A comment about moore's bad editing in F 9/11

[shortbun]

And because if you know anything about air space, you know
that an aircraft flying that low in NYC and hitting the WTC is
probably NOT and accident. I've already said this but as a travel
agency, everyone in my office was freaked out after the first
plane hit. We knew it was not likely an accident and we were
just dumb travel agents.
Certainly, the president and his staff should have stopped
everything and waited to talk to ATC and the FAA before carrying
on as normal. But they didn't and that makes them way dumber
than me and there is no excuse for that! None!
All you guys supporting Bush, remember to vote on November 3rd!!!

 

[Rutt and Tuke]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
Why in the world not? They had no idea at the time of the first plane hitting that it was anything more than a horrible accident.

I agree whole heartedly even after seeing Fahrenheit 9/11.

 

[jennyanydots]

Maybe I think a little differently that most people here.

My first thought that day was "It's an accident...didn't a plane hit the Empire State Building many years ago?"

But even before the second plane hit, the thought of terrorism crossed my mind. Maybe it's because I was thinking about a similar attack in February 1993. When the first WTC attack occurred 11 years ago, I watched the whole thing live, not on TV, from the relative safety of New Jersey. Or maybe Pam Am flight 103 was on my mind, or that TWA flight that was supposedly shot down off the coast of Long Island. Or all those planes hijacked to Cuba in the 1970's, or the raid on Entebbe, or the Achille Lauro.

You know, a friend of mine has family living in Jerusalem. the Israelis "knew" it was terrorism shortly after the first plane hit. they have lots of experience with it, after all.

And the thought that it might be terrorism didn't even cross the President's mind?

 

[palmtreegirl]

Originally posted by shortbun
And because if you know anything about air space, you know
that an aircraft flying that low in NYC and hitting the WTC is
probably NOT and accident. I've already said this but as a travel
agency, everyone in my office was freaked out after the first
plane hit. We knew it was not likely an accident and we were
just dumb travel agents.
Certainly, the president and his staff should have stopped
everything and waited to talk to ATC and the FAA before carrying
on as normal. But they didn't and that makes them way dumber
than me and there is no excuse for that! None!
All you guys supporting Bush, remember to vote on November 3rd!!!

Well I think Bush did a fine job on 9/11 and I'm planning on voting for Kerry.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by shortbun
And because if you know anything about air space, you know
that an aircraft flying that low in NYC and hitting the WTC is
probably NOT and accident.

...

All you guys supporting Bush, remember to vote on November 3rd!!!

Accidents occur because things that are out of the ordinary and unexpected happen.

22 years ago, a plane taking off from National Airport slammed into the 14th Street Bridge. Anyone that knows anything about airspace knows that an airplane isn't supposed to fly that low over the Potomac River. That doesn't mean that it should have automatically been assumed to be a terrorist act.

And yes, I'm absolutely voting for President Bush on November 3rd. As I said before, I don't care a whit about what he did in the classroom that morning, I care about what he did in the following months, when he sent troops into Afghanistan to destory the terrorist training camps.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by jennyanydots


You know, a friend of mine has family living in Jerusalem. the Israelis "knew" it was terrorism shortly after the first plane hit. they have lots of experience with it, after all.

And the thought that it might be terrorism didn't even cross the President's mind?

You've made the point as to why the President didn't immediately think of terrorism - nothing like that had happened here before, whereas in Israel, they've been dealing with terrorists for decades.

 

[IamTink]

Originally posted by Nancy
Iamtink...my same question to you...when the first plane hit did you immediately know that we were under attack?

Why would the President know that. Should he have not gone into the room because he was thinking it was an accident?

Even after the second plane hit, it took me a while to realize what was going on.

So he went in and did what he went there to do. While he's talking to the second grade kids...a whole 6-7 years old...he gets notified of the second plane and you wanted him to say excuse me I have to leave now, something came up????

No, he should not have gone into the classroom at all. Our most populous city in the country had a Twin Tower hit by a PLANE, and it would have been a really good idea if he waited to see what was going on before reading to the kiddos. When the first plane hit the first Twin Tower, the news was all over it & we were riveted to our TV's as the flashes of the bombing coming to mind that did occur during Clintons' watch. When the second plane hit, I said to my husband,"We're being attacked."

No, I didn't want him to excuse himself, since I now know that he already knew the first tower was hit. He shouldn't have even gone into the classroom in the first place.

I think many people think that he was already in the classroom reading to the children, as I did, but he had already been notified.

As far as the bombing happening on Clinton's watch, I can't answer everyone's questions. I'm not an expert. I came here to simply give my opinion regarding Michael Moore. But, Clinton did give some info regarding that in an interview that was aired this past week. I don't recall the particulars. He did what I felt was appropriate for the information he had at that time. Also, we don't & shouldn't have the information readily available to the president. We don't know all the information he's carrying around in his head. But, seven minutes is alot of wasted time in an emergency. Yes, I feel that it was a state of emergency as soon as the first plane hit.

 

[jason]

Originally posted by Nancy
...when the first plane hit did you immediately know that we were under attack?
Why would the President know that.

Why would the president know that? Maybe the memo that was given to him just a moth erlier with the keywords: Bin Laden, Airplanes, and WTC would be a clue. Any person with any kind of logic could put two and two together and see this was no accident. Although this is W were talking about.

 

[Pugdog007]

All you guys supporting Bush, remember to vote on November 3rd

Uh don't worry... we will.



Hmm guess it doesn't let you really "quote" someone on your ignore list. I know, I know... don't read it. It was too tempting.

 

[ThreeCircles]

Originally posted by jason
Why would the president know that? Maybe the memo that was given to him just a moth erlier with the keywords: Bin Laden, Airplanes, and WTC would be a clue. Any person with any kind of logic could put two and two together and see this was no accident. Although this is W were talking about.

You mean the memo he didn't read?

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by jason
Why would the president know that? Maybe the memo that was given to him just a moth erlier with the keywords: Bin Laden, Airplanes, and WTC would be a clue. Any person with any kind of logic could put two and two together and see this was no accident. Although this is W were talking about.

I would bet that you haven't even read the PDB to which you are referring. WTC? Yeah, it mentioned WTC as in "WTC bomber Ramzi Yusef". Yep, that's it, right there in black and white - all the knowledge we needed to stop 9/11.

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by IamTink
Even worse than I originally thought. How could he? Why did he go into the classroom at all?? Nobody expects him to have jumped up, scared the kiddos, & scooted. He never should have been in the room in the first place!

With greater & greater amounts of information coming out, it is so clearly apparent as the nose on anyone's face that this man is not CIC material.

Someone who had seen F911, mentioned that Michael Moore (a publicity hound himself), cut this important time frame of Bush on film doing nothing. I agree w/whoever wrote that. That was critical and just sitting through seven minutes & thinking of what he should have been doing besides reading Dick & Jane to school kids, boggles the mind.

Thanks Truth, for bringing it to my attention.

Like I said, Monday Morning quarterbacking is a great game to play, isn't it? Everyone gets to be right because the already know what was unknown at the time.

So, is a President supposed to excuse himself from his current engagements every time there is a plane crash? What did Clinton do after Flight 800? Nothing, probably. And I wouldn't have expected him to do anything. Not his problem. Plane flies into WTC. Gee.. that's never happened before. Guess we must be under attack. Quick, go to DefCon 5. Now, what if all it had been was a horrible accident. Would you have faulted the President for over reacting? Of course you would have.

 

[ThreeCircles]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
Yep, that's it, right there in black and white - all the knowledge we needed to stop 9/11.

I don't think that anyone suggested that we could have stoped 9/11.

 

[shortbun]

Originally posted by Pugdog007
All you guys supporting Bush, remember to vote on November 3rd

Uh don't worry... we will.



Hmm guess it doesn't let you really "quote" someone on your ignore list. I know, I know... don't read it. It was too tempting.

Good, now mark that date on your calendar! BTW, I'm
honored.

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by jason
Why would the president know that? Maybe the memo that was given to him just a moth erlier with the keywords: Bin Laden, Airplanes, and WTC would be a clue. Any person with any kind of logic could put two and two together and see this was no accident. Although this is W were talking about.

And maybe the 3 chances the previous administration had to have bin Laden delivered to them on a platter and they did nothing also would have prevented this. Man, the 20/20 hindsight game is fun, isn't it?

 

[Rutt and Tuke]

Originally posted by Pugdog007
All you guys supporting Bush, remember to vote on November 3rd

Uh don't worry... we will.



Hmm guess it doesn't let you really "quote" someone on your ignore list. I know, I know... don't read it. It was too tempting.

I am seriously thinking of putting on my ignore list anyone who feels the need to mention that they are ignoring others.

Oh, and I'll remember to vote on November 3, but not for Bush.

Oh and I just read dmadman's response above mine and I was about to post the same sort of thing about how Bush would never end up speaking again if he changed plans everytime he was notified of some event.

Sure, disappoint the children when you don't even have the facts yets. I think he made the right choice going in the classroom.

ETA that it is dmadman's post before his last I'm referring to. Things are going fast here.

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by ThreeCircles
I don't think that anyone suggested that we could have stoped 9/11.

Given that, upon hearing of first WTC plane crash Bush should have done....what, then?

 

[IamTink]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
And if this had been an accident, as was first suspected, what would have been the point of him not going into the room? It wouldn't have been something that he would have been handling, it wouldn't have been something that he would or could have done anything about. Had it been an accident, would it have been tragic? Of course. Would it have been something that would merit immediate Presidential intervention? Of course not.



As I've explained above, to what end?

I think there is a whole lot of Monday morning armchair quarterbacking going on about the President going into the classroom, and to me, it seems silly.

Had the first plane turned out to be an accident, no one would have questioned for a second why the President went into the classroom. But since it wasn't, people seem to expect him to have had ESP about what was going on.

Even if it were an "accident" as first thought, don't you think that our CIC should have been learning more about an "accident" in our most populous city instead of not learning more at the time?

I think think the President going into the classroom after the first plane would have been quetioned even if it had turned out to be an accident because of the location. It's not just our most populous city, it's one of the economical powers in the world. There's alot at stake there. Bush messed up, badly.

People that are in favor of Bush are also doing the Monday morning quarterback thing, only in his favor, but it's the same thing.

 

[dmadman43]

But, seven minutes is alot of wasted time in an emergency. Yes, I feel that it was a state of emergency as soon as the first plane hit.

The reason you think that is because of what you know today, I'm pretty sure. Should there have been a state of emergency after Flight 800 blew up? Should there have been a state of emergency after the small plane flew into the side of a building in Tampa? Should there have been a state of emergency after the Oklahoma bombing?

And, what, exactly, should Bush have done? Launch missles at, uh... Saudi Arabia. You do understand that at the time NORAD had absolutely no plans for dealing with commercial airlines crashing into buildings on possible attacks WITHIN the country by commercial airlines. So, what, exactly, should Bush have done. It's all nice and easy to criticize his reaction knowing what we know now, but given what you knew at 8:45 EDT on 9/11/2001, what would you have done?

 

[IamTink]

Dmadman43 wrote:

Now, what if all it had been was a horrible accident. Would you have faulted the President for over reacting? Of course you would have.

No, I would not have faulted the president for over-reacting. If you have read my other response previous to this, I think I've clearly explained my reasons.