2021 Disney Vacation Club Annual Dues

[Bing Showei]

Anyway, based on all above...we will not get the credit nor will new owners. We still own contracts in the membership we sold those HHI contracts from. But I gather the only way a credit for the HHI taxes would go to us is if we still owned those contracts. Correct?

I've reached out via email to member accounting and may call them Monday when they open, zavandor shared something that does seem to suggest they were crediting back dues in 2012. Whether there has been a change in policy, or I was misinformed in 2017, I'm not sure. I'll report back when I have more information.

If anyone else can add additional data points would be helpful.

 

[sssteele]

We own 700 total points. If my calculations are correct, our monthly payment is increasing about $30. We are pushing $500 a month. That's getting pretty hefty. 300 of our 700 points are at Beach Club (200/100). I might sell the 100 point contract to subsidize the other 600 points. Does anybody know what price Beach Club resales are going for?

 

[kevtlas]

I expect a yearly increase, and have budgeted for 4% per year, which has typically been high. I own at Aulani (subsidized) and SSR, so even with the higher increases for 2021, I'm still within budget so I'm "okay" with the increased dues.

 

[Bing Showei]

Interesting. Not my understanding, so new info for me. Thanks for sharing.

I confirmed with member accounting this morning that owners who acquire a contract on the resale market, irrespective of whether or not they compensated the seller for dues, will not receive any credit adjustments for either tax overestimations, or interestingly, resort closures (she had volunteered this last bit without my prompting - not sure how much to read into that).

At some point in the past, as late as 2012, this was not the case and whoever held the deed indeed received the tax credit.

But it appears at some point between 2012 and 2017, Disney guidance has changed and every transfer of a deed essentially means extra money that Disney pockets.

While on an individual basis this is not significant, given the volume of resale contracts that change hands annually, cumulatively, the tax overestimations due to the membership is not an insignificant amount. This should not be Disney's to keep.

This raises the ethical question of how DVCMC not refunding the seller (original owner) or the buyer (new owner) serves to benefit the membership and calls into question the organizations willingness to quietly change this guidance.

It was suggested that I email member accounting for more information and I've done that, but this is pretty sketchy.

Disney had a process in place to credit the current deed holder and actively made a choice to cease that practice without accounting for where the money goes.

 

[lovin'fl]

I confirmed with member accounting this morning that owners who acquire a contract on the resale market, irrespective of whether or not they compensated the seller for dues, will not receive any credit adjustments for either tax overestimations, or interestingly, resort closures (she had volunteered this last bit without my prompting - not sure how much to read into that).

At some point in the past, as late as 2012, this was not the case and whoever held the deed indeed received the tax credit.

But it appears at some point between 2012 and 2017, Disney guidance has changed and every transfer of a deed essentially means extra money that Disney pockets.

While on an individual basis this is not significant, given the volume of resale contracts that change hands annually, cumulatively, the tax overestimations due to the membership is not an insignificant amount. This should not be Disney's to keep.

This raises the ethical question of how DVCMC not refunding the seller (original owner) or the buyer (new owner) serves to benefit the membership and calls into question the organizations willingness to quietly change this guidance.

It was suggested that I email member accounting for more information and I've done that, but this is pretty sketchy.

Disney had a process in place to credit the current deed holder and actively made a choice to cease that practice without accounting for where the money goes.

Thanks for looking into it. Even as a seller this year, I think the new owners should get the credit. Whoever owns the contract at the time of the billing where credits are applied. That's fair. I think.

 

[Sandisw]

I confirmed with member accounting this morning that owners who acquire a contract on the resale market, irrespective of whether or not they compensated the seller for dues, will not receive any credit adjustments for either tax overestimations, or interestingly, resort closures (she had volunteered this last bit without my prompting - not sure how much to read into that).

At some point in the past, as late as 2012, this was not the case and whoever held the deed indeed received the tax credit.

But it appears at some point between 2012 and 2017, Disney guidance has changed and every transfer of a deed essentially means extra money that Disney pockets.

While on an individual basis this is not significant, given the volume of resale contracts that change hands annually, cumulatively, the tax overestimations due to the membership is not an insignificant amount. This should not be Disney's to keep.

This raises the ethical question of how DVCMC not refunding the seller (original owner) or the buyer (new owner) serves to benefit the membership and calls into question the organizations willingness to quietly change this guidance.

It was suggested that I email member accounting for more information and I've done that, but this is pretty sketchy.

Disney had a process in place to credit the current deed holder and actively made a choice to cease that practice without accounting for where the money goes.

Can you share the email for membership accounting?

 

[Bing Showei]

Can you share the email for membership accounting?

They gave me the standard members@disneyvacationclub.com and said I can also click on the email button on the "Help & Contact" page. I got confirmation of the email receipt but the standard form response warned it could take up to 3 weeks for a response.

 

[Sandisw]

They gave me the standard members@disneyvacationclub.com and said I can also click on the email button on the "Help & Contact" page. I got confirmation of the email receipt but the standard form response warned it could take up to 3 weeks for a response.

Awesome. Just wanted to be sure there was not a special one.

 

[CarolMN]

I confirmed with member accounting this morning that owners who acquire a contract on the resale market, irrespective of whether or not they compensated the seller for dues, will not receive any credit adjustments for either tax overestimations, or interestingly, resort closures (she had volunteered this last bit without my prompting - not sure how much to read into that).

At some point in the past, as late as 2012, this was not the case and whoever held the deed indeed received the tax credit.

But it appears at some point between 2012 and 2017, Disney guidance has changed and every transfer of a deed essentially means extra money that Disney pockets.

While on an individual basis this is not significant, given the volume of resale contracts that change hands annually, cumulatively, the tax overestimations due to the membership is not an insignificant amount. This should not be Disney's to keep.

This raises the ethical question of how DVCMC not refunding the seller (original owner) or the buyer (new owner) serves to benefit the membership and calls into question the organizations willingness to quietly change this guidance.

It was suggested that I email member accounting for more information and I've done that, but this is pretty sketchy.

Disney had a process in place to credit the current deed holder and actively made a choice to cease that practice without accounting for where the money goes.

Appreciate the add'l info. I am most disappointed that DVCMC has taken this tack (but glad to know I wasn't remembering something that never happened).

IMO, this is not an ethical decision, especially as it pertains to taxes. The buyer purchased the seller's interests and should receive any rebate. I cannot see how DVVMC has a claim to overestimates.

 

[Sandisw]

Appreciate the add'l info. I am most disappointed that DVCMC has taken this tack (but glad to know I wasn't remembering something that never happened).

IMO, this is not an ethical decision, especially as it pertains to taxes. The buyer purchased the seller's interests and should receive any rebate. I cannot see how DVVMC has a claim to overestimates.

I want to add that I agree and will definitely be following through with this for my resale contract. Being an owner of the resort for 6 months, I should be entitled to the credit for taxes.

If it’s not listed...which appears it won’t be...then I will take it further to whomever needs to hear that I should be entitled to it as an owner of the resort, even if it is a half years worth of credit.

 

[Lorana]

I want to add that I agree and will definitely be following through with this for my resale contract. Being an owner of the resort for 6 months, I should be entitled to the credit for taxes.

If it’s not listed...which appears it won’t be...then I will take it further to whomever needs to hear that I should be entitled to it as an owner of the resort, even if it is a half years worth of credit.

I will join you in following up on this. I had an AKV contract pass ROFR in December 2019 which closed in January (plus contracts I bought in 2020); I owned the resort for the entire year and paid the seller for dues. I should absolutely qualify for any tax and dues credits.

 

[Ronaldo17]

I want to add that I agree and will definitely be following through with this for my resale contract. Being an owner of the resort for 6 months, I should be entitled to the credit for taxes.

If it’s not listed...which appears it won’t be...then I will take it further to whomever needs to hear that I should be entitled to it as an owner of the resort, even if it is a half years worth of credit.

Thank you, I have owned 2 resale contracts since 2013 and feel that I also should be entitled to any rebates for taxes pertaining to these contracts.after all, I have paid the full dues every year for them
Good luck and please keep us posted .

 

[Bing Showei]

Thank you, I have owned 2 resale contracts since 2013 and feel that I also should be entitled to any rebates for taxes pertaining to these contracts.after all, I have paid the full dues every year for them
Good luck and please keep us posted .

I think it’s worth clarifying as there seems to be some confusion around this.

If you own a resale contract and paid dues on it directly to Disney, you are not impacted and will see all credits that are due to all members regardless of whether you bought resale or direct.

This impacts only new contracts purchased on the resale markets after annual dues were paid for by the previous owner, and only effects credits that would normally be issued when annual dues are charged to you for next year.

For example, if you bought a contract in March, 2020 after 2020 annual dues were already paid by the original contract owner who sold you the contract, any credit due as a result of tax over payment, should be credited towards 2021 dues. However, Disney is taking the position that since you did not pay that extra tax to Disney, you are not entitled to a refund.

This is problematic for two reasons.

One, this was not always Disney’s position. As late as (perhaps later) than 2012, owners were credited for the overpaid taxes if they held the contract when taxes came due again. It’s not uncommon for resale buyers to repay selling owners for annual dues on current UY points. Disney deliberately made a choice to no longer do this. That wouldn’t be a problem except...

Two, Disney is maintaining that previous owners are not entitled to the overpayment in taxes because they no longer hold the contract. That wouldn’t be a problem if ownership is truly being used as the deciding factor to determine this entitlement. But it’s clearly not given the fact that the new owner is not being granted the credit due either.

Instead, Disney is saying to the new owner “You don’t get the money because you didn’t pay it.” And to the old owner “You don’t get the money because you don’t own it anymore.”

What I’ve sought clarification on from Member Accounting is how Disney came to believe that they are entitled to keep that money, a decision that was made some time between 2012 and 2017. And if kept, how are the custodians of these tax payments accounting for the revenue surplus when the actual tax bill comes due?

 

[Ronaldo17]

I think it’s worth clarifying as there seems to be some confusion around this.

If you own a resale contract and paid dues on it directly to Disney, you are not impacted and will see all credits that are due to all members regardless of whether you bought resale or direct.

This impacts only new contracts purchased on the resale markets after annual dues were paid for by the previous owner, and only effects credits that would normally be issued when annual dues are charged to you for next year.

For example, if you bought a contract in March, 2020 after 2020 annual dues were already paid by the original contract owner who sold you the contract, any credit due as a result of tax over payment, should be credited towards 2021 dues. However, Disney is taking the position that since you did not pay that extra tax to Disney, you are not entitled to a refund.

This is problematic for two reasons.

One, this was not always Disney’s position. As late as (perhaps later) than 2012, owners were credited for the overpaid taxes if they held the contract when taxes came due again. It’s not uncommon for resale buyers to repay selling owners for annual dues on current UY points. Disney deliberately made a choice to no longer do this. That wouldn’t be a problem except...

Two, Disney is maintaining that previous owners are not entitled to the overpayment in taxes because they no longer hold the contract. That wouldn’t be a problem if ownership is truly being used as the deciding factor to determine this entitlement. But it’s clearly not given the fact that the new owner is not being granted the credit due either.

Instead, Disney is saying to the new owner “You don’t get the money because you didn’t pay it.” And to the old owner “You don’t get the money because you don’t own it anymore.”

What I’ve sought clarification on from Member Accounting is how Disney came to believe that they are entitled to keep that money, a decision that was made some time between 2012 and 2017. And if kept, how are the custodians of these federal tax payments accounting for the revenue surplus when the actual tax bill comes due?

Thank you, I obviously misunderstood the original post, but I still totally agree with your point of principle, it's not Disney's to keep.

 

[Henwen88]

I think it’s worth clarifying as there seems to be some confusion around this.

If you own a resale contract and paid dues on it directly to Disney, you are not impacted and will see all credits that are due to all members regardless of whether you bought resale or direct.

This impacts only new contracts purchased on the resale markets after annual dues were paid for by the previous owner, and only effects credits that would normally be issued when annual dues are charged to you for next year.

For example, if you bought a contract in March, 2020 after 2020 annual dues were already paid by the original contract owner who sold you the contract, any credit due as a result of tax over payment, should be credited towards 2021 dues. However, Disney is taking the position that since you did not pay that extra tax to Disney, you are not entitled to a refund.

This is problematic for two reasons.

One, this was not always Disney’s position. As late as (perhaps later) than 2012, owners were credited for the overpaid taxes if they held the contract when taxes came due again. It’s not uncommon for resale buyers to repay selling owners for annual dues on current UY points. Disney deliberately made a choice to no longer do this. That wouldn’t be a problem except...

Two, Disney is maintaining that previous owners are not entitled to the overpayment in taxes because they no longer hold the contract. That wouldn’t be a problem if ownership is truly being used as the deciding factor to determine this entitlement. But it’s clearly not given the fact that the new owner is not being granted the credit due either.

Instead, Disney is saying to the new owner “You don’t get the money because you didn’t pay it.” And to the old owner “You don’t get the money because you don’t own it anymore.”

What I’ve sought clarification on from Member Accounting is how Disney came to believe that they are entitled to keep that money, a decision that was made some time between 2012 and 2017. And if kept, how are the custodians of these tax payments accounting for the revenue surplus when the actual tax bill comes due?

Thank you for doing this research. I would also love to know where the extra income lands on the accounting spreadsheet. This reminds me of my first real job after college where I was paid (from a fairly large company) with a written check vs direct deposit (which wasn't even an option). I was curious, and asked my father (CPA/MBA) and got the long lecture about compounding daily interest in the benefit of my employer for every day that one of our checks remains sitting in their account. These small 'pennies' do add up, and someone (the current/previous owner of the deed, the membership, etc) is owed a balance from which someone else (Disney??) is benefitting. Keep digging!

 

[drusba]

I confirmed with member accounting this morning that owners who acquire a contract on the resale market, irrespective of whether or not they compensated the seller for dues, will not receive any credit adjustments for either tax overestimations, or interestingly, resort closures (she had volunteered this last bit without my prompting - not sure how much to read into that).

At some point in the past, as late as 2012, this was not the case and whoever held the deed indeed received the tax credit.

But it appears at some point between 2012 and 2017, Disney guidance has changed and every transfer of a deed essentially means extra money that Disney pockets.

While on an individual basis this is not significant, given the volume of resale contracts that change hands annually, cumulatively, the tax overestimations due to the membership is not an insignificant amount. This should not be Disney's to keep.

This raises the ethical question of how DVCMC not refunding the seller (original owner) or the buyer (new owner) serves to benefit the membership and calls into question the organizations willingness to quietly change this guidance.

It was suggested that I email member accounting for more information and I've done that, but this is pretty sketchy.

Disney had a process in place to credit the current deed holder and actively made a choice to cease that practice without accounting for where the money goes.

I am hoping that you are being given wrong information by accounting about the tax money, a real possibility as DVC personnel often give wrong information and it is DVCM that is deemed to actually have control over the property tax amounts paid by members and thus any questions should likely be directed to DVCM and not directed to the DVC accounting department.

For years, the DVC policy for taxes was that any amounts paid in during the year that exceeded actual taxes were to be applied as a set-off to the next years's estimated taxes in the budget. If taxes exceeded the budgeted amounts for the year, the shortfall would be added to the next year's budget as additional dues. Both those events have happened a number of times in the past. The rule of allocation to the next year's budget is actually the one stated in the annual budget (see ad valorem tax section) and the one still stated in that section in the 2021 annual budgets.The "new" rule which you mention, where Disney gets to keep any excess if there is a resale of property, but I assume still gets to charge any shortfall, was, if actually adopted, made with no notice to members, and with no change to budget terms that said the amounts were to be used to set off the subsequent year's budget.

Moreover, Fl. Stats §192.037 sets out the law relating to timeshare property taxes and amounts paid by members. The statute makes the managing agent of each resort, DVCM for DVC, the party liable for paying taxes. It also provides that the taxes will be assessed to the whole property, not to each individual owner, and the taxes are then to be divided according to ownership interests. All moneys paid by members to cover property taxes must be put into an escrow account to be used by the managing agent (DVCM) to pay the actual taxes. Any amounts in the escrow account leftover after paying taxes are to be held by the managing agent for the benefit of the members. It can be returned to members or applied to future taxes, but the managing agent has no right to keep any of the money in the escrow account for its own profit. The managing agent's failure to comply with the statute is a class D felony. §192.037(6)(f).

As a result, I think further clarification may be needed as to what DVC's actual rules are relating to resale pruchases and the possible set-off for taxes or excess costs. That should be sought via a formal letter to an officer of DVCM , the entity that actually controls any such payments, and not to accounting via the informal email procedure.

 

[Bing Showei]

The screen caps below show that credits for tax overestimations are always credited prior to "Annual Dues Billing" and "Estimated Taxes" for the subsequent year (the components of our annual dues). On the direct contract, this is consistent. In subsequent years of ownership, this is also consistent. But it is noticeably absent in year 1 of resale contract ownership.

Resale Contract #1:



Resale Contract #2:



Resale Contract #3:


However, on a direct purchase in 2018, I did receive a tax credit based on the amount I paid when I bought the contract.

Direct Contract:



The question is, why and when did Disney decide to stop crediting the holder of a deed for points. This is a practice that used to take place in 2012, per dues activities shared by zavandor on a contract purchased in 2012. Taxes were never paid to Disney directly, but the seller was reimbursed for the dues they paid for 2012.



Perhaps the community can help me out here.

If anyone has purchased a contract between 2012 and 2019 please take a moment and visit this link:

https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/home/dues/dues-activity/
There, you should see a dropdown menu for your contracts.

Select the resale contract you purchased.

Adjust the start date to the date you bought the contract. this should show all dues-related transactions subsequent to your purchase.



Next, sort by "Oldest"



If I'm correct, this should show that resale buyers stopped getting credited for tax overestimations on their deed on their first year of billing at some point between 2012 and 2017 and it would be great to figure out when that happened.

As a result, I think further clarification may be needed as to what DVC's actual rules are relating to resale pruchases and the possible set-off for taxes or excess costs. That should be sought via a formal letter to an officer of DVCM , the entity that actually controls any such payments, and not to accounting via the informal email procedure.

I've reached out to Yvonne's office to request a conversation around the official policy. I'll update everyone after I have that conversation. In the interim, if someone can help me confirm the year that this practice started, that would be helpful. Thanks.

 

[Sandisw]

The screen caps below show that credits for tax overestimations are always credited prior to "Annual Dues Billing" and "Estimated Taxes" for the subsequent year (the components of our annual dues). On the direct contract, this is consistent. In subsequent years of ownership, this is also consistent. But it is noticeably absent in year 1 of resale contract ownership.

Resale Contract #1:
View attachment 539026


Resale Contract #2:
View attachment 539028


Resale Contract #3:
View attachment 539027

However, on a direct purchase in 2018, I did receive a tax credit based on the amount I paid when I bought the contract.

Direct Contract:
View attachment 539029


The question is, why and when did Disney decide to stop crediting the holder of a deed for points. This is a practice that used to take place in 2012, per dues activities shared by zavandor on a contract purchased in 2012. Taxes were never paid to Disney directly, but the seller was reimbursed for the dues they paid for 2012.

View attachment 539088

Perhaps the community can help me out here.

If anyone has purchased a contract between 2012 and 2019 please take a moment and visit this link:

https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/home/dues/dues-activity/
There, you should see a dropdown menu for your contracts.

Select the resale contract you purchased.

Adjust the start date to the date you bought the contract. this should show all dues-related transactions subsequent to your purchase.

View attachment 539025

Next, sort by "Oldest"

View attachment 539031

If I'm correct, this should show that resale buyers stopped getting credited for tax overestimations on their deed on their first year of billing at some point between 2012 and 2017 and it would be great to figure out when that happened.



I've reached out to Yvonne's office to request a conversation around the official policy. I'll update everyone after I have that conversation. In the interim, if someone can help me confirm the year that this practice started, that would be helpful. Thanks.

If I looked at it correctly, one of my contracts bought in summer of 2017 do not appear to show an adjustment for taxes in December 2017...but it is there for 2018 and 2019.

But the other one shows an adjustment.

 

[Bing Showei]

If I looked at it correctly, my contracts bought in summer of 2017 do not appear to show an adjustment for taxes in December 2017...but it is there for 2018 and 2019.

Yeah. That’s in keeping with what I saw. Sandi, do you have an earlier contract? Can you look at that and see if you see what zavandor did on his? It would be great to get confirmation that this wasn’t the case in the past.

 

[Sandisw]

Yeah. That’s in keeping with what I saw. Sandi, do you have an earlier contract? Can you look at that and see if you see what zavandor did on his? It would be great to get confirmation that this wasn’t the case in the past.

I just sold my contracts bought in 2012 in the last year so I don’t.