7 month availability getting more difficult

[sndral]

I was going to start a new post but I will ask all of you first. What is going on the first week of Dec. I looked at the resort availability and there is almost no inventory anywhere except the SUPER HIGH END bungalows and cabins

First week of Dec. is always booked up very early, cheapest point season + holiday decorations = very high demand. I think I've read it's the highest demand week for DVC - but maybe I just imagined that.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

First week of December is the highest demand week. Or so I've always heard, and the evidence I've seen supports that.

 

[crisi]

And because people who have been members a while - or new members who have read the DisBoards - know that the first week of December is tough and then book early - creating a cycle where it simply books a little earlier each year. DVC is sold in such a way that the resorts should be full by the time you check in - with studios and specialty units (value and standard view rooms, VAKL Concerige, BW and Theme Park View) going first. When the membership knows that will happen before seven months, they jump to get their vacations booked before it fills. That's the situation for the entire forth quarter of the year.

There will be some movement and some people will have success stalking or waitlisting - but not everyone who wants a room that week will get one. And its the time of year when MOST DVC members will end up staying at their home resort - which is why "buy where you won't mind ending up" is such a mantra around here.

 

[Deb & Bill]

And the rooms are larger - cheaper points, larger rooms makes it a good value choice. I also think that OKW swings to older owners rather set in their ways - they bought DVC when it first came out - early adopters, and I think that - comparatively - a surprising number of them still own. They went in with the knowledge that only OKW might be a possibility and are comfortable with that. Where SSR had a number of people who bought to get into the system as it existed when SSR was built - i.e. they might like SSR, but they bought so they could stay places in addition to SSR.

Crisi, you just described the two of us. We bought OKW in 1997 when our son was four yrs old. He's now 24 and doesn't join us any more. OKW has the only studio we'll ever book because of two real beds. And we can get it for 10 points per night. Plus we now live three hours away so we can take shorter trips.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I was going to start a new post but I will ask all of you first. What is going on the first week of Dec. I looked at the resort availability and there is almost no inventory anywhere except the SUPER HIGH END bungalows and cabins

First week of December is the highest demand week. Or so I've always heard, and the evidence I've seen supports that.

Yep, if you look at the posts by drusba, you'll see that the first week of Dec is the most popular week with DVC members. That's one week you always need to book your home resort at 11 months out and see if anything is available at seven months out.

 

[weheartdisney07]

I disagree, renting may increase seasonal demand, but I doubt it makes for lower availability year 'round. If they weren't being rented, those points would need to be used by someone, or lost. And most people aren't going to lose a lot of point year after year.

While I agree the points do need to go somewhere, the problem is with people renting their large contracts. Say you have 500 points, which you may use for a 2 bedroom or a grand villa for 1-2 vacations. However, you rent them out to 5-6 different people all wanting studios. This creates a significant disproportion in the numbers of studios available, which DVC was thinking those points would be used for larger rooms.

 

[Chuck S]

While I agree the points do need to go somewhere, the problem is with people renting their large contracts. Say you have 500 points, which you may use for a 2 bedroom or a grand villa for 1-2 vacations. However, you rent them out to 5-6 different people all wanting studios. This creates a significant disproportion in the numbers of studios available, which DVC was thinking those points would be used for larger rooms.

Well, not necessarily. I have 345 points, and for several years used them to rent 2 or 3 studios to take more guests and not have to borrow points from future years. I don't go as often now, usually once a year in a one bedroom, and then I bank/borrow for larger groups. Next year I'm getting a 2 bedroom and a GV at OKW for 8 nights.

 

[Dean]

While I agree the points do need to go somewhere, the problem is with people renting their large contracts. Say you have 500 points, which you may use for a 2 bedroom or a grand villa for 1-2 vacations. However, you rent them out to 5-6 different people all wanting studios. This creates a significant disproportion in the numbers of studios available, which DVC was thinking those points would be used for larger rooms.

I think that's the nature of the system currently whether it's rental or usage. The reality of a points system is that every buyer is buying for what their perceived usage will be. That means a disproportionate number of people will be buying for the higher demand options and times. So the system is automatically off from the start. That's why I feel that DVC will need to reallocate Poly & possibly CCV at some point and likely have to do the same between studios & 1 BR eventually. It would make sense to make both of those changes at the same time if they decide to do so.

 

[AmandaCT]

Hi, I am new! We are buying our first DVC contract (so excited) and hoping to go sometime in November or December. SSR is our home, is it likely that we will be able too find a studio though there even as we probably can't book for another month with the closing, waiting on docs etc.? I know everyone says SSR I usually has avaiability, does that include studios? Thanks for any insight

 

[ozliz]

Hi, I am new! We are buying our first DVC contract (so excited) and hoping to go sometime in November or December. SSR is our home, is it likely that we will be able too find a studio though there even as we probably can't book for another month with the closing, waiting on docs etc.? I know everyone says SSR I usually has avaiability, does that include studios? Thanks for any insight

I’ve been keeping an eye on November as I have some waitlists in place. The weekends are very busy, especially with the wine and dine race weekend but you would have more luck with a midweek stay. I think there might still be availability in 1 bedrooms too. You will want to have a backup plan though.

 

[taaren]

I think that's the nature of the system currently whether it's rental or usage. The reality of a points system is that every buyer is buying for what their perceived usage will be. That means a disproportionate number of people will be buying for the higher demand options and times. So the system is automatically off from the start. That's why I feel that DVC will need to reallocate Poly & possibly CCV at some point and likely have to do the same between studios & 1 BR eventually. It would make sense to make both of those changes at the same time if they decide to do so.

Oh it would be great if they decided to redistribute between studios and 1 bedrooms! I love one bedrooms but the twice as many points always makes me gunshy ... if the difference wasn't twice as much for a 1 bedroom I'd definitely book more of those more often, right now I tend to do either studios or 2 bedrooms, but if the point difference wasn't 20 vs 40 points and instead 25 vs 35 points I'd definitely book 1 bedrooms more often. Sadly, probably wouldn't affect my resort as it is sold out at 7 months constantly but still ... could see that pushing a lot of us over into the 1 bedroom crowd.

 

[Dean]

Oh it would be great if they decided to redistribute between studios and 1 bedrooms! I love one bedrooms but the twice as many points always makes me gunshy ... if the difference wasn't twice as much for a 1 bedroom I'd definitely book more of those more often, right now I tend to do either studios or 2 bedrooms, but if the point difference wasn't 20 vs 40 points and instead 25 vs 35 points I'd definitely book 1 bedrooms more often. Sadly, probably wouldn't affect my resort as it is sold out at 7 months constantly but still ... could see that pushing a lot of us over into the 1 bedroom crowd.

I try not to let my personal situation or preferences color such opinions. My goal is to take the information I have and make a judgement as to what should be done and what likely will be done. How it affects myself or someone else should be irrelevant to that opinion. For the difference between 1 BR and studios I look at the relative differences, sleeping arrangements and how other companies handle the same situation. For DVC, I also look at at the relative cash prices. I further consider that DVC has a contractual obligation to reallocate if the demand is truly far enough off. Of course there will be winners and losers any time there is such a change. Points wise it should be a wash but % wise such a change will affect studios more than 1 BR, esp at Poly. Anyone buying in either knew or should have known about that possibility and hopefully most of them accounted for that risk up front, they should have. DVC does have a history of dragging their feet on needed reallocations but they've done better the last decade than the previous one.

 

[Chuck S]

... and how other companies handle the same situation.

Dean, I know you have a lot of experience with other timeshares...I was under the impression that studios, while not uncommon, are not really a standard offering for most timeshares...is that true?

Oh it would be great if they decided to redistribute between studios and 1 bedrooms! I love one bedrooms but the twice as many points always makes me gunshy ... if the difference wasn't twice as much for a 1 bedroom I'd definitely book more of those more often, right now I tend to do either studios or 2 bedrooms, but if the point difference wasn't 20 vs 40 points and instead 25 vs 35 points I'd definitely book 1 bedrooms more often. Sadly, probably wouldn't affect my resort as it is sold out at 7 months constantly but still ... could see that pushing a lot of us over into the 1 bedroom crowd.

I hear you, for years we did studios. When my Mom reached "a certain age" we started doing two annual trips and went to one bedrooms. After she passed and I realized that I now have gotten older, I also appreciate the one bedrooms, and rarely will book a studio. The exception is when I want to try a resort other than OKW, because even the studios at the newer resorts are pricey. I stayed at the Poly a couple of years ago. It was nice...but I really missed my OKW one bedroom. I do want to try the other two monorail resorts and AKL in the future, and will likely do studios there, unless I'm traveling with more than one other person. I plan to be doing a two bedroom AND a GV for a party of 11 people next year.

 

[Dean]

Dean, I know you have a lot of experience with other timeshares...I was under the impression that studios, while not uncommon, are not really a standard offering for most timeshares...is that true?

I'm not sure I can give you absolute numbers (actually I'm sure I can't) but here's my take. I put it roughly 80/20 overall based on what I know and maybe 90/10 if you look at new construction. The majority of my experience is with Hilton, Marriott, DVC, Bluegreen and Wyndham. I also tend to go exploring timeshares when we go places and we've stayed at a number of other places as well. My sense is that it's unusual for a newer timeshare not to have a lockoff of some type and where they don't, there's always a reason for it. Usually it's based on parking, traffic and permitting. Having smaller and larger units increases the potential market for sales. Older timeshares tend to have a higher % non lockoff's. Areas where real estate is a premium seem more likely to do smaller units like Aruba, HI or WDW.

Lockoff's can be loosely divided up into hotel rooms, a glorified hotel room (like DVC), an expanded studio, or a smaller 1 BR with a few exceptions that are quite different. Each system tends to have it's own personality including with lockoff's and some resorts are unique. Marriott tends to be similar to DVC but better. Imagine a DVC studio with a King and real kitchen furnishings including for cooking. Wyndham and Bluegreen tend to lean more toward a 2 BR lockoff being a larger and smaller 1 BR. I can only think of a handful that only have hotel rooms with no formal amenities but I can think of a couple that have studios that are as large and functional as a DVC 1 BR. I can think of one resort that has 3BR double lockoff's that L/O into a 1 BR and 2 studios and in many ways, the studios are the better and more in demand units.

The issues I have with DVC studios is the one in question, the points spread which I believe is too large and I don't buy the square footage argument. The other is that it would have been easy to make them far more functional with little adaption or increased cost. I look at Marriott's Grande Vista studios as the closest and best comparison.

Specific to your question, I see them as routine and core to a current view of timeshares in general. But like all things in timeshares, one needs to be educated.

 

[Deb & Bill]

We've stayed in a Hilton GVC studio at Parc Soleil in Lake Buena Vista. It had a king bed and slept only two persons (and no others under the age of three). It had a nice kitchenette with plenty of cabinets, but still no burners or oven, just a microwave. It was connected to a one bedroom unit. The other HGVC timeshare we own only has two bedroom units that only sleep six (no extras under the age of three). One king bed, two twin beds and a queen sleeper sofa.

 

[Dean]

We've stayed in a Hilton GVC studio at Parc Soleil in Lake Buena Vista. It had a king bed and slept only two persons (and no others under the age of three). It had a nice kitchenette with plenty of cabinets, but still no burners or oven, just a microwave. It was connected to a one bedroom unit. The other HGVC timeshare we own only has two bedroom units that only sleep six (no extras under the age of three). One king bed, two twin beds and a queen sleeper sofa.

Burner’s and convection microwaves are not that uncommon for studios but not super common either. I’ve seen some studios with full mini kitchens as well including one with a full kitchen and mini fridge with an ice maker, darndest thing I ever saw. Areas that have all inclusive tend to be set up differently and have less kitchen type amenities. hotel conversions also tend to have certain kitchen characteristics. I’ve also seen some of the weirdest dishwashers and stoves as well as a few all in one unit washer/dryers that take 4.5 hours to complete a cycle. As for occupancy, more strict is the norm. I’ve seen one in HH roll out to the unit and give the occcupants a 2 hour window to get down to occupancy or vacate the premises.

 

[DougEMG]

I wonder if one of the reasons DVC might not want to reallocate the studios is that having low point studios is a selling feature. If more people today are buying with the goal of only staying in studios (because of the high purchase price), raising the point cost of studios means people have to buy more points and the cost saving compared to cash rooms becomes smaller.

 

[crisi]

I wonder if one of the reasons DVC might not want to reallocate the studios is that having low point studios is a selling feature. If more people today are buying with the goal of only staying in studios (because of the high purchase price), raising the point cost of studios means people have to buy more points and the cost saving compared to cash rooms becomes smaller.

And when they discover that its hard to book studios at seven months, but there is one bedroom availability, they need more points. That sounds like a winning situation for Disney - get more people to buy with the low initial studio cost, get them to add on when they run into availability issues with studios.

 

[Bing Showei]

I wonder if one of the reasons DVC might not want to reallocate the studios is that having low point studios is a selling feature. If more people today are buying with the goal of only staying in studios (because of the high purchase price), raising the point cost of studios means people have to buy more points and the cost saving compared to cash rooms becomes smaller.

@drusba supports this point in another thread around UY.

It's a lot easier to sell an impulse buyer while at the park on a small contract that they can get x number of days in a studio each year, than to to try to sell double the points for the same number of days in a 1BR. Whether or not the system can actually support all those small CCV/VGF studio demands is secondary.

 

[Dean]

I wonder if one of the reasons DVC might not want to reallocate the studios is that having low point studios is a selling feature. If more people today are buying with the goal of only staying in studios (because of the high purchase price), raising the point cost of studios means people have to buy more points and the cost saving compared to cash rooms becomes smaller.

I doubt it’s that sinister. More likely they just haven’t gotten up the nerve to actually do it or they are having trouble getting away from the philosophy that made it where it is currently. Of course they have the internal data and it’s possible that the overall relative demand isn’t as far off as we all think it is though I think that’s less likely. The point that some often make when this comes up is if everything is used in the end it doesn’t matter anyway. And while I disagree somewhat with that answer, there is an element of truth to it from a practical standpoint. Remember a reallocation is actually quite costly because of all the time and resources that go into it.