4.5MPH ECVs -- Why?

[tosha27]

Simply put, because able bodied people can go faster than a walk if they want (jog or run) so the option to move faster is made available to ECV users too.

Neither foot traffic nor ECV users should be charging around at full capable speed all the time. You use it when you need it.

And we have a winner.

 

[Sweet Melissa]

As a tall, able-bodied, and extraordinarily good looking young man, let me say that power walking among my types generally maxes out in the mid 4s... then you're breaking into a slow jog. Sounds like they designed the ECV to go as fast as they could reasonably expect someone to walk. Makes sense to me.

Makes sense to me too. I'd like to see some of the OP's figures for average walking speeds. A quick search told me that the average walking speed for adults is 3.1 miles per hour. 2 miles per hour seems rather slow to me. I do like to mosey while I'm in the parks, but not that slowly.

 

[disneyjanet]

I agree the op's numbers are off for walking speeds. I'm currently doing my MS in kinesiology and am certain we use higher walking speeds for calculations in my coursework but I don't have my textbooks handy to look it up. I believe going from memory alone that 2 mph is the number that if you are unable to maintain you are at a higher risk of death. A quick online search got me these number from http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art20257.asp
Avg pace women 3 mph
Avg pace men 3.5 mph
Fitness walking 3.5-4 mph
Power walking 4.5-5.5 mph

These numbers seem consistent to what I learned in my masters program.

I know personally because I am training for a 1/2 marathon with a gps device that my warm-up and cool-down walking speed are pretty spot on 3 mph. This is comparable to the speed I'd walk around the parks if I'm not stuck in a crowd. If I'm rushing to get a fast pass at rope drop I'm much faster. I personally couldn't reach power walking speeds with my short legs but have done 4 mph easily on the treadmill.

I'd say that using actual figures of normal walking speeds that the ECV numbers seem completely appropriate to approximate human walking speeds. The top speed is a touch faster than most would walk but not outside of possible.

 

[kaligal]

A friend of mine lived exactly 1.47 miles from my house. I walked there a lot. Took ten or fifteen minutes on a normal day.

Whe we walked the 3 mile loop, without hurrying, it took us about 40-45 minutes.

We once walked 9.5 miles. Took us 2.5 - 3 hours.

 

[bouncycat]

I agree round 3. Why can't people leave ECV's alone and go about their own life being greatful that they don't have to use one in daily life? I have a power chair, and top speed is 5 mph. Do I use that in the parks, not all the time. It's needed to go up the monorail ramps, and some other hills in epcot, and of course AK. I keep my speed the same as my DH, who is 6 ft tall and has a good stride.

People need to let go of things that are beyond their control, like speed of someone else's scooter!! I have seen people running in the parks, and plow over people. I have seen others in ECV's run over other people as well. I go about my business and not let it ruin my vacation, unless it happens to me. I have been plowed into by a guy walking out of MK and almost knocked over because he wanted to go faster than the crowd. Why aren't people griping about those kinds of people? These threads are getting very old real quick. One bad driver gives all of us a bad name, it's not true. Not by a long shot. So please, start ranting about other things, us ECV people are over the bashing from one clueless person, or one not so courtous ECV user!!! Move on with your life, please!!

 

[saffsmom]

Simply put, because able bodied people can go faster than a walk if they want (jog or run) so the option to move faster is made available to ECV users too.

Neither foot traffic nor ECV users should be charging around at full capable speed all the time. You use it when you need it.

exactly

 

[aussieGeorge68]

I agree round 3. Why can't people leave ECV's alone and go about their own life being greatful that they don't have to use one in daily life? I have a power chair, and top speed is 5 mph. Do I use that in the parks, not all the time. It's needed to go up the monorail ramps, and some other hills in epcot, and of course AK. I keep my speed the same as my DH, who is 6 ft tall and has a good stride.

People need to let go of things that are beyond their control, like speed of someone else's scooter!! I have seen people running in the parks, and plow over people. I have seen others in ECV's run over other people as well. I go about my business and not let it ruin my vacation, unless it happens to me. I have been plowed into by a guy walking out of MK and almost knocked over because he wanted to go faster than the crowd. Why aren't people griping about those kinds of people? These threads are getting very old real quick. One bad driver gives all of us a bad name, it's not true. Not by a long shot. So please, start ranting about other things, us ECV people are over the bashing from one clueless person, or one not so courtous ECV user!!! Move on with your life, please!!

Why can't people leave ECV's alone?

I was not going to comment too much but my son got hurt twice by these things during our DL/WDW trip four years ago, I would hate to see an ECV going 9kph. Getting jostled by another human running through the crowd is not the same as having one of these things plowing into your ankle. No the only time anyone in our party was hurt in a Disney park was by an ECV.

Remember to report any bad behaviour by ECV drivers to Disney Security, especially if they hurt a child.

 

[bouncycat]

Why can't people leave ECV's alone?

I was not going to comment too much but my son got hurt twice by these things during our DL/WDW trip four years ago, I would hate to see an ECV going 9kph. Getting jostled by another human running through the crowd is not the same as having one of these things plowing into your ankle. No the only time anyone in our party was hurt in a Disney park was by an ECV.

Remember to report any bad behaviour by ECV drivers to Disney Security, especially if they hurt a child.

Not the same? Well George, it is when the person getting plowed into was only kept from being knocked to the ground by a 19 year old nephew who happened to have quick reflexes and CAUGHT me. The guy that plowed into me drew tears, because I have Muscular Dystrophy in my shoulders, and of course he got me in the shoulder as he was bull dozing his way thru the crowd.

The only people I have run into with my chair have been people who walked in front of my trying to get somewhere before I do....God forbid someone has to wait 2 extra seconds while I get my butt up and onto the ride. That's how people are at the parks....they think they need to get somewhere quicker than me because I may slow them up getting on the ride. I see it ALL the time, I'm at Disney at least twice a week, and I'm always in my chair.

There's ALWAYS gonna be bad apples to ruin everything, so don't let one bad apple ruin your whole vacation. You may have encountered a novice driver who doesn't need a chair in everyday life. I use my chair quite a bit, not full time, but now after the bull dozing incident, I do use it all the time at Disney. I am safer from other walkers that way. So, it goes both directions. Still think it's not the same? My shoulders come disclocated at the slightest bump. Do you know how painful that is?

I've said it before in other ECV threads, EVERYONE has an "ECV ran into me" story. That doesn't mean that it was me, or anyone else on here, but we're always the ones flamed for mentioning we are in a chair. I see it all the time. 9 times out of 10 the accidents that happen are from people in the rented chairs. Some people rent their scooters so they don't have to have the hassle of going on a plane with their own chair, which is fine. Not everyone in a rented scooter is a novice, but out of all the incidents I've witnessed, 90% of the time it was with a rental. You can tell a rental from one's own chair. Disney ECV's are obvious, and those rented from outside companies have the advertisement all over it.

Also, Kids run away from their parents cause they are excited, they're in Disney, they don't think to look where they're running to....and BAM. That's when they get hit. I have to constantly scan the area, and try to anticipate what people are going to do so I can have time to react. Luckily my hands aren't too bad off yet with the MD that it effects my ability to handle the joystick on my chair.

So yea, go ahead and report to Disney security, see what they say. Make sure you have a good description on the person on the ECV, cause you know there's 100's of them in the park in any given day. Should we also report how many times my son or hubby have been clipped my strollers? That's the same as getting hit with an ECV as well. My son has been badly hurt by strollers.

Bottom line, people need to worry about their own vacation, their own family, and LOOK where you're going. Occasionally, look down, to see what you might run into down by your feet. I've been hit in my chair when it was turned OFF...a lady stepped back, and BAM, right into me. I was a foot and a half behind her. She didn't look, just stepped back. How is that my fault? Anyways, yea, these things can do some damage, but not every person on an ECV or power chair is gonna run you over.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Ok, as stated, they need to get up a hill. They need to get away from a creep, chase after a kid, get out of a fire, get to food because their blood sugar is dropping, hurry to pick up their mom...whatever!

Sometimes people want or need to go faster than average. Obviously, you feel this is a perk for only people who can walk on their own and not for the lowly wheelchair-bound people.

Too bad, so sad, sucks for you.

I have to agree here. There are times that people need to go faster.. and it could be a child at home in need of their mom due to sugar dropping or having to use the bathroom, or a bug on them.. or what ever the reason may be.

At Disney though, I cannot see them going this fast.. that is dangerous for all involved.. if someone ran out in front of them, they would not be able to stop on time and both could end up hurt.. especially if it were a child who ran out in front of the chair.. and the way children are at Disney, that can very well happen.....

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Why can't people leave ECV's alone?

I was not going to comment too much but my son got hurt twice by these things during our DL/WDW trip four years ago, I would hate to see an ECV going 9kph. Getting jostled by another human running through the crowd is not the same as having one of these things plowing into your ankle. No the only time anyone in our party was hurt in a Disney park was by an ECV.

Remember to report any bad behaviour by ECV drivers to Disney Security, especially if they hurt a child.

I am not in a chair, but I will tell you you are wrong as far as walkers bumping.. I have had Rotator Cuff surgery on both of my arms. I went to the Disney parks 8 weeks after surgery with the doc's permission. I wore my sling... and the massive crowds, people bumping into me.. yes, that hurt! It hurt very very much. I have also been clipped in the back of the ankle by a wheelchair, which the woman did do it on purpose to move up and force me out of where I was standing (this was years ago). I was bleeding .. I have experienced both.. do you know when I left the park after being bumped in the arm, I had to take my pain meds.. After getting hit by the chair, I just washed my ankle and got a band aid.. but was ok as far as the pain scale went. So you never know what shape a person is in when they are "just bumped" by even a walker... they can be just as dangerous.. and so are strollers... they hurt as well..

I do agree though, I don't want to see the chairs going super fast either.. that you are correct on. .they can hurt a child, and they can hurt an adult.. I was lucky..

 

[HHSTigerFan]

The average person walks 2 mph? Really?

I walk 4 miles each night, just got back and it took be 1 hour and 2 minutes and thats a nice steady pace for me, have done it as quickly as 57 minutes and has NEVER taken me more than 1:10.. so if I am walking 4 mph and could run 8 mph (thought for maybe about 12 seconds tops), why can't an ECV go 4.5?

 

[aussieGeorge68]

Not the same? Well George, it is when the person getting plowed into was only kept from being knocked to the ground by a 19 year old nephew who happened to have quick reflexes and CAUGHT me. The guy that plowed into me drew tears, because I have Muscular Dystrophy in my shoulders, and of course he got me in the shoulder as he was bull dozing his way thru the crowd.

The only people I have run into with my chair have been people who walked in front of my trying to get somewhere before I do....God forbid someone has to wait 2 extra seconds while I get my butt up and onto the ride. That's how people are at the parks....they think they need to get somewhere quicker than me because I may slow them up getting on the ride. I see it ALL the time, I'm at Disney at least twice a week, and I'm always in my chair.

There's ALWAYS gonna be bad apples to ruin everything, so don't let one bad apple ruin your whole vacation. You may have encountered a novice driver who doesn't need a chair in everyday life. I use my chair quite a bit, not full time, but now after the bull dozing incident, I do use it all the time at Disney. I am safer from other walkers that way. So, it goes both directions. Still think it's not the same? My shoulders come disclocated at the slightest bump. Do you know how painful that is?

I've said it before in other ECV threads, EVERYONE has an "ECV ran into me" story. That doesn't mean that it was me, or anyone else on here, but we're always the ones flamed for mentioning we are in a chair. I see it all the time. 9 times out of 10 the accidents that happen are from people in the rented chairs. Some people rent their scooters so they don't have to have the hassle of going on a plane with their own chair, which is fine. Not everyone in a rented scooter is a novice, but out of all the incidents I've witnessed, 90% of the time it was with a rental. You can tell a rental from one's own chair. Disney ECV's are obvious, and those rented from outside companies have the advertisement all over it.

Also, Kids run away from their parents cause they are excited, they're in Disney, they don't think to look where they're running to....and BAM. That's when they get hit. I have to constantly scan the area, and try to anticipate what people are going to do so I can have time to react. Luckily my hands aren't too bad off yet with the MD that it effects my ability to handle the joystick on my chair.

So yea, go ahead and report to Disney security, see what they say. Make sure you have a good description on the person on the ECV, cause you know there's 100's of them in the park in any given day. Should we also report how many times my son or hubby have been clipped my strollers? That's the same as getting hit with an ECV as well. My son has been badly hurt by strollers.

Bottom line, people need to worry about their own vacation, their own family, and LOOK where you're going. Occasionally, look down, to see what you might run into down by your feet. I've been hit in my chair when it was turned OFF...a lady stepped back, and BAM, right into me. I was a foot and a half behind her. She didn't look, just stepped back. How is that my fault? Anyways, yea, these things can do some damage, but not every person on an ECV or power chair is gonna run you over.

Firstly my son did not run off, he was holding my hand both times when he was hit by an ECV from behind. Children walk slow, too slow for some ECV operators, with their 9 kph machines that they use as battering rams.

I am sorry that you were injured at the parks as well, but that does not mean we have to put children and others at risk by allowing ECVs driven by inexperienced drivers capable of 9kph into a crowded theme park.

Strollers can't be compared to ECVs, getting hit by a stroller with a child in it, is not like getting hit by a 9kph ECV with an obese driver. A significant percentage of the ECVs have a combined weight well over the 100kg (220 pound) mark.

I have no problem at all with the speed of personal wheel chairs. Experienced Wheel Chair operators tend to drive very well.

 

[Wadecool]

 

[TowMater92]

...and I quote from a popular scooter rental company: "And with a cruising range of 18 miles and maximum speed of 4.5 MPH, you will have no problem getting round the theme parks and other Orlando attractions."

Why would a scotter or ECV ever need to travel that fast?

At a good clip, a very motivated walker can maintain 3MPH, while the average walker is closer to 2MPH. A woman at my office has transitioned to an ECV and outpaces co-workers by a two to one rate in hallways, and -- to be truthful -- she has her vehicle loaded down to some degree.

Now, I'm not suggesting that ECVs are all zooming about at top speed, but -- just the same as walkers -- impatience and a sense of urgency can both hit. The fact is, ECVs are capable of speeds nearly one-half that of the average marathon runner, but without the agility and stopping ability of a runner.

The question that should be at the heart of the ongoing and often testy ECV vs. walkers debate is: why so fast? Why any faster than the average walker?

Curious to have your thoughts.

You do realize that at 4 1/2 miles per hour is a 13 min 33 second mile. That is not fast. The average walking speed is not 2 miles per hour it is 3.1 miles per hour so going 4 1/2 miles per our is a fast walk.

Also the person that said the extra speed is for going up hills is correct. No it is not the mountains but there still are hills. Walk from the parking lot at the BW to the main entrance or to and from any Epcot resort to the international gate at Epcot. It is an electric motor a small incline effects your speed a lot.

Why is this an issue anyways I've never had a problem with ECV's now strollers are a different story.

 

[ttintagel]

Firstly my son did not run off, he was holding my hand both times when he was hit by an ECV from behind. .

Yeah, I've seen plenty of parents pull their children into the path of ECV's that don't have time to stop. I always feel sorry for the kids because their parents, who ought to know better, put them in that situation.

Even the most experienced operator with the best reflexes can't change the laws of physics.

 

[bouncycat]

Firstly my son did not run off, he was holding my hand both times when he was hit by an ECV from behind. Children walk slow, too slow for some ECV operators, with their 9 kph machines that they use as battering rams.

I am sorry that you were injured at the parks as well, but that does not mean we have to put children and others at risk by allowing ECVs driven by inexperienced drivers capable of 9kph into a crowded theme park.

Strollers can't be compared to ECVs, getting hit by a stroller with a child in it, is not like getting hit by a 9kph ECV with an obese driver. A significant percentage of the ECVs have a combined weight well over the 100kg (220 pound) mark.

I have no problem at all with the speed of personal wheel chairs. Experienced Wheel Chair operators tend to drive very well.

Most people, especially if you read this whole thread, say that they don't go as fast as their ECV or chair lets them go. Just because it can, doesn't mean that people will go that fast. Do some people? Sure. That's the inexperienced people. Your son was probably a tragic accident by one of those types of people. They're everywhere, it's not gonna stop from happening, even if you do report it to security. There's this thing in America called the ADA, yea, that protects people with disabilities. accidents will happen, but please don't put us all in the same category as the person who hit your son. As I said before, and quite a bit, everyone has an "ECV hit me" Story, that doesn't mean that we're all bad. One bad apple always ruins it for everyone else. But, ECV's and scooters are in the parks to stay. I use my full throttle when going up ramps, like to the monorail and such. There is times when it's needed for more power. So it's not gonna go away no matter how much you gripe.

Yeah, I've seen plenty of parents pull their children into the path of ECV's that don't have time to stop. I always feel sorry for the kids because their parents, who ought to know better, put them in that situation.

Even the most experienced operator with the best reflexes can't change the laws of physics.

I have too, and thanks, very well said!!! I have yet to hit a small child. Have had to stop or swerve from them way too many times to count. Children will do what they want to do, even when holding on to a parent's hand, a child may not walk a straight line. That's when they can get accidentally hit or parents drag them along. Seen that too many times as well.

 

[NotUrsula]

I took arm rest, mirror, and basket off. Trimmed of excess body parts. Took extra padding out of seat...... Hoping to hit that 4.7 mark. jk... Since I am with family and friends i just adjust speed to them. Like others have said the extra is for the hills and ramps


Pimp my scooter

Amateur.

THIS is a pimped scooter: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ooter-Plumber-converts-vehicle-hit-69mph.html
(BTW, note where the article says that the avg. speed of a mobility scooter is 8 mph. Presumably the UK average.)

All jokes aside, one day in Philharmagic I saw someone leaving the theatre on this scooter (it had been fitted with bicycle training wheels ): http://www.currietech.com/currie-technologies-ezip-750-electric-scooter.php (That scooter's top speed is 15 mph.) I was very surprised that it had been allowed into the park, but apparently it was not actually against the rules.

 

[Carnator]

wow,, can't believe that was let in the parks

 

[bouncycat]

Amateur.

THIS is a pimped scooter: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ooter-Plumber-converts-vehicle-hit-69mph.html
(BTW, note where the article says that the avg. speed of a mobility scooter is 8 mph. Presumably the UK average.)

All jokes aside, one day in Philharmagic I saw someone leaving the theatre on this scooter (it had been fitted with bicycle training wheels ): http://www.currietech.com/currie-technologies-ezip-750-electric-scooter.php (That scooter's top speed is 15 mph.) I was very surprised that it had been allowed into the park, but apparently it was not actually against the rules.

Yikes!!! That's all I gotta say about those!! 69mph and the other 2 wheeled scooter isn't really what a person with mobility issues would need. I know I can't go fast on mine without hurting myself with jerky movements. That's just crazy!!!

I'm in a group with others with my type of MD on facebook, and we all have interesting ways of "pimping our rides" One person had their scooter painted camoflauge, and for me, I have mine painted in Tigger stripes!! My powerchair AND my AFO leg braces!!

 

[justtobeme2]

Look Disney can be crowded and lots of bumping and jostling even for the most careful. As I stated before I have been bloodied many times from strollers and had my shoe broken it's just the nature of having tons of people in limited space. Being considerate is a different issue and NOT trying to hurt someone is the key to me. I know that most of the heel stroller issues weren't intentional but I know that one was.

I bumped into a guy once (on my ecv) when he stopped abruptly in front of me. I still felt bad (it's why I remember it).

Everyone should have a little patience and understanding. Be kind to each other.