2023 DVC Dues:

[havoc315]

​

Resort	2022 Dues	2023 Dues	Increase
Animal Kingdom Villas	$8.2365	$8.8099	+6.96%
Aulani	$8.6739	$9.1424	+5.40%
Aulani Subsidized	$6.5205	$6.8727	+5.40%
Bay Lake Tower	$7.0826	$7.4255	+4.84%
Beach Club Villas	$7.5362	$8.1655	+8.35%
BoardWalk Villas	$8.0802	$8.5309	+5.58%
Boulder Ridge	$8.1469	$8.5110	+4.47%
Copper Creek Villas	$7.6020	$7.9203	+4.19%
Grand Californian	$7.4824	$8.0409	+7.46%
Grand Floridian	$7.0077	$7.3332	+4.64%
Hilton Head	$10.0707	$10.7305	+6.55%
Old Key West	$8.8063	$9.3570	+6.25%
Polynesian	$7.3859	$7.9475	+8.04%
Riviera	$8.3840	$8.5049	+1.81%
Saratoga Springs	$7.3287	$7.8622	+7.28%
Vero Beach	$11.9405	$12.8503	+7.62%
Vero Beach Subsidized	$9.4100	$10.1298	+7.65%

From - https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program/fin...isney-vacation-club-2023-annual-dues-released

Some very big increases, especially Poly, Vero Beach, and Beach Club Villas.

I'll note that 2 years ago, people were saying, "The dues at Riviera are so high..."
But it appears they basically gave themselves cushion room with initially setting Riviera dues, as they have barely increased. Virtually no increase 2021 to 2022, and only 1.8% from 2022 to 2023.
In fact, among WDW resorts, dues rankings are now:

1. OKW - $9.36
2. AKV -- $8.81
3. BWV - $8.53
4. BRV - $8.51
5. RIV - $8.50
6. BCV - $8.17
7. Poly - $7.95
8. CCV- $7.92
9. SSR - $7.86
10. BLT - $7.43
11. GFV - $7.33

So now Riviera is right in the middle. OKW stands out as particularly high. 7 out of 11 WDW resorts fall between $7.86 and $8.51.
GFV and BLT are still "bargains" in dues, but not by much. About $0.75 per point less than the median....

 

[RivShore]

Thanks for that info!

And wow, all those Never Rivieras said over and over again that the fees are so high and would be high forever, one of the many reasons they hated that horrible resort.

 

[havoc315]

Thanks for that info!

And wow, all those Never Rivieras said over and over again that the fees are so high and would be high forever, one of the many reasons they hated that horrible resort.

"Never Riviera" people made a few pronouncements... like GFV expansion would be so popular, that it would sell out in just 2 months, even if priced much higher than Riviera..
That nobody would ever buy Riviera re-sale (though the reported resale prices have help pretty consistently as proportion of direct price).

 

[NeutralNovice]

I wonder if the relatively low dues increase for BLT will mean that they will not start renovation for 2023, which is unfortunate, if true.

 

[shairpdrh]

​

I'll note that 2 years ago, people were saying, "The dues at Riviera are so high..."
But it appears they basically gave themselves cushion room with initially setting Riviera dues, as they have barely increased. Virtually no increase 2021 to 2022, and only 1.8% from 2022 to 2023.
In fact, among WDW resorts, dues rankings are now:

So now Riviera is right in the middle. OKW stands out as particularly high. 7 out of 11 WDW resorts fall between $7.86 and $8.51.
GFV and BLT are still "bargains" in dues, but not by much. About $0.75 per point less than the median....

Thank you! I think many said that about Copper Creek when it opened, too. And now dues are higher at our other home (Poly). I think you are right about how they set new resort dues.

 

[Lumpy1106]

I wonder if the relatively low dues increase for BLT will mean that they will not start renovation for 2023, which is unfortunate, if true.

My theory; the BLT structure just needs less maintenance. It's a steel framed high-rise - there's no wood to rot, no shingles to replace. It has very little in the way of landscaping. The pool is not terribly ornate. The furniture will see the same wear-and-tear as everywhere else (and IME - it is). I would really like to see an update, but I think BLT dues will always be lower all things considered.

 

[havoc315]

My theory; the BLT structure just needs less maintenance. It's a steel framed high-rise - there's no wood to rot, no shingles to replace. It has very little in the way of landscaping. The pool is not terribly ornate. The furniture will see the same wear-and-tear as everywhere else (and IME - it is). I would really like to see an update, but I think BLT dues will always be lower all things considered.

I'll say: Maybe. The nature of the design may indeed contribute to lower maintenance costs.
But there is also the fact that it's still on the newer side.
BLT, RIV and GFV are the 3 newest constructions and among the resorts seeing the smallest increases.

 

[gmi3804]

BLT's roof is among the smallest (if not THE smallest) of all the DVC resorts. Roof maintenance is a huge part of a budget.

 

[paults]

Thank you for this wonderful news. Just kidding. Get it while you can DVC.

 

[tjkraz]

Some amount of credit is always appreciated. Original source for the exact chart which was copied & pasted above:

https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program/fin...isney-vacation-club-2023-annual-dues-released

 

[havoc315]

Some amount of credit is always appreciated. Original source for the exact chart which was copied & pasted above:

https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program/fin...isney-vacation-club-2023-annual-dues-released

Added link to original post.

 

[havoc315]

The inverse relationship between dues and point charts, which is not always appreciated:

Housekeeping and maintenance costs are likely fairly similar on a per room basis.
Let's say it costs $1000 to keep up a room per week. (for demonstration, doesn't matter if it's $1000 per week, per month, per year).
If that room is a studio at OKW for 92 points for the week -- Then the "dues" are $10.80 per point.
If that room is a studio at GFV for 139 points, then the "dues" are only $7.19 per point..

Some costs are unique to a resort, like transportation or the animals at AKV. But for categories that should be fairly consistent across resorts, high point charts actually should translate into relatively lower dues.

The alignment isn't perfect, as there are other factors affecting dues as well.

 

[DonMacGregor]

My theory; the BLT structure just needs less maintenance. It's a steel framed high-rise - there's no wood to rot, no shingles to replace. It has very little in the way of landscaping. The pool is not terribly ornate. The furniture will see the same wear-and-tear as everywhere else (and IME - it is). I would really like to see an update, but I think BLT dues will always be lower all things considered.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

 

[RoseGold]

BLT is really looking like a good buy right now, all around.

 

[Straulin]

What tends to drive the size of the increases? Obviously inflation…

I assume property damage will always come into play if there is any from weather.

Do upcoming refurbs cause a jump?

What else?

 

[tjkraz]

What tends to drive the size of the increases? Obviously inflation…

I assume property damage will always come into play if there is any from weather.

Do upcoming refurbs cause a jump?

What else?

Reasons vary and it's all in the details.

All things being equal, refurbs shouldn't drive up dues. Those dollars are budgeted annually as part of capital improvements, with members already paying for projects which won't occur for a decade or more. But increases in labor costs (contractors) or material costs can make a near-term refurb more expensive than budgeted.

Property taxes have proven rather volatile in recent years. That can drive up dues.

And any of the categories in the operating expenses can have an impact. Utility prices, fuel prices, insurance rates, etc. Staff wages and benefits supposedly make up 75% of the operating costs so compensation will have a dramatic impact. A few years ago Disney agreed to union contracts which took the pay scale to a starting $15 per hour over the span of 4-5 years. That resulted in steady increases in wage-related categories.

Disney is in the midst of new contract negotiations with some unions which seem likely to drive pay higher. It's one of those topics where many people hate rising dues, yet also want Disney to hire and retain high quality workers and pay "living wages." I'm not going to claim that there aren't areas where Disney could subtly manipulate dues and policies to their advantage. But aside from the prescribed management fee, DVC dues aren't a profit center for Disney. The vast majority of the dollars we pay go directly to the services and amenities which are part of the resort experience.

 

[hglenn]

Reasons vary and it's all in the details.

All things being equal, refurbs shouldn't drive up dues. Those dollars are budgeted annually as part of capital improvements, with members already paying for projects which won't occur for a decade or more. But increases in labor costs (contractors) or material costs can make a near-term refurb more expensive than budgeted.

Property taxes have proven rather volatile in recent years. That can drive up dues.

And any of the categories in the operating expenses can have an impact. Utility prices, fuel prices, insurance rates, etc. Staff wages and benefits supposedly make up 75% of the operating costs so compensation will have a dramatic impact. A few years ago Disney agreed to union contracts which took the pay scale to a starting $15 per hour over the span of 4-5 years. That resulted in steady increases in wage-related categories.

Disney is in the midst of new contract negotiations with some unions which seem likely to drive pay higher. It's one of those topics where many people hate rising dues, yet also want Disney to hire and retain high quality workers and pay "living wages." I'm not going to claim that there aren't areas where Disney could subtly manipulate dues and policies to their advantage. But aside from the prescribed management fee, DVC dues aren't a profit center for Disney. The vast majority of the dollars we pay go directly to the services and amenities which are part of the resort experience.

If Reedy Creek goes away or whatever is going on with that... will that have an impact on taxes, too? Assuming yes?

 

[tjkraz]

If Reedy Creek goes away or whatever is going on with that... will that have an impact on taxes, too? Assuming yes?

To some degree, yes.

Property values are set by Orange and Osceola counties. Disney can question / negotiate those values like any other property holder, but ultimately it's out of their hands. Once the value is determined, millage rates are applied by local municipalities to calculate the full tax debt. Disney property taxes help pay for things like Orlando area schools and libraries. That is completely independent of RCID.

But RCID applies its own millages for its own services like road maintenance, fire and rescue services, trash collection, etc. Similar to the DVC dues themselves, Reedy Creek (or its replacement) can only bill residents for services they provide. And Disney itself is a much larger property owner than the DVC resorts, meaning that any new dollars spent will cost Disney much more than DVC owners.

Initially Desantis claimed he was dissolving RCID, which would have shifted a lot of the burden to other taxpayers and could have actually lowered Disney taxes. More recently his administration has promoted a plan of creating a replacement entity for RCID with some government presence. There was an article about a month ago in Variety claiming that one unresolved issue was exactly who would have the controlling votes: Disney or Florida. Stay tuned.

If you think about the many road projects Disney has undertaken in recent years: The Disney Springs road projects, the reconfiguration of MK entrance, DHS entrance, probably some of the solar farms...all funded thru RCID. It's hard to imagine a state-controlled RCID would invest even more on similar projects across the Disney property. Maybe they raise the budget for fire or other services. Still, any budget increase for RCID would be shared by Disney, which would pay a much greater share via its extensive land holdings in the theme parks, water parks, hotels, Disney Springs, etc.

 

[havoc315]

If Reedy Creek goes away or whatever is going on with that... will that have an impact on taxes, too? Assuming yes?

Reedy Creek won't go away. Maybe reconfigured slightly, that's it.

But if it really was dissolved -- Then taxes would effectively go down.

Right now, Disney already pays property taxes but they maintain all their own internal roads and infrastructure.
If Reedy Creek goes away, Disney stops paying for their own internal roads and infrastructure. That now gets subsidized by the surrounding counties.
Sure, they could raise taxes on Disney but then they would also have to raise taxes on all the residents of Orange County.
Either way -- Disney's costs actually go down if they lose Reedy Creek. (Dissolution of Reedy Creek would actually save Disney A LOT of money, but it would also take away a lot of the control they have over the land).

 

[havoc315]

To some degree, yes.

Property values are set by Orange and Osceola counties. Disney can question / negotiate those values like any other property holder, but ultimately it's out of their hands. Once the value is determined, millage rates are applied by local municipalities to calculate the full tax debt. Disney property taxes help pay for things like Orlando area schools and libraries. That is completely independent of RCID.

But RCID applies its own millages for its own services like road maintenance, fire and rescue services, trash collection, etc. Similar to the DVC dues themselves, Reedy Creek (or its replacement) can only bill residents for services they provide. And Disney itself is a much larger property owner than the DVC resorts, meaning that any new dollars spent will cost Disney much more than DVC owners.

Initially Desantis claimed he was dissolving RCID, which would have shifted a lot of the burden to other taxpayers and could have actually lowered Disney taxes. More recently his administration has promoted a plan of creating a replacement entity for RCID with some government presence. There was an article about a month ago in Variety claiming that one unresolved issue was exactly who would have the controlling votes: Disney or Florida. Stay tuned.

If you think about the many road projects Disney has undertaken in recent years: The Disney Springs road projects, the reconfiguration of MK entrance, DHS entrance, probably some of the solar farms...all funded thru RCID. It's hard to imagine a state-controlled RCID would invest even more on similar projects across the Disney property. Maybe they raise the budget for fire or other services. Still, any budget increase for RCID would be shared by Disney, which would pay a much greater share via its extensive land holdings in the theme parks, water parks, hotels, Disney Springs, etc.

And if RCID was truly dissolved -- Those budget increases would also be shared with all the residents of Orange County. Disney's costs would ultimate go down, as now taxpayers would have to subsidize those projects. (Though, that would also make it much harder for Disney to actually get such projects done).

Disney will "go along" with a cosmetic re-configuration of the RCID... give the Governor 1 or 2 powerless members of the board. Remove some stuff from their charter, like the authority to build a nuclear power plant.
If there are major changes that actually impact Disney's operations, I would expect Disney to go ahead and challenge it in court -- And likely win.

Disney is on strong legal grounds to fight the dissolution of the RCID. But they are hoping to resolve it more quietly without ruffling feathers. They want to avoid partisan politics most of the time.