A bit of a vent- unexpected expense. Update

[kirstenb1]

Two of them!

Me too, great post RitaE!!

 

[midwestdee]

I believe daughtersrus' (the original poster) school board has a meeting Monday the 27th, unless they cancel it because of the weather. I'd say come on down, I think it would be reasonable to talk to the board and the public about all this.

 

[undertheradar]

Look, this is getting ridiculous. Is it honestly that hard to understand that during pick up and drop-off the girl in the wheelchair is at risk of being touched by the autistic children because the children are moving from point A to point B and the likely opportunity exists for contact…. THAT is the time when the Para needs to be on special alert because the children are out of their seats and walking close together?????

The Para-Pro of course gets breaks during the day and even time periods where she does not have to be on extra-hyper alert. The time when these incidents are happening is NOT one of those times.

How do we explain it? I don't know because numerous people have tried to explain it to you but you seem to be deliberately unwilling to accept the explanation.

Children within touching distance …. school/bus employees need to follow the written procedures they have been given to keep the children safe. The employee WAS NOT DOING THAT and the child's glasses were grabbed and broken. The IEP which is a legal document between the school and the parent states that the school personnel would follow that procedure. The school personnel did not follow the guidelines of the legal document. Damage happened. School liability exists.

And as a taxpayer just let me say that if you further feel inclined to lead a posse of moral outrage as our representative …. I'd prefer it if you direct your attention to the fact that a publicly funded employee isn't performing the job the taxpayers are paying her to perform and lay off your disgust of Special Education funding. I'm actually quite fond of Special Ed funding myself because over the long-haul it saves the taxpayers quite a bit of dollars in Long-Term Care Adult Services.

I'll give you a little education here. We resided in California, you know, that big state on the left side of the US? In order to fund all of the special requirements for some of the special ed programs, the schools had to get creative. Simple things like art, phys ed, music, school librarians, entire school libraries, were eliminated because, get this, there wasn't enough money for all of it. Yes we need to provide services for special needs students, just as we need to provide services to the other students.

See, this district in California was required to provide materials to home schoolers. The state even provides computers for home schoolers to use at home. Yet, programs are being eliminated to handle the ever growing number of IEP students. All the requirements of student IEPs. All with reduced funding year after year. The fact is, there isn't an endless supply of money.

California is an odd place. Teachers barely earn real wages, yet firefighters easily earn six figures a year with contract provided overtime. Yet, try and reduce public employee wages, benes, and pensions, and the unions scream from the hill tops. The entire year before a school funding levy is voted on, the kids are introduced to what programs will be eliminated in the next round of cuts if the levy fails.

There is no perfect solution, unless everybody starts paying into the pot. As it stands, less than 50% of California taxpayers pay state income tax. A prime source for state programs. Better example: We bought our "starter" home for a little over $630K. Our property taxes were roughly $7k per year. Our neighbor's house was larger and valued at $725k, her tax bill was roughly $700 due to Prop 13 and her homestead exemption. So there would be money there, if Californians would ever entertain the idea of fixing Prop 13.

Yes, I understand that the OP's dd is a severe case and the loss that they suffer from the breakage. I just don't know how you could pay this claim, yet deny a claim for a stolen musical instrument or a child injured in phys ed. As I stated, there is not an unlimited supply of money, so where do you draw the line?

 

[undertheradar]

By golly you may have it.

Let's see 1:1 means one on one thus pay attention to the one you are assigned to.

Gee, thanks

 

[manning]

I'll give you a little education here. We resided in California, you know, that big state on the left side of the US? In order to fund all of the special requirements for some of the special ed programs, the schools had to get creative. Simple things like art, phys ed, music, school librarians, entire school libraries, were eliminated because, get this, there wasn't enough money for all of it. Yes we need to provide services for special needs students, just as we need to provide services to the other students.

See, this district in California was required to provide materials to home schoolers. The state even provides computers for home schoolers to use at home. Yet, programs are being eliminated to handle the ever growing number of IEP students. All the requirements of student IEPs. All with reduced funding year after year. The fact is, there isn't an endless supply of money.

California is an odd place. Teachers barely earn real wages, yet firefighters easily earn six figures a year with contract provided overtime. Yet, try and reduce public employee wages, benes, and pensions, and the unions scream from the hill tops. The entire year before a school funding levy is voted on, the kids are introduced to what programs will be eliminated in the next round of cuts if the levy fails.

There is no perfect solution, unless everybody starts paying into the pot. As it stands, less than 50% of California taxpayers pay state income tax. A prime source for state programs. Better example: We bought our "starter" home for a little over $630K. Our property taxes were roughly $7k per year. Our neighbor's house was larger and valued at $725k, her tax bill was roughly $700 due to Prop 13 and her homestead exemption. So there would be money there, if Californians would ever entertain the idea of fixing Prop 13.

Yes, I understand that the OP's dd is a severe case and the loss that they suffer from the breakage. I just don't know how you could pay this claim, yet deny a claim for a stolen musical instrument or a child injured in phys ed. As I stated, there is not an unlimited supply of money, so where do you draw the line?

We can start with a strong dose of personal responsibility.

 

[Gracie09]

I'll give you a little education here. We resided in California, you know, that big state on the left side of the US? In order to fund all of the special requirements for some of the special ed programs, the schools had to get creative. Simple things like art, phys ed, music, school librarians, entire school libraries, were eliminated because, get this, there wasn't enough money for all of it. Yes we need to provide services for special needs students, just as we need to provide services to the other students. See, this district in California was required to provide materials to home schoolers. The state even provides computers for home schoolers to use at home. Yet, programs are being eliminated to handle the ever growing number of IEP students. All the requirements of student IEPs. All with reduced funding year after year. The fact is, there isn't an endless supply of money. California is an odd place. Teachers barely earn real wages, yet firefighters easily earn six figures a year with contract provided overtime. Yet, try and reduce public employee wages, benes, and pensions, and the unions scream from the hill tops. The entire year before a school funding levy is voted on, the kids are introduced to what programs will be eliminated in the next round of cuts if the levy fails. There is no perfect solution, unless everybody starts paying into the pot. As it stands, less than 50% of California taxpayers pay state income tax. A prime source for state programs. Better example: We bought our "starter" home for a little over $630K. Our property taxes were roughly $7k per year. Our neighbor's house was larger and valued at $725k, her tax bill was roughly $700 due to Prop 13 and her homestead exemption. So there would be money there, if Californians would ever entertain the idea of fixing Prop 13. Yes, I understand that the OP's dd is a severe case and the loss that they suffer from the breakage. I just don't know how you could pay this claim, yet deny a claim for a stolen musical instrument or a child injured in phys ed. As I stated, there is not an unlimited supply of money, so where do you draw the line?

Well here in nj - you know that state on the east coast with the highest or second highest property taxes in the nation. Where I pay 12k in taxes for a three bedroom ranch on 1/3 acre, we can't even get $150k for full day kindergarten but the football team is getting a 5 million dollar football stadium. We don't have buses so kids walk or parents drive them including special needs kids.
Funding of education sucks for lack of better word but to say it's all due to ieps is misguided and just plain wrong. I personally would rather we spend more money in school so kids with disabilities can learn the skills needed to get jobs and pay taxes. Twenty years ago a kid with dyslexia would be called stupid, Placed in a separate classroom and at 18 released from school, if he made it that long. Now the school is responsible for teaching him to read, just like any other kid, so he can actually graduate and get a job or go to college. Kids with Down syndrome would be institutionalized and forgotten about, given no education. Now the school teaches them to be the best they can be and some graduate college and other get jobs so they can be productive members of society.
A schools primary responsibility is educating students. Everything else, extra curricular etc is extra and shouldn't be at the expense of any child's education. I played two sports, did concert and marching band and was involved in plays, but all that cost money and was extra.

 

[daughtersrus]

I'll give you a little education here. We resided in California, you know, that big state on the left side of the US? In order to fund all of the special requirements for some of the special ed programs, the schools had to get creative. Simple things like art, phys ed, music, school librarians, entire school libraries, were eliminated because, get this, there wasn't enough money for all of it. Yes we need to provide services for special needs students, just as we need to provide services to the other students.

See, this district in California was required to provide materials to home schoolers. The state even provides computers for home schoolers to use at home. Yet, programs are being eliminated to handle the ever growing number of IEP students. All the requirements of student IEPs. All with reduced funding year after year. The fact is, there isn't an endless supply of money.

California is an odd place. Teachers barely earn real wages, yet firefighters easily earn six figures a year with contract provided overtime. Yet, try and reduce public employee wages, benes, and pensions, and the unions scream from the hill tops. The entire year before a school funding levy is voted on, the kids are introduced to what programs will be eliminated in the next round of cuts if the levy fails.

There is no perfect solution, unless everybody starts paying into the pot. As it stands, less than 50% of California taxpayers pay state income tax. A prime source for state programs. Better example: We bought our "starter" home for a little over $630K. Our property taxes were roughly $7k per year. Our neighbor's house was larger and valued at $725k, her tax bill was roughly $700 due to Prop 13 and her homestead exemption. So there would be money there, if Californians would ever entertain the idea of fixing Prop 13.

Yes, I understand that the OP's dd is a severe case and the loss that they suffer from the breakage. I just don't know how you could pay this claim, yet deny a claim for a stolen musical instrument or a child injured in phys ed. As I stated, there is not an unlimited supply of money, so where do you draw the line?

What does any of this have to do with the fact that the incident happened because public employees were not doing their job properly?



I'm not sure why it matters but I pay what you do in property taxes but my home value is about 1/3 of yours. Our school employees are paid well and I believe that they deserve it.

 

[mrsklamc]

I just don't know how you could pay this claim, yet deny a claim for a stolen musical instrument or a child injured in phys ed. As I stated, there is not an unlimited supply of money, so where do you draw the line?

It has already been explained that providing services for students with special needs saves money.

If the hypothetical musical instrument was stolen or the child was injured in phys ed because an employee failed to do their job, then yes, the district would be liable for that as well.

 

[zoemurr]

What does any of this have to do with the fact that the incident happened because public employees were not doing their job properly?



I'm not sure why it matters but I pay what you do in property taxes but my home value is about 1/3 of yours. Our school employees are paid well and I believe that they deserve it.

Yep.. OT but in NY my house is also worth 1/3 of theirs. Our taxes are about 11k.

OP: I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. Please keep us updated.

 

[kymom99]

Special Education services are paid for with federal funds: IDEA grants.

 

[daughtersrus]

I'll give you a little education here. We resided in California, you know, that big state on the left side of the US? In order to fund all of the special requirements for some of the special ed programs, the schools had to get creative. Simple things like art, phys ed, music, school librarians, entire school libraries, were eliminated because, get this, there wasn't enough money for all of it. Yes we need to provide services for special needs students, just as we need to provide services to the other students.

In another thread, you talked about your school district. You said that programs were cut but according to the website for your school district, that's not true. They have art, music, computer, band, chorus, gardening program, running club...at the elementary level.


At the middle school level wood, Spanish, computer, band, strings, chorus, life skills in addition to the standard classes. The also have long list of clubs including game club, chess club, Christian club, color guard, guitar, recycling, paranormal, hiking and the list goes on.


High school level for one of the schools in your district it shows 41 clubs, 21 sports activities, as well as a wide variety of academic classes.

So which schools have cut art, phys ed, music, school librarians, entire school libraries so that they could fund special education?

 

[4HppyCamprs]

I'll give you a little education here. We resided in California, you know, that big state on the left side of the US? In order to fund all of the special requirements for some of the special ed programs, the schools had to get creative. Simple things like art, phys ed, music, school librarians, entire school libraries, were eliminated because, get this, there wasn't enough money for all of it. Yes we need to provide services for special needs students, just as we need to provide services to the other students.

See, this district in California was required to provide materials to home schoolers. The state even provides computers for home schoolers to use at home. Yet, programs are being eliminated to handle the ever growing number of IEP students. All the requirements of student IEPs. All with reduced funding year after year. The fact is, there isn't an endless supply of money.

California is an odd place. Teachers barely earn real wages, yet firefighters easily earn six figures a year with contract provided overtime. Yet, try and reduce public employee wages, benes, and pensions, and the unions scream from the hill tops. The entire year before a school funding levy is voted on, the kids are introduced to what programs will be eliminated in the next round of cuts if the levy fails.

There is no perfect solution, unless everybody starts paying into the pot. As it stands, less than 50% of California taxpayers pay state income tax. A prime source for state programs. Better example: We bought our "starter" home for a little over $630K. Our property taxes were roughly $7k per year. Our neighbor's house was larger and valued at $725k, her tax bill was roughly $700 due to Prop 13 and her homestead exemption. So there would be money there, if Californians would ever entertain the idea of fixing Prop 13.

Yes, I understand that the OP's dd is a severe case and the loss that they suffer from the breakage. I just don't know how you could pay this claim, yet deny a claim for a stolen musical instrument or a child injured in phys ed. As I stated, there is not an unlimited supply of money, so where do you draw the line?

I really don't understand what that has to do with the Para being negligent in her duties to provide safeguarding of the ops daughter. It was her job as outlined per the contract and she didn't do it (likely her negligence was accidental) and the boy was able to break to break the girls glasses. The action by the boy does not appear to be accidental. The district should replace the glasses.

As for the hating on firefighters and police let me just say one day there will be no one to do those jobs because love of the job and benefits are the only reasons to it. Sorry you do not have a union to protect you from corporate greed.

My husbands pension is paid for 100% by him. Not by the state even though politicians like to tell you they have some part in it.

 

[Gracie09]

Ca had the fifth highest average teachers salary in the nation. Not too bad. I guess if a teacher wanted to make more they could take the firefighter test and become a firefighter.

 

[manning]

When a pension is underfunded you really don't have a pension. If there is no money to pay the pension then you get nothing. The smart thing to do is quit demanding the pension gets raised and start demanding they get 100% funded.

 

[Lewisc]

I'll give you a little education here. ...................

.

You can start educating me by telling me in what dictionary the incident described by the OP constitutes an accident. You can explain to me how a discussion regarding school funding for home schoolers, libraries etc. has anything to do with the topic of this thread.

I think a discussion regarding how much funds should be spent in those areas has some merit. I don't see how it's a topic for this thread. I don't see how we could have an intelligent discussion in a different place. There is such a difference in education in different parts of the country as to make such a discussion questionable. Posts based on incorrect assumptions of facts. Assuming the situation in your district is applicable to another. I don't think posters on a general internet board would provide enough facts and numbers for a meaningful discussion.

Yes, I understand that the OP's dd is a severe case and the loss that they suffer from the breakage. I just don't know how you could pay this claim, yet deny a claim for a stolen musical instrument or a child injured in phys ed. As I stated, there is not an unlimited supply of money, so where do you draw the line?

This claim is real easy. A 1:1 didn't do his/her job. The district is liable. No point answering your hypothetical situations. Under some circumstances the district would be liable for the stolen instrument. Under some circumstances the district might be liable for a child injured on property.

Glasses can break as the result of an accident. I don't know what kind of prescription the OPs kid has. A person who needs glasses 100% of the time should have an emergency set of glasses. Maybe an old pair, different script, but one which works somewhat. Maybe a pair of prescription sunglasses.

 

[LadyBeBop]

(putting on her flame-proof suit once again)....

I still believe that the responsibility of the glasses lie with the school district.
However, here is the problem in a nutshell.

Citizens, most of them believe they are overtaxed to begin with, don't want to see their hard-earned tax money to benefit a small group, or in this case, one student.

I work for the government myself. And I've seen our workload and expenses increase, while at the same time, our funding decreased. We are told to be good guardians of the funds that are allocated to us. Funds that come from taxpayers. We cannot use our funds for a small number of people without good reason.

I'm sure the school has a small emergency fund for situations such as this. However, too many incidents like these, and the school would have to search for other means of funding. Plus, this $500 could have been used to benefit more students. That should be enough to take a class of 30 to the zoo. Or bring in a speaker to talk to a school assembly. $500 isn't really a drop in the bucket. No school district want to spend that much money to benefit just one person.

And no taxpayer wants to see their tax dollars blown on someone else's carelessness

OP, I'm still firmly on your side. But I see the other side as well.

(taking off flame-proof suit...lunchtime is over).

 

[rosanab1031]

Except it wasn't an accident. If the bus hit a bump and the glasses fell off, that's an accident. If the boy put his back pack on and accidentally hit the glasses and broke them. That's an accident. This was deliberate and in front of the aides there to prevent these types of things from happening. The cost of the services provides to the op's daughter is immaterial to this discussion. She is entitled to a free appropriate education under section 504 and the Ada among others laws.

Thank you for having an understanding of FAPE and ADA! I agree with you 100%

Lord help the child who messes with mine! Lol. I would be up at the district office EVERY day raising hell.

If the incident from before happened while children were getting off the bus then the para should not have taken her eyes off her 1:1 FOR A SECOND while children were EXITING the bus! She is paid for a job she didn't do. Yes accidents happen but this wasn't an accident. The para wasn't paying attention which was her sole purpose on the bus so the incident happened.

I work with kids with severe autism. And let me tell you most of them know what they are doing they just don't know why. But most know they shouldn't be doing certain things.

 

[Vidia2]

I wonder why school or transportation personnel didn't have a behavior plan in place to prevent the behavior that caused the broken glasses. Sounds like an inappropriate atmosphere for an autistic kid to be in. Maybe they're of the ignorant variety that just blame autism on the kid who has it because it suits their victim mentality.

I think if I were OP I'd use this incident to get a different placement.

 

[djmeredith]

(putting on her flame-proof suit once again).... $500 isn't really a drop in the bucket. No school district want to spend that much money to benefit just one person. And no taxpayer wants to see their tax dollars blown on someone else's carelessness OP, I'm still firmly on your side. But I see the other side as well. (taking off flame-proof suit...lunchtime is over).

OP is well aware that $500 is a lot of money because she bought her daughter's glasses the first time! And if, as a taxpayer, you don't want the school spending money to replace a disabled child's broken glasses then you should hold the school district officials responsible for hiring employees who will do the job they are hired to do. Because this would not have happened to this child if the bus assistants were carrying out the child's safety plan as written on her legally binding IEP. The school legally promised to provide specific measures to ensure this child's safety and then an employee failed to follow through. This is why the school should and will pay.

OP I've got a lot of respect for you. Some posters have expressed completely uneducated and inappropriate views about disabled people and their rights and you've handled it with class.

 

[Suz D]

The responsible party is the one who broke the glasses. Lets pretend it was an accident. The student who broke the glasses is still responsible. One summer I moved to another town to perform in a local theatre production. I brought my guitar with me and when we were unloading the car, the guitar was accidentally run over and crushed. The person driving the car was responsible and her insurance paid to replace my guitar. It was an accident, but I was innocent in the matter.

When I was a teen, I accidentally broke my boyfriends glasses. We were horsing around outside and I got ahold of them and pulled them off and they broke. We (my parents and I) paid the bill.

Both of these were accidents but the person who broke the item was responsible.

Now let's factor in that with the "breakers" disability might also come a lack of impulse control. The child's parents are still responsible for the damage done by the child. If someone's 5 year old child throws a football through someone else's window, you can bet the parents of said child are on the hook to pay.

Re: the 1:1 I agree that this person should have been attending to his/her duties and to some degree bears responsibility for what happened (and by association, the school district does too). But, even if this person WAS paying full attention, there is no guarantee that the incident would not have happened. Unlikely, yes, but not impossible. Second, lets look at it this way. If I am a secret service agent assigned to protect the president and I turn the other way briefly and he gets shot, who goes to jail? Me or the shooter?

The "breaker" should pay. If they won't, then the district should pay and then seek reimbursement from the "breaker". The OP should absolutely not have to pay.