5th gate on the horizon?

[lockedoutlogic]

If that should happen, then they should take the whole ride out. Aerosmith and the ride fit are a perfect match, IMO.

That ride is still a pretty good short, high capacity ride...it could be modified with a new band pretty easily.

I don't think you'll see it go away unless they do massive new construction In that area.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I found details about the 5th gate.

PVC - Park Vacation Club. For a small up front real estate investment you can actually own a piece of the magic. You and 35,000 of your friends will be able to use your investment points to buy entry into the theme park (point requirements vary by season)

Once in the park you'll find a hassle free experience with our friendly cast members no where to be found! You'll make your own food, run your own rides, and even clean up after yourself! Don't worry though - every 4th day we'll turn on a giant hose and make the park just like new again!

*Points purchased give you a fractional ownership for 50 years. Annual maintenance fees apply. Additional guests up to and including 35,000 may be invited to pay full rates to enter the same park - paying guests are entitled to actual food service, ride operators, and cast member services. Details subject to change.

ok...I give up...this one is too good.

No mas!!!

 

[SJMajor67]

That ride is still a pretty good short, high capacity ride...it could be modified with a new band pretty easily.

I don't think you'll see it go away unless they do massive new construction In that area.

The one think I would like to see modified are the shoulder restraints. If you go on a coaster anywhere else they have seat-belts that buckle into the restraint as an extra safety precaution. I'd like to see those installed.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The one think I would like to see modified are the shoulder restraints. If you go on a coaster anywhere else they have seat-belts that buckle into the restraint as an extra safety precaution. I'd like to see those installed.

True...but the over the shoulders are meant to lessen the banging of the upper body components...not keep you in the car.

That's a mid 90's off the shelf vekoma designed Lsm coaster...it may not be possible to change the restraints from a safety standpoint.

A latched seatbelt would always have been enough to keep you in the seat...but the head banging from the side to side movement would be a big problem.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

IMO Disney is really trying to focus most of its attention (not considering global items) on sprucing up and revitalizing its current DLR and WDW. They are trying to keep some of its legacy (that's what I personally would call original or near original attractions) work while recognizing that today's people expect progress and exciting new things soooo rapidly.

The next 5 or so years (I believe the major changes like the expansions for the parks (Toy Story/Star Wars) won't be completed til 2018-2020 (as far as I can pinpoint will all the other threads out there) I put a few extra years on there for other minor updates they may choose to do or any delays they may experience with the expansions).

They then would likely take 10 or more years for all those expansions and new shiny stuff to settle in before even glancing at a new park.

I honestly think a 5th park is always in the cards but that glimmer of a thought wouldn't be feasible for quite a while. A large reason it seems people bring up the 5th park is due to the growing attendance and in all honesty if this continues park expansions can only go so far to spread out the crowds but I'm not sure they are bad enough for Disney to put forth the money, effort, and time to build a brand new park..things are a lot different than they were when they started building AK and when it got completed (opened in 1998 which believe it or not was 17 years ago!!).

I for one would love love love a 5th park and I do so hope they do one some day it just doesn't seem to be in the cards for quite some time.

 

[Lesverts]

I love how y'all are so confident that there won't be a 5th gate when Pete thinks that it is inevitable in the current climate in Orlando.

Epcot needed TLC in the 90's when they built Animal Kingdom. DHS was rushed into production to combat the construction of Universal Studios Florida. Every indication is that Universal has plans for at least 2 more hotels (that are better run, nicer amenities and better priced then Disney's) and at least 3 more immersive lands that may or may not include a new park. Paramount wants to build a park in London, but it looks like it might fall through. Where else could the developers and the studio go with their money and properties? There is going to be a lot of downward pressure on Disney in the coming years. Especially when you think that there is going to be significantly reduced visitor numbers from Canada, Latin America and Europe because of the rapid raise of the dollar over the last year and the last 3 months especially.

Disney had plans and were almost ready to announce a fifth gate 15 years ago. You would be utterly mad to think that Disney Imagineering doesn't have a plan or concept in place for a new park.

 

[rteetz]

I love how y'all are so confident that there won't be a 5th gate when Pete thinks that it is inevitable in the current climate in Orlando.

Epcot needed TLC in the 90's when they built Animal Kingdom. DHS was rushed into production to combat the construction of Universal Studios Florida. Every indication is that Universal has plans for at least 2 more hotels (that are better run, nicer amenities and better priced then Disney's) and at least 3 more immersive lands that may or may not include a new park. Paramount wants to build a park in London, but it looks like it might fall through. Where else could the developers and the studio go with their money and properties? There is going to be a lot of downward pressure on Disney in the coming years. Especially when you think that there is going to be significantly reduced visitor numbers from Canada, Latin America and Europe because of the rapid raise of the dollar over the last year and the last 3 months especially.

Disney had plans and were almost ready to announce a fifth gate 15 years ago. You would be utterly mad to think that Disney Imagineering doesn't have a plan or concept in place for a new park.

That concept was for a villains park/dark kingdom. That was nixed because of 9/11 and the tourism drop. 15 years ago also had different management in place.

Look I love Pete but I don't think we see a 5th gate in WDW for at least the next 15 years. Now universal is a different story I definitely think we see one there within the next 5-10 years.

Disney is putting a lot into fixing DHS right now and that's where the focus should be. Opening another park cannibalizes some of the attendance at the other parks. It happened when AK opened. People only have so much vacation time. I'm not saying a 5th gate will never happen but it's not going to happen as soon as Pete thinks.

 

[rwdavis2]

From a purely accounting standpoint, there is no chance of a 5th gate. However, as Disney looks at the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of the Magic Bands and the new FastPass+ system, there may be a different response. A new gate may be the only way to absorb the huge crowds that are starting to be present in Orlando year round. If Disney keeps growing at 2-4% per year (as they seem to have been the past 10 years, including during the recession), they will begin to have a visitor base that they can't support in their current park configuration. If they average 250,000 people per day over the year, even at 2% growth per year, they will have 60,000 additional visitors in 10 years. That is not a number that can be supported in their current park configuration. Will the guest numbers continue to grow, who knows, but Disney would have to consider it a possibility.

I know it will never happen, but it would be interesting to see a breakdown of their actual visitor count, and what guests are actually spending in the parks (new vs. returners, and so on). Without that information, all of our thoughts are just conjecture, and we don't really know what makes sense for the company.

In the old days, a fifth gate would have literally been on the table just in case it was given the go ahead (EPCOT sat on a table for 10-15 years before it was actually given a go ahead). I would bet there are conversations and plans floating around just in case, because the visitor numbers imply that it may be needed in 10 or so years.

You take care of the crowds by significantly raising prices. I think that explains the steep price increase for various annual passes.

 

[sachilles]

Until the current 4 parks, are developed to their highest capacity, the need for a 5th gate is next to Zero.
You can add a new park with Star Wars land, Avatar land, Beastly Kingdom, Pixar place OR you can place them in the existing parks, getting the same customer capacity, without having the logistics of creating a new park.

 

[LeeAndRobin]

It would be interesting to know how the two Tokyo parks impacted the number of Japanese who travel to to either DLR or WDW. Perhaps opening a new gate in Brazil would likewise reduce traffic from Latin America, thus lowering the "population pressure" on the current parks.

 

[derekleigh]

A 5th gate at this moment doesn't make sense. AK and DHS are in the works to have very sizeable additions which will allow a higher capacity. From an accounting-standpoint, adding an additional land to a park or two is easier than creating a whole new gate.

However, I wouldn't completely rule out a 5th gate option. As others mentioned, if Disney continues to gain bigger crowds, a 5th gate may be the answer to relive congestion. But seeing as how Avatar will be ready in 2016/2017 and DHS's Star Wars and Pixar lands won't be ready until 2018 and 2020 (?), respectively, a 5th gate probably wouldn't even begin to happen until a solid 10 years.

I do hope a Dark Kingdom or Land would be added. It would be such a cool place to have a lot of villains rule. A whole park dedicated to such an idea seems a bit much and a smaller land would probably satisfy the demand for more villain appeal.

 

[Spacedog1975]

Until the current 4 parks, are developed to their highest capacity, the need for a 5th gate is next to Zero.
You can add a new park with Star Wars land, Avatar land, Beastly Kingdom, Pixar place OR you can place them in the existing parks, getting the same customer capacity, without having the logistics of creating a new park.

I'd love to see Beastly happen, though I feel like Pandora has replaced it. I'd also love to see Australia happen.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It would be interesting to know how the two Tokyo parks impacted the number of Japanese who travel to to either DLR or WDW. Perhaps opening a new gate in Brazil would likewise reduce traffic from Latin America, thus lowering the "population pressure" on the current parks.

Interesting theory...

The problem is Brazil's economy is gonna crash hard. That's probably why Disney hasn't done much forays into that idea already.

A 3.5 hour flight drops them in OIA...not the case in the Far East or even Paris.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'd love to see Beastly happen, though I feel like Pandora has replaced it. I'd also love to see Australia happen.

I think they need one more animal centric land...no question.

Australia could be perfect. The rare Chinese pandas in asia could also move the bar (it's not like China OWES Disney or anything...)

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I love how y'all are so confident that there won't be a 5th gate when Pete thinks that it is inevitable in the current climate in Orlando.

Epcot needed TLC in the 90's when they built Animal Kingdom. DHS was rushed into production to combat the construction of Universal Studios Florida. Every indication is that Universal has plans for at least 2 more hotels (that are better run, nicer amenities and better priced then Disney's) and at least 3 more immersive lands that may or may not include a new park. Paramount wants to build a park in London, but it looks like it might fall through. Where else could the developers and the studio go with their money and properties? There is going to be a lot of downward pressure on Disney in the coming years. Especially when you think that there is going to be significantly reduced visitor numbers from Canada, Latin America and Europe because of the rapid raise of the dollar over the last year and the last 3 months especially.

Disney had plans and were almost ready to announce a fifth gate 15 years ago. You would be utterly mad to think that Disney Imagineering doesn't have a plan or concept in place for a new park.

I can only throw out the two things that jump to mind when new parks are presented as "logical" because they built them in the 50's, 60s, 70's, 80's, and 90's. (Notice that pattern has been broken the last 2 decades):

1. How much timeoff does the average American get?

2. Do you know anybody who wants to work a full time job where they make $15,500 a year and can't cover costs?

And do those people know 10,000 friends in the Orlando, Florida area who'll sign up to do that outside?


The answers to those two question...a billion other ideas aside...basically ends the 5th gate debate under the current structure.

The stock market today also ends the discussion...as any reference to "how things are in Orlando" lacks a perspective on the economy...which functions like a wave with peaks and troughs, not as a linear line.

 

[tjkraz]

If Disney were to ever consider a true 5th gate, one possible approach would be a "boutique" park like Sea World's Discovery Cove. Modest construction costs & modest staffing with limited admission to justify high prices.

Who knows what form it would take but if we consider something like Star Wars, there would certainly be takers.

Prior to the recession, it sounds like Disney was pursuing something along these lines. From what I've read, the "Dark Kingdom" concept was to have been some sort of all-day safari experience that utilized new & existing facilities adjacent to Disney's Animal Kingdom. Ultimately the project was scaled-down and it became the Wild Africa Trek.

I'm still skeptical of any sort of 5th gate until shovels hit the dirt, but this approach seems more feasible than another full-blown theme park.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

If Disney were to ever consider a true 5th gate, one possible approach would be a "boutique" park like Sea World's Discovery Cove. Modest construction costs & modest staffing with limited admission to justify high prices.

Who knows what form it would take but if we consider something like Star Wars, there would certainly be takers.

Prior to the recession, it sounds like Disney was pursuing something along these lines. From what I've read, the "Dark Kingdom" concept was to have been some sort of all-day safari experience that utilized new & existing facilities adjacent to Disney's Animal Kingdom. Ultimately the project was scaled-down and it became the Wild Africa Trek.

I agree...I think the problem is that Disney can do nothing that lends itself naturally to a boutique park the way discovery cove did.

But I would argue that a boutique park wouldn't be a "fifth gate"...anything with a different price structure not include in passes and multiday tickets isn't a traditional park, no?

 

[dogdangling]

Disney fell asleep at the wheel and are now catching up spending billions on revamping the parks. I can't see a fifth gate anytime soon and except more resorts to pop up.

 

[rteetz]

more resorts to pop up

More DVC resorts that is

 

[Eoghann]

Look I love Pete but I don't think we see a 5th gate in WDW for at least the next 15 years. Now universal is a different story I definitely think we see one there within the next 5-10 years.

I thought Pete's prediction was that "someone" would build another gate in Orlando. Which is rather different from "Disney will build a 5th gate." I find that much easier to believe.

The economics don't make sense for a 5th gate on all sorts of levels:

• Building new park infrastructure is hugely expensive but gains you nothing over expanding existing parks
• The last time they built a park it cannibalized their own market.
• Needing that many more people would likely trigger an increase in labor costs.
• The existing parks (except MK) are operating well below current capacity never mind future capacity
• Since people aren't getting turned away from the parks a new park would have to entice an entirely new audience... who is that exactly?
• The company currently has (widely reported) substantial problems maintaining project budgets, why would you try to build a new park if you haven't solved that?
• The fact that someone somewhere once proposed a plan for a 5th gate means very little. They also had plans for an indoor park and an American History park and all sorts of other things that never got built.