2021 Point Reallocation

[Yinn]

Of course, it was already impossible to reserve Value Studios at AKV anyway. DID THEY REALLY HAVE TO LOWER THE COST OF VALUE STUDIOS TO PERSUADE PEOPLE TO USE THEM?

Make no mistake about it. THE LOWERING OF THE COST OF VALUE STUDIOS IN SEPTEMBER TO 7 POINTS PER DAY IS ENTIRELY, 100% A PROMOTIONAL 'SALES' MOVE. Period.

This also makes me suspicious of whether they are really making any attempt at all to balance the point, taking certain amounts from some seasons and transferring them to other season. ARE THE TOTAL POINTS REMAINING THE SAME, when you factor in the number of days in each season, the number of rooms of all kinds, that are available, and the point cost for those rooms. DOES EVERYTHING BALANCE?

I read so many comments like that before I bought. Buy more points, don't expect to be able to book; even if you walk.

Since I bought, I grabbed a 1BR Value in Aug/Sept - at 10 months. I also just grabbed the Value studio at 11 months - a week after it opened actually. I mean, maybe it's competitive; but I was expecting to see it gone Day 1 (especially in Nov) based on these comments.

Other than that, my PVB guaranteed week was guaranteed at 185 points/week and it looks like 2021 will end up costing 239 points. That's a win in my book!

 

[Sandisw]

My guaranteed week went from costing about 185-190 on average to costing 235-240 points. It’s a win in my book!!


I read so many comments like that before I bought. Buy more points, don't expect to be able to book; even if you walk.

Since I bought, I grabbed a 1BR Value in Aug/Sept - at 10 months. I also just grabbed the Value studio at 11 months - a week after it opened actually. I mean, maybe it's competitive; but I was expecting to see it gone Day 1 (especially in Nov) based on these comments.

Other than that, my PVB guaranteed week was guaranteed at 185 points/week and it looks like 2021 will end up costing 239 points. That's a win in my book!

So, can you explain more how that works? I don’t really understand the guaranteed week, and the 10% cost.

Since your week is now more points, you still get it for the original point cost, right?

 

[anomamatt]

So, can you explain more how that works? I don’t really understand the guaranteed week, and the 10% cost.

Since your week is now more points, you still get it for the original point cost, right?

Guaranteed weeks are deeded such that you get your week for the points indicated, regardless of future point reallocations.

It will be interesting to see how they change the fixed week point charts.

 

[DizneyLizzy]

We usually do our DVC trips mid to late June. We like using our DVC points to go that month because even though the points are high, demand is low, there's no pressure to book at 11 months, and we've always been able to book wherever we want at the 7 month mark. Looks like this change barely lowers the points for that time, which I'm fine with. We like trying out all of the resorts, and are find paying a few extra points to do so. The five nights we spent in a Bay Lake Standard 1 bedroom last summer would be 1 point less per night in 2021. Two nights we spent in an OKW 1 bedroom in late June also went down 1 point per night for our dates from 2019 to 2021. Not really enough to sway demand. LOL. But maybe they're using the little shifts to help to balance out the point increases for fall.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

Guaranteed weeks are deeded such that you get your week for the points indicated, regardless of future point reallocations.

It will be interesting to see how they change the fixed week point charts.

I'd be pretty pissed if I purchased a guaranteed week that cost 240 points and 2 weeks after the resort opened, it now would only cost 190 points. That's 50 * 188 = $9,400 I didn't have to spend.

It would be one thing if the reallocation happened 5 years down the road. That's the breaks. But two weeks? I'd be trashing DVC left, right, and centre.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I'd be pretty pissed if I purchased a guaranteed week that cost 240 points and 2 weeks after the resort opened, it now would only cost 190 points. That's 50 * 188 = $9,400 I didn't have to spend.

It would be one thing if the reallocation happened 5 years down the road. That's the breaks. But two weeks? I'd be trashing DVC left, right, and centre.

It would be a tough one. DVC does give you the full number of points you purchased though if you cancel and do not use that week. In most cases people would be able to rebook for the lower points but it just wouldn't be automatic anymore.

 

[Yinn]

So, can you explain more how that works? I don’t really understand the guaranteed week, and the 10% cost.

Since your week is now more points, you still get it for the original point cost, right?

This is all my understanding based on my research, conversations with member services etc, so hopefully it's correct. I've found that not many (including DVD) fully understand guaranteed weeks.

I'm deeded to Week 52 for PVB. At the time the original owner bought, it cost 187 points for that week. They tack on a 10% cost & point premium to guarantee that week. In doing so, the contract I have is guaranteed Week 52 at a specific unit - automatically reserved. It's very much like a traditional timeshare. So regardless of what happens with the points charts; I will always be guaranteed Week 52 at PVB without needing to add points. The bonus is that I have the ability to opt out. If for any reason I do not want that week; I can opt out of my reservation and I would be given 206 points to use just as any other contract.

After seeing last year's allocation debacle, the guaranteed week was a big plus in anticipating the cost might go up. Just looking at the cost of that week at a point basis means my contract is worth about 16% more from a rental perspective alone...assuming I can be convinced to not use it. But that only helps if I rent my guaranteed week. If I convert it to points, it was my understanding I still end up with 206 points.

Guaranteed weeks are deeded such that you get your week for the points indicated, regardless of future point reallocations.

It will be interesting to see how they change the fixed week point charts.

What do you mean by fixed week points charts changing? It was my understanding that along with the guaranteed week; the points are also guaranteed. Meaning, even though it now costs 239 points to rent that week; I do not get 239 points in return and would still only get the 206. In the same manner if they went down, I would not get less. Are you saying that's not the case?

 

[Anthony Vito]

Guaranteed weeks are deeded such that you get your week for the points indicated, regardless of future point reallocations.

It will be interesting to see how they change the fixed week point charts.

I've been wondering what will happen with the fixed week costs for Riviera and when they will change/what point chart they'll use to calculate depending on when it's purchased. When we got our Copper Creek guaranteed week earlier this year (1st week of December, so no change to the premium this round), I almost got the feeling they just looked at the point chart for that week and manually calculated the 10% premium.

 

[JETSDAD]

What do you mean by fixed week points charts changing? It was my understanding that along with the guaranteed week; the points are also guaranteed. Meaning, even though it now costs 239 points to rent that week; I do not get 239 points in return and would still only get the 206. In the same manner if they went down, I would not get less. Are you saying that's not the case?

I believe @anomamatt is referring to the charts for the current sale of fixed weeks. Since the point requirements have already changed for Riviera will they be basing the guaranteed week on the original charts or the new charts seeing as some GW's have already been sold with the current charts.

 

[crvetter]

I've been wondering what will happen with the fixed week costs for Riviera and when they will change/what point chart they'll use to calculate depending on when it's purchased. When we got our Copper Creek guaranteed week earlier this year (1st week of December, so no change to the premium this round), I almost got the feeling they just looked at the point chart for that week and manually calculated the 10% premium.

That is exactly how they determine the Fixed Week actually they take the Point Chart for the year the resort opens and determined the fixed week, this was held constant but I wonder what they will do with DRR. It actually leads to issues with certain holidays (namely Thanksgiving) that float between two weeks (week 46 and 47) in that for one resort the GW for week 46 is more expensive (CCV) and week 47 is more expensive (DRR) because of where Thanksgiving fell the year the first Point Charts were made to determine the GW costs. It is interesting because 75-80% of the Thanksgiving is week 47 thus if you wanted Thanksgiving most of the time the GW for that was super cheap at CCV because week 47 didn't include thanksgiving when they made the GW costs. Actually DVC didn't know Thanksgiving floated and thought it always stayed in week 46 until I showed them a calendar that it floated and that more often than not (75-80% of the time) the 10% premium wasn't going to be enough for DVC to cover the week 47 most years for CCV, because it will include Thanksgiving something they didn't consider (thus DVC has to use the 2% of points they own to make up that deficit).

 

[Yinn]

That is exactly how they determine the Fixed Week actually they take the Point Chart for the year the resort opens and determined the fixed week, this was held constant but I wonder what they will do with DRR. It actually leads to issues with certain holidays (namely Thanksgiving) that float between two weeks (week 46 and 47) in that for one resort the GW for week 46 is more expensive (CCV) and week 47 is more expensive (DRR) because of where Thanksgiving fell the year the first Point Charts were made to determine the GW costs. It is interesting because 75-80% of the Thanksgiving is week 47 thus if you wanted Thanksgiving most of the time the GW for that was super cheap at CCV because week 47 didn't include thanksgiving when they made the GW costs. Actually DVC didn't know Thanksgiving floated and thought it always stayed in week 46 until I showed them a calendar that it floated and that more often than not (75-80% of the time) the 10% premium wasn't going to be enough for DVC to cover the week 47 most years for CCV, because it will include Thanksgiving something they didn't consider (thus DVC has to use the 2% of points they own to make up that deficit).

My Week 52 is exactly that as well, where some years it will be the most expensive year possible. Other years it will be in the new year and one of the cheapest time's to go. So some years it actually makes sense to cancel and rebook if availability is there as it would cost less points.

 

[crvetter]

My Week 52 is exactly that as well, where some years it will be the most expensive year possible. Other years it will be in the new year and one of the cheapest time's to go. So some years it actually makes sense to cancel and rebook if availability is there as it would cost less points.

Yeah it is a poor design and honestly feel it was something that held DVCMC back from Season Adjustments because they have to make up any shortages in the GW points. So for instance CCV sold week 46 at 128 points and week 47 at 118 points. So week 47 which had Thanksgiving most years was cheaper than the week that normally doesn't. That meant anyone that bought week 47 got a huge deal, especially when you look at the raw cost to book that week is about 118 points so the 10% premium charge wasn't real almost immediately for 80% of the years. So DVC immediately is covering the shortages on those GW's because the 10% buffer is gone right away.

I wonder if these issues are what cause them not to want to raise the first 2 weeks of December too much. For instance VGF sold the max basically for GW those 2 weeks for studios therefore if they truly increase those seasons then DVC has a lot of points they need to take from their 2% to cover.

 

[aoconnor]

Yeah it is a poor design and honestly feel it was something that held DVCMC back from Season Adjustments because they have to make up any shortages in the GW points. So for instance CCV sold week 46 at 128 points and week 47 at 118 points. So week 47 which had Thanksgiving most years was cheaper than the week that normally doesn't. That meant anyone that bought week 47 got a huge deal, especially when you look at the raw cost to book that week is about 118 points so the 10% premium charge wasn't real almost immediately for 80% of the years. So DVC immediately is covering the shortages on those GW's because the 10% buffer is gone right away.

I wonder if these issues are what cause them not to want to raise the first 2 weeks of December too much. For instance VGF sold the max basically for GW those 2 weeks for studios therefore if they truly increase those seasons then DVC has a lot of points they need to take from their 2% to cover.

Interesting, but it still seems de minimis in the scheme of the DVC operation.

Looking at the two most recent resorts, Riviera has sold 29 fixed week deeds so far and CCV sold 27 (just 0.15% of its points). If the average fixed week contract was 200 points and Disney was 'out of the money' by a full 10% on each of them, they'd have to contribute ~1,100 points. Even though DVC rents their points for a pretty penny (often $30+) that's still only like $35k in value lost.

A rounding error compared to the $30+ million in management fees DVCMC collects each year from the dues.

 

[mustinjourney]

did anyone do an analysis of VGC yet? At quick glance...all the points for each season went down for every room type. They did move around a couple weeks, but it looks like it was two weeks as best I could tell. One week (April 11-18) moved down two spots (went from 224 to 141) and one week (Mar. 25-Apr 2) was moved from magic to premiere (194 to 217 weekly points).

Other than a couple other days (Jan 3 and 4 now being uber cheap season), it doesn't look like much changed as far as seasons goes...so if all the days more or less stayed the same, and all of the point requirements went down -- something seems off.

Anyone done an in-depth dive?

 

[aoconnor]

did anyone do an analysis of VGC yet? At quick glance...all the points for each season went down for every room type. They did move around a couple weeks, but it looks like it was two weeks as best I could tell. One week (April 11-18) moved down two spots (went from 224 to 141) and one week (Mar. 25-Apr 2) was moved from magic to premiere (194 to 217 weekly points).

Other than a couple other days (Jan 3 and 4 now being uber cheap season), it doesn't look like much changed as far as seasons goes...so if all the days more or less stayed the same, and all of the point requirements went down -- something seems off.

Anyone done an in-depth dive?

The note on the DVC site announcing the changes said "They do not impact Disney’s Vero Beach Resort, Disney’s Hilton Head Island Resort, The Villas at Disney’s Grand Californian Hotel & Spa and Aulani, Disney Vacation Club Villas."

 

[skier_pete]

So I did a quick survey of 8 of the resorts (AKV, BWV, Poly, BLT, SSR, OKW, WLV/CCV, & Riviera). Changes are fairly consistent across resorts - I'll note where unusual. Note changes are based on a full week.

Sep 1-19 - DOWN Slight drop (5 pts typical, range 0 - 10)
Jan 1-31, Sep 20-30, Dec 1-14 - UP Moderate increase (0-16 pts range, Poly on small end 0-5 pts) Change was generally move from Adventure to Choice season.
Dec 15-23 SAME: Same or dropped up to 5 pts per week
Oct 1-Nov 23 + Nov 27-30: UP Largest rise - 7 - 21 pts per week everywhere. BLT and Riviera saw as much as 30 pts for 2-beds and 60 pts for GV. (points moved from CHOICE to Dream season)
May 1 - June 10: DOWN - Largest drop, down anywhere from 7-38 points. (BWV, BLT with biggest drops)
Feb 1- 15, Aug 16-31: SAME - No change to maybe 5 points in some places
Apr 11 - 30, June 11-Aug 15th DOWN - lots of variation here - range as small as 2-5 pts (BWV, Poly) to 7-18 points (WLV. AKV)
Feb 16-28, Mar 1-27, April 5-10, Nov 24-26: UP - but not much 0 -5 pts, except SSR is 5-12 pts.
Easter/Xmas: UP - small amount mostly 5-12 points. Not a lot but also already high season.

I couldn't be bothered to do a true survey to see if there were lockout shenanigans but I think there was either no shenanigans or it was a very small amount. Generally the shift in points was smallest for studios, bigger for 1-beds and biggest for 2-beds which in an of itself says there was probably no add to lock-out premium.

I don't think Riviera was hurt worse than elsewhere, it just sort of looks that way because points there are already high. The majority of the increase was in fall frenzy season (September 20th - Jan 31st) and the majority of the down was April 11th to August 15th. This is all really really reasonable, because they essentially made the busiest times more points and the less busy time less points.

Make sure to listen to the upcoming DVC show where I'll be talking with the team about these changes!

Perhaps you can toot your own horn on the next show -- and maybe include a brief shout-out to the other 23 dedicated posters that called and/or wrote in to DVC management? I know you all spent a lot of time, and it would be awesome for you all to have some public acknowledgement (even if it is by your anonymous usernames).

I intend to bring this up on the show - though I will be giving Disney credit that they acknowledged that the charts were a poor choice (and probably illegal) and they did not try to re implement.

 

[Sandisw]

This is all my understanding based on my research, conversations with member services etc, so hopefully it's correct. I've found that not many (including DVD) fully understand guaranteed weeks.

I'm deeded to Week 52 for PVB. At the time the original owner bought, it cost 187 points for that week. They tack on a 10% cost & point premium to guarantee that week. In doing so, the contract I have is guaranteed Week 52 at a specific unit - automatically reserved. It's very much like a traditional timeshare. So regardless of what happens with the points charts; I will always be guaranteed Week 52 at PVB without needing to add points. The bonus is that I have the ability to opt out. If for any reason I do not want that week; I can opt out of my reservation and I would be given 206 points to use just as any other contract.

After seeing last year's allocation debacle, the guaranteed week was a big plus in anticipating the cost might go up. Just looking at the cost of that week at a point basis means my contract is worth about 16% more from a rental perspective alone...assuming I can be convinced to not use it. But that only helps if I rent my guaranteed week. If I convert it to points, it was my understanding I still end up with 206 points.



What do you mean by fixed week points charts changing? It was my understanding that along with the guaranteed week; the points are also guaranteed. Meaning, even though it now costs 239 points to rent that week; I do not get 239 points in return and would still only get the 206. In the same manner if they went down, I would not get less. Are you saying that's not the case?

So if you stay with the fixed week, then those extra points you paid for just stay in your account? Or, you only Get to use them if the week is canceled ?

 

[JETSDAD]

The note on the DVC site announcing the changes said "They do not impact Disney’s Vero Beach Resort, Disney’s Hilton Head Island Resort, The Villas at Disney’s Grand Californian Hotel & Spa and Aulani, Disney Vacation Club Villas."

I believe that is just in reference to the added seasons. Points did shift around.

 

[SL6827]

I wonder if these issues are what cause them not to want to raise the first 2 weeks of December too much. For instance VGF sold the max basically for GW those 2 weeks for studios therefore if they truly increase those seasons then DVC has a lot of points they need to take from their 2% to cover.

Probably so. If they sell enough GWs for those weeks in December, they will most likely never raise the point requirements much during that time.

 

[mustinjourney]

The note on the DVC site announcing the changes said "They do not impact Disney’s Vero Beach Resort, Disney’s Hilton Head Island Resort, The Villas at Disney’s Grand Californian Hotel & Spa and Aulani, Disney Vacation Club Villas."

not sure if that is correct though.

Just for the studios -- you have:

2020 2021
129 129
148 141
194 187
224 217


It is similar for the other room types as well -- everything is lower in 2021.