5th Park!

[Peter Pirate 2]

I would never say never to a 5th gate at walt disney world.

Firstly, the resort currently does not target some of the major visitor groups within the theme park industry. For example it lacks the facilities on the whole to cater for the todays big thrill seekers, with only Rock and Roller Coaster and Tower of Terror (and to a degree Everest) really appealing to these groups, and the lack of attractions to draw them means they head elsewhere to satisfy their need to be thrilled.

Secondly, the Walt Disney Company has always been know to take risks. Walt was a big risk taker, lots of people said disneyland would never work, and it ended up being a huge success and started a chain recation leading to the creation of the other disney parks being built across the USA and eventually spanning the globe.

Thirdly, disney has opened a new park about evey 10 years or so give or take a few years for the last 4 decade, and the resort is growing more popular each year.

Last but not least, one day tickets for disney world cost a lot more money, as additional days usually only cost a few dollars per day especially when the vacation spans more than 3 days. thrill seekers my be less inclined to buy vacation long tickets as they my only want to visit the one park and if they go in the numbers which attend IOA, alton towers (which is in the UK) and Busch gardens, a big thrills park could actually increase overall visitor numbers and revenue. this makes business sense, but of course there are cons such as finding staffing, increasing running costs etc.

Never I say. Walt was a risk taker in that he would do whatever he believed in no matter what but Bob Iger is no Walt Disney. He's an ABC 'brand monkey' and nothing more.

Further, the Disney Company doesn't even resemble what it once was. While profitability was always a major concern (as in all business) under Walt and in the early days, the means to the ends was the difference. Walt believed that if you gave the people quality first, if you exceeded their expectations, if you could make them dream you certainly would succeed. He was right.

Iger and current Disney's philosophy is the bottom line. Look at free dining...They were willing to gut the less profitable fine dining program in favor of the highly profitable and generic dining plans. Sure a large segment love this and to be sure Disney reaps the profits but along the way they destroyed a truly innovative, distinctive and well thought out program that was succesful and growing - but not as wildly profitable as it could be. If this is OK with you (generic you) then your opinion of 'something Disney' and mine are vastly different.

Regarding the parks, as pointed out ad nauseum, the facts are the parks are added to increase a guests stay on property meaning more money. AK opened and DID NOT DO THIS. Disney will not make this mistake again. The lone exception to this is that I can see would be be the deluxe 300.00 per day experience ala Discovery cove...

 

[MJMcBride]

Regarding the parks, as pointed out ad nauseum, the facts are the parks are added to increase a guests stay on property meaning more money. AK opened and DID NOT DO THIS. Disney will not make this mistake again. The lone exception to this is that I can see would be be the deluxe 300.00 per day experience ala Discovery cove...

I'm not sure if they will do that deluxe park thing. Is it a big money maker for Sea World?

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Yes, it's been very good to Sea World...It has allowed the building of Aquatica I'm told and has kept expansion plans on the Sea a World table. Still Disney would need a better economy and sure fire idea or, I agree, no way...

 

[GrumpyFan]

Take a look at Jim Hill's web site. He's suggesting that the fifth gate will be Disney's Night Kingdom, a specialty, limited access, high dollar "adventure park".

Interesting... but questionable considering the HUGE investment Disney just made in DCA, and the uncertain status of the current U.S. economy.

 

[ChrisFL]

Yep, so the rumor cat is out of the bag fully now, and this is what I've been getting a little bird talking in my ear about the past few weeks, there WILL be a 5th park and Night Kingdom is it.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Well, I just read Hill's article and I must say i hope he's got basic, preliminary info here because I got to tell you this is very underwhelming, IMO. Hardly anything seems unique to Disney and a 2 to 1 CM/guest ratio is ridiculous. Individually these 'experiences' seem fun (at least) but collectively it seems kind of, "eh"...

Discovery Cove is an excellent, on theme example of this hybrid park but Disney's 'leaked' version seems misguided somehow. It doesn't excite me in the least.

What do you guys think?

 

[GrumpyFan]

Well, I just read Hill's article and I must say i hope he's got basic, preliminary info here because I got to tell you this is very underwhelming, IMO. Hardly anything seems unique to Disney and a 2 to 1 CM/guest ratio is ridiculous. Individually these 'experiences' seem fun (at least) but collectively it seems kind of, "eh"...

What do you guys think?

I was thinking the same thing. Surely these are just some "scraps" somebody on the inside threw to him. Because if that's it, then I won't worry a bit about whether or not to plop down $250-300 for a night of fun. If this is true, there's got to be more to the story. Disney can surely do better than this.

While reading the article, I couldn't help but see this tie-in to the Adventures by Disney vacation packages, but on a smaller scale.

 

[ChrisFL]

While reading the article, I couldn't help but see this tie-in to the Adventures by Disney vacation packages, but on a smaller scale.

That's what I've been thinking as well, seems appropriate as a name, then they try this one at WDW, and Disney hopes, guests will want to go to other places around the world to do the same thing?

 

[Tink's Tormentor]

I don't care for the name Disney's Night Kingdom... Now, if they called it Disney's Nighttime Adveture Kingdom, I'd be down with that...

 

[Squirlz]

I finally read the Jim Hill description and it sounds like a bad April Fools joke.

 

[Tink's Tormentor]

I don't think the idea is bad... Not everything can be rides and shows... The idea sounds interesting.... I just don't care for the name...

 

[starwarsdisney]

Reading this has got me thinking. I'll share my story and see if I can make my point. My wife and I went on our honeymoon in 2003 to Orlando, mostly focused on Disney. We stayed off property had 4 tickets with park hopper to Disney, 2day passes to Universal, and a one day ticket to Sea-World. We were there for 9 days/8 nights. We got in late and flew out early so we kind of lost those 2 days. So we really had 7 days to work with.

Day 1 Travel
Day 2 MK
Day 3 Epcot
Day 4 Downtown Disney and relaxing
Day 5 MGM (DHS now) left early
Day 6 Relax
Day 7 MK/MGM just for the parade, which sucked
Day 8 Sea World (one day was enough for this, I can't see spending 2 days here)
Day 9 Travel

You will notice we never made it to Universal. On the 2nd day of our trip we decided to call our Travel agent and ask if we could get a refund on the Universal tickets. She said we could and it was decided we would not be attending Universal. We were both happy to hear this, people at our hotel had been telling us that is was super crowded there with long waits for anything. Take the longest Disney line and double it is what we were hearing. We have that here at home it's called Six Flags Great America and it sucks (they charge extra for so much too so I really hope Disney does not go down that road)! Anyway, the point I'm making here is we decided to focus on Disney, but still skipped AK park. Partly because of time and partly because it didn't seem like it had a lot to offer.

Fast forward 5 years and we're going back to Disney to celebrate our 5 year anniversary. We will be stay on property this time and doing all Disney. We are spending 10 days/9 nights this time with the difference being we are flying in early and leaving late so we at least get 1/2 of our travel days to enjoy. Now in planning our attack of the parks we have decided that AK and DHS will only get one day each (if that). MK and Epcot will get multiple days with a couple days built in to relax and enjoy DTD and our resort.

So what's my point. We are not every year Disney people, maybe every 3-5 years, we have other places we want to visit. Disney has suceeded in getting us to stay on propery, and make our vacation all Disney. I won't give them credit for us extending our stay, that's just because we want a longer vacation. The bottom line here is I think 4 parks are enough right now. DHS and AK really do seem like parks that can be done in a day or less. In fact looking back I was a little disappointed with DHS (MGM at the time). MK and Epcot require at least a couple days each. Adding a 5th park that is not well thought out would be a mistake. I'm not paying $300 a pop for a "special park" either. That would alienate a lot of people. At least at Discovery Cove I can swim with dolphins. MK and Epcot continue to be the draws for Disney. AK and DHS are just an extras that if you have time you should do. If you can't get these two parks to be more exciting and worth a whole day or two, why bother with a 5th. I agree all you would be doing is redistrubiting people from 4 parks to 5, with the draw still being MK and Epcot!

Maybe in another 10-20 years a 5th park would work. For right now work on AK and DHS! (American Idol is not the answer either)

 

[minnie61650]

I don't think the idea is bad... Not everything can be rides and shows... The idea sounds interesting.... ....

I agree.
I think it sounds intriguing.
If WDW does build it and if they offer something that interests us; DH and I would be willing to pay the $300 (or so) each
entry fee.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Tink's Tormentor]

I agree.
I think it sounds intriguing.
If WDW does build it and if they offer something that interests us; DH and I would be willing to pay the $300 (or so) each
entry fee.

Just my 2 cents.

I will be more than willing to try it, at least once... but the name... I just can't get over the terrible sounding name....

 

[Captain Hook]

Isn't Disney missing there target audience? How many families are going to put down an extra $300 per person, for a night time park? Young famielies are not going out at night, thats probably why Sea World has theres during the day.That seems like alot of plush, snowglobes, generic t-shirts, and discounted meals Disney would be missing out on.

 

[ChrisFL]

Isn't Disney missing there target audience? How many families are going to put down an extra $300 per person, for a night time park? Young famielies are not going out at night, thats probably why Sea World has theres during the day.That seems like alot of plush, snowglobes, generic t-shirts, and discounted meals Disney would be missing out on.

Recently I've seen a lot of discussion on other message boards about how Disney seems to be consistently NOT targeting adults at all anymore and maybe this is the reaction to it.

Most of Disney's recent attractions seem to be mostly geared toward younger kids.

 

[Starr W.]

Isn't Disney missing there target audience? How many families are going to put down an extra $300 per person, for a night time park? Young famielies are not going out at night, thats probably why Sea World has theres during the day.That seems like alot of plush, snowglobes, generic t-shirts, and discounted meals Disney would be missing out on.

They are targeting families like mine that would pay that(we are going to do Discovery Cove next trip) and the big one 'Conventions".

Convention business is big, ask the wedding people, they'll bump a wedding reception from a ballroom or other location or dessert party at Epcot if they have a convention group(spend more money than a Disney bride and groom), that want the location.

 

[PinCrazed]

The real answer here is that no one knows for sure if there will be a fifth park. I am sure there has been discussing and maybe even some focus groups about it.

World economy is going to be a driving factor in all decisions as a good chunk of Disney dollars comes from overseas tourists.

The question is "Where can we get reliable information on disney'supcoming plans for expansion?" I really do believe that Disney needs to expand the number of roller coasters and other thrill rides to keep itself competitive with the growing teen market.

 

[MJMcBride]

The real answer here is that no one knows for sure if there will be a fifth park. I am sure there has been discussing and maybe even some focus groups about it.

I still maintain it doesn't make any financial sense to build anything bigger than a boutique park

 

[PinCrazed]

I still maintain it doesn't make any financial sense to build anything bigger than a boutique park

I agree with you 100% for the next five years or so atleast. My point being is that no one really knows. I think a lot of what you hear on these forums is not so much a real rumor as it is something someone wants a rollercoaster park, a villians park etc. I do not think competition from universal is a huge threat considering they have ZERO room to expand.

The only counter to the financial piece is that Disney always seems to find a way to make money. The parks are still a huge money maker and draw for millions of people a year. The points could be argued all day, but to what end. So once again, No one knows.