terrorist attack on our country.” He orders “a full-scale investigation to hunt down and to find those folks who committed these acts” and says he will immediately return to Washington.

9:41 am: plane crashes into the Pentagon.

9:45 am:: WH is evacuated.

9:48 am: US Capitol is evacuated…other federal DC buildings are closed.

9:50 am: the south tower of the WTC collapses.

9:55 am: Bush hastily departs on an evasive route for Barksdale Air Force Base, outside Shreveport, La.

10:00 am: Aboard Air Force One en route to La, Bush calls VP Cheney and puts America’s military on high-alert status. The President shifts through updates from his staff.

10:00 am: plane crashes in Shanksville, Pa.


10:28 am: the north tower of the WTC collapse.

10:30 am: NY Governor declares state of emergency.

10:41 am: The president is aboard Air Force One, which is headed toward Jacksonville to join up with jets providing air cover. On the phone from a protected area of the WH, VP Cheney presses Bush not to return quickly to DC.

10:46 am: US Secretary of State Powell cuts short his trip to Latin America to return to the USA.

1:15 pm: Bush departs for Air Force One in a camouflaged Humvee. While en route to Offutt Air Force Base near Omaha, he talks to Cheney again and schedules a 4 pm meeting of his national security staff. He also talks to Giuliani and Pataki “I know your heart is broken and your city is strained, and anything we can do, let me know” Bush says.

1:27 pm: a state of emergency is declared in Washington, DC.

2:50 pm: Bush arrives at Offutt Air Force base in Nebraska, where he descends into a cinderblock bunker. There he teleconferences with the eight-member National Security Council.

4:36 pm: Bush leaves Nebraska aboard Air Force One to return to Washington. While in the air he renews his telephone link with Rice and Cheney.

6:54 pm: Bush arrives at the WH.

8:30 pm: OUR president speaks to the nation on television.

8:35 pm: Bush attends a security meeting.

 

[flaps]

"How long could you sit there and do nothing ?"

I don't know.

"What would you do ?"

I don't know.

"Are you a religious person ?"

I'm a Christian.

"Would you pray ?"

I don't know.



When I'm the President visiting a classroom of children on September 11 and receive word of the attacks that morning, you won't need to ask and I won't need to speculate about what I would or wouldn't do. We'd both know, then. And not seven minutes - not even seven seconds - sooner.

 

[cynsaun]

Originally posted by two4ruff
Nancy-
Thanks for saying what I wanted to say in a much calmer way!

I totally agree. Well said, Nancy!

 

[binny]

well said Nancy, flaps and Charlie. Thank you.

 

[Nancy]

Thanks!

Truth...what would you have done? And has Michael Moore ever said what he would have done?

 

[Truth]

Originally posted by Nancy
Thanks!

Truth...what would you have done? And has Michael Moore ever said what he would have done?

Well finally woke some people up, it's about time.
Sorry for not getting back sonner.

Perhaps a short list of a few of the things that were known by bush that morning before any of the planes hit might have helped.

It's not so much what anyone would have done if they assume they were the president at the moment Card told him "America is under attack".

It's what would anyone have done that had all the information that bush had as president that morning, if they had been president.

There were many reports and warnings from many sources that had warned of an attack on America.

The August Presidential briefing warned of a possible attack and mentioned Bin Laden, and New York City and the World trade center.

There is quite a bit more but with the apparent limited awareness people here seem to have of the information the president was in possession of that morning before the first plane hit maybe some of you are going to have a harder time than others thinking what you might have done differently. Afterall had you had all the information bush had in the months before the attacks you might have taken actions that would have prevented it altogether, the 9/11 commission is basically saying it is possible that it could have been prevented. But back to the point about the children, there are a few more things that bush could have been done short causing an uproar and scareing the children, but maybe you are correct, maybe it is all or nothing with bush, he certainly was not interested in anything less than war to deal with Iraq.

 

[AirForceRocks]

The August Presidential briefing warned of a possible attack and mentioned Bin Laden, and New Yory City and the World trade center.

Perhaps you should change your name to Half-Truth. Here is the quote from the 6 Aug 2001 PDB that mentioned the WTC:

Clandestine, foreign government, and media reports indicate bin Laden since 1997 has wanted to conduct terrorist attacks in the US. Bin Laden implied in U.S. television interviews in 1997 and 1998 that his followers would follow the example of World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef and "bring the fighting to America."

Yes, that is a clear indication that the President knew there was going to be an attack on the WTC.

 

[Rutt and Tuke]

I haven't read all of the long posts on this thread, but I did see Fahrenheit 9/11 and I felt Moore's editing of that portion was very effective.

Some people know how to edit; others don't.

I don't think Pres. Bush should have freaked out, but I do think that after maybe 2 minutes, he should have excused himself and said there was something he had to help his staff with or something innocuous like that.

JMO

 

[GaryAdams]

wow perhaps if clinton had done some thing the FIRST time the WTC was attacked we wouldnt be worrying about the 2nd time?

truth go back to talking about yourself in the third person,its alot more fun to laugh at your posts then.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by GaryAdams
wow perhaps if clinton had done some thing the FIRST time the WTC was attacked we wouldnt be worrying about the 2nd time?

truth go back to talking about yourself in the third person,its alot more fun to laugh at your posts then.

Well atleast Clinton didn't sit there, shellshocked, for seven minutes!

Atleast Truth is giving us something interesting to think about for a change! *sigh*

 

[ToriLammy]

Half truths and innuendo is hardly something interesting to think about IMHO.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by minniepumpernickel
Well atleast Clinton didn't sit there, shellshocked, for seven minutes!

Hmm, I wasn't aware that there was video out there of what President Clinton's reaction was when he was initially told of the 1993 WTC bombing.

And frankly, I really don't care what President Clinton or President Bush did in the first few minutes after being told. What they did subsequently, to try to prevent it from happening again is much more important to me.

So what exactly did President Clinton do in that regard?

 

[GaryAdams]

Well atleast Clinton didn't sit there, shellshocked, for seven minutes!

thats right, clinton did nothing!!


its so funny the short term memory people have when it comes to the bomb in the parking garage of the WTC,
oh thats right, it happened under clintons watch, so there is nothing that should have been done after that.