2008 Cruise Points?

[Anal Annie]

Do you play bingo on cruises Annie? DH laughs when I plan my day around it.

Did my first cruise 27 years ago this summer(was on the real Love Boat to Alaska). Absolutely love them and yes you get your food included so that some how has to be given a point value, when pondering the points/cash situation.

Were thinking of maybe trying a 3day(boys haven't done one yet and the eldest due to his meds has a tendency to bet motion sickness) for Thanksgiving 2008 and a couple days at SSR. If things go okay then will look to doing Alaska, maybe use points for HA(I think the only major line I haven't cruised on) or back to Princess(my fave).

Sorry - no bingo for me - I'm more inclined to pick a nice spot by the adult pool with a book and work on seeing how many varieties of tropical drinks I can try in one sitting

BTW, I saw something on mousesavers.com that hinted that the Magic may go to Alaska for summer '08!! If you're interested in that trip you might want to keep your eyes open for the new cruise sched. when it comes out! I'd rather take my DS on the Magic than HA. Our DS had a little sea sickness when we went last time - but I'd asked his pediatrician B4 we went if he could take dramamine & he was allowed 1 per day - worked like a charm (he's on some daily meds too). It's worth asking about B4 u go...

 

[rlmas]

First, no one is saying that what anyone wants to do with their points is wrong. Each has to figure out what is right for them.

My only point is that when you compare the true cash price for the cruise (which includes meals and entertainment also) to the number of points required, you may only be getting $6 or $7 per point. The earlier comment that it is much better financially to rent the points for cash (say $10) to pay the lower non-DVC cash price for the cruise is dead on. You would come out better by $3 to $4 multiplied by the number of points required. It gets even worse when paying only a portion of the trip with points. The cash price quoted by MS is horrible (30 - 40% higher than DCL directly) if booking early. It gets less bad if you book closer to your travel dates because MS has a fixed price no matter when you book relative to your travel.

I just wish we didn't have to go through the trouble of renting. If our DVC accomodations are worth a certain amount on the rental market, why doesn't DVC give us something more fair when trading. After all they get to keep the cash from renting the DVC room we are not using because we traded out of DVC.

 

[kimberh]

First, no one is saying that what anyone wants to do with their points is wrong. Each has to figure out what is right for them.

My only point is that when you compare the true cash price for the cruise (which includes meals and entertainment also) to the number of points required, you may only be getting $6 or $7 per point. The earlier comment that it is much better financially to rent the points for cash (say $10) to pay the lower non-DVC cash price for the cruise is dead on. You would come out better by $3 to $4 multiplied by the number of points required. It gets even worse when paying only a portion of the trip with points. The cash price quoted by MS is horrible (30 - 40% higher than DCL directly) if booking early. It gets less bad if you book closer to your travel dates because MS has a fixed price no matter when you book relative to your travel.

I just wish we didn't have to go through the trouble of renting. If our DVC accomodations are worth a certain amount on the rental market, why doesn't DVC give us something more fair when trading. After all they get to keep the cash from renting the DVC room we are not using because we traded out of DVC.

Thank you for saying what I was trying to say. I was just giving an example of what we did. I had priced ours several ways and went with the cheapest Company. I was pricing the very same cabin numbers. Sometimes it is easier to do a transfer and have it done in one transaction and it is over. Then you are not responsible for anything else. You have completed the transaction. You have the exact same cruise, regardless of how you pay for it.

 

[Anal Annie]

First, no one is saying that what anyone wants to do with their points is wrong. Each has to figure out what is right for them.

My only point is that when you compare the true cash price for the cruise (which includes meals and entertainment also) to the number of points required, you may only be getting $6 or $7 per point. The earlier comment that it is much better financially to rent the points for cash (say $10) to pay the lower non-DVC cash price for the cruise is dead on. You would come out better by $3 to $4 multiplied by the number of points required. It gets even worse when paying only a portion of the trip with points. The cash price quoted by MS is horrible (30 - 40% higher than DCL directly) if booking early. It gets less bad if you book closer to your travel dates because MS has a fixed price no matter when you book relative to your travel.

I just wish we didn't have to go through the trouble of renting. If our DVC accomodations are worth a certain amount on the rental market, why doesn't DVC give us something more fair when trading. After all they get to keep the cash from renting the DVC room we are not using because we traded out of DVC.

OK, so I'm just DENSE... If we have an accumulated total of 402 pts. for next yr. and we rent them out for $10 / pt. that's only $4,020 which is still $1,380 short of being able to pay the cash price for the trip we want to do (it's about $5,400 thru DCL). I don't see how the hassle of renting them out would help us with our scenario. I'm sorry guys - someone is going to have to draw me a picture to get it to sink in!! I realize the price MS quoted me for our DS was almost exactly 30% higher than pricing thru DCL - but it still only works out to about $1,200 out of pocket to pay everything but his portion with pts. (Are we allowed to book him thru DCL if that's all we're booking thru them or do we have to go thru MS if we book our part thru them?)

Oh boy does being stupid get old.....

 

[Anal Annie]

Thank you for saying what I was trying to say. I was just giving an example of what we did. I had priced ours several ways and went with the cheapest Company. I was pricing the very same cabin numbers. Sometimes it is easier to do a transfer and have it done in one transaction and it is over. Then you are not responsible for anything else. You have completed the transaction. You have the exact same cruise, regardless of how you pay for it.

What do you mean by "transfer" - is that another way to say rent them?

 

[Anjelica]

First, no one is saying that what anyone wants to do with their points is wrong. Each has to figure out what is right for them.

My only point is that when you compare the true cash price for the cruise (which includes meals and entertainment also) to the number of points required, you may only be getting $6 or $7 per point. The earlier comment that it is much better financially to rent the points for cash (say $10) to pay the lower non-DVC cash price for the cruise is dead on. You would come out better by $3 to $4 multiplied by the number of points required. It gets even worse when paying only a portion of the trip with points. The cash price quoted by MS is horrible (30 - 40% higher than DCL directly) if booking early. It gets less bad if you book closer to your travel dates because MS has a fixed price no matter when you book relative to your travel.

I just wish we didn't have to go through the trouble of renting. If our DVC accomodations are worth a certain amount on the rental market, why doesn't DVC give us something more fair when trading. After all they get to keep the cash from renting the DVC room we are not using because we traded out of DVC.

A few things:

How do you come up with the conversion of 1 pt being used for DCL = $6 or $7?

Also - I don't whole heartedly agree that using a combination of points and cash is "horrible" in terms of pricing. For example (real life example) I originally booked our September 2007 cruise with cash. We then decided to use some points for both my husbands and I portion of the cruise and pay cash for my daughter. When I did the calculation by paying cash for just husband and I vs. paying cash for all three of us the difference was approximately $750.00. When I transferred my reservation over to MS and used points/cash combination my daughters portion (cash) came out to approximately $675.00 - a whole $75.00 dollars "better" then when I went through DCL directly.

 

[Starr W.]

Sorry - no bingo for me - I'm more inclined to pick a nice spot by the adult pool with a book and work on seeing how many varieties of tropical drinks I can try in one sitting

BTW, I saw something on mousesavers.com that hinted that the Magic may go to Alaska for summer '08!! If you're interested in that trip you might want to keep your eyes open for the new cruise sched. when it comes out! I'd rather take my DS on the Magic than HA. Our DS had a little sea sickness when we went last time - but I'd asked his pediatrician B4 we went if he could take dramamine & he was allowed 1 per day - worked like a charm (he's on some daily meds too). It's worth asking about B4 u go...

Thanks for the heads up, my DS is 10 and we do the chewable dramamine and it works. I usually take some before bed, as it seems to effect me more when I am asleep.

 

[Starr W.]

What do you mean by "transfer" - is that another way to say rent them?

You can transfer your points to another members account or visa versa. Let's say I want to do a cruise with Princess and not go to Disney this year and gosh I don't want to bank them and use them next year. I could transfer my points to you, one transaction and only one call to MS instead of many to check availability of BWV standard view studios over F&W fest time.


To me that would be the easiest and best way, ie keep the points in the "family"(DVC family that is).

 

[Anal Annie]

A few things:

How do you come up with the conversion of 1 pt being used for DCL = $6 or $7?

Also - I don't whole heartedly agree that using a combination of points and cash is "horrible" in terms of pricing. For example (real life example) I originally booked our September 2007 cruise with cash. We then decided to use some points for both my husbands and I portion of the cruise and pay cash for my daughter. When I did the calculation by paying cash for just husband and I vs. paying cash for all three of us the difference was approximately $750.00. When I transferred my reservation over to MS and used points/cash combination my daughters portion (cash) came out to approximately $675.00 - a whole $75.00 dollars "better" then when I went through DCL directly.

I don't get how rlmas is coming up with that conversion rate either...but I think we HAVE established that each & every scenario has its pros & cons & that it's worth checking every way possible. For us, using cash is more of a drain right now since we just bought in. My spreadsheets, although based on hypothetical situations still come out best for us to use pts. All I know is that we LOVED our last disney cruise & can't wait to go again - and are determined to figure out a way to make it work!

 

[kimberh]

Annie,
No one is saying that you have to ask $10.00 per point. You can ask $10.50 or $11.00, if they are new points for a transfer. You would post this on the Rent/Trade Board with the number of points, Uy, what resort they are from. If you are interested in this option, go over to it and see how people are posting there. Read the instructions, there is a proper way to post your request. If you are not comfortable with this, then stick with what you already know you are familiar with. I was just trying to help you get the most value for your points. Maybe in your case, you already are. My family is wanting me to book a cruise for them on points, but I thought it would not work for us, this is the only reason I brought it up. Sorry if I confused you.

Just remember if you do go the Transfer route, the points cannot have been banked!!! They have to be new Uy points. They can be 2006 or 2007 depending what UY you are in right now. The person receiving the points cannot have received a transfer into that UY this year or made a transfer out. Member Services will explain this to you, if you need help.

 

[Anjelica]

I don't get how rlmas is coming up with that conversion rate either...but I think we HAVE established that each & every scenario has its pros & cons & that it's worth checking every way possible. For us, using cash is more of a drain right now since we just bought in. My spreadsheets, although based on hypothetical situations still come out best for us to use pts. All I know is that we LOVED our last disney cruise & can't wait to go again - and are determined to figure out a way to make it work!

Agreed - I think every person needs to look at their circumstances and figure out whats best for them. I just don't think the preverbial "its better to rent your points out and get the cash" can necessarily fly for every situation. Time of year (i.e. value, etc.), included benefits, etc. need to be taken into consideration.

 

[crisi]

We've done both our cruises on cash and haven't rented the points - we need them for Disney! But we have a small number of points and to cruise the way we like (veranda) with our family of four means using three years of points - I don't want to do that, we bought our points for WDW. But the math is pretty easy.

1. Check the rent trade board for the price you expect to get for renting your points.
2. Multiply out the number of points to cruise by the number you expect to get for your points.
3. Compare that number plus the $95 (?) booking fee to the inclusive cost of the cruise (remember discounts or stateroom credits) - compare same category to same category. Make sure to compare apples to apples all the way through - the DVC point price doesn't (as I recall) include insurance or transfers - most DCL quotes will unless you purposely exclude them.
4. Look at the gap. If you end up with more money renting and paying cash, factor in the risks and effort of renting. If you end up with it being cheaper to book on points, factor in some cost for the difference in booking and cancellation. Only you can give a value to these things. Its possible that you can make $2000 by renting your points and paying cash - and it could still not be worth it to you to do it because renting can be a pain in the backend.

If you can get a cruise for 400 points that's booking right now for over $5,000, you are getting a deal - that's $12.50 a point. Usually, it isn't that clear at all - cruises generally factor at more like $6.50 a point - enough that it covers dues and makes it worthwhile from that standpoint.

Remember you can combine points and cash - book one person on points and others on cash.

 

[Anal Annie]

If you can get a cruise for 400 points that's booking right now for over $5,000, you are getting a deal - that's $12.50 a point. Usually, it isn't that clear at all - cruises generally factor at more like $6.50 a point - enough that it covers dues and makes it worthwhile from that standpoint.

Remember you can combine points and cash - book one person on points and others on cash.

I think the combo idea will work out in our favor. 403 pts. covers a cat. 8 in peak season for 2 adults on the 4 n. cruise + 3 n in a studio at SSR (447 pts. would get us a balcony). We'll already have our park passes left from this yr. Then we're just looking to pay cash for our DS(9). Our plans could change between now & whenever we can actually BOOK it, but, for now, it seems to work (on paper).

I want to thank everyone for their input & for "listening". I did go over to the Rent / Trade board & look thru some of that stuff. It DOES look like it could be a pain. I like deals as much as the next person, but I'm not gonna drive from store to store to store & waste an hours worth of time driving & parking etc. just 'cuz I have a $2 off coupon...especially if I could be home making more spreadsheets for my next obsession!!!

Anyway, thanks guys! Best of luck to everyone attempting to figure this one out!!

 

[rlmas]

He everyone,

Not to beat this one to death, but.......

Here is my math from an actual example -

We are booked with cash for Dec 8, 2007 in Category 9

DCL cash price for family of four excluding transportation and insurance, since the DVC price also excludes these items as well - $3,810.

Price quote from MS for same cruise using points - 652

"Value" or "Spending Power" per point = $5.84 (Real Value)

Rent points at $10 = $6,520
Pay cash = $3,810
Your pocket = $2,710

Cash price quoted by MS for same cruise for entire family (I know, you cannot do this, but it makes the point about their cash price.) = $5,027

Price quote from MS for same cruise using points - 652

"Value" or "Spending Power" per point = $7.71 (DVC inflated value)

DVC cash price less DCL cash price ($5,027 - $3,810 = $1,217)

As mentioned earlier, if you are booking late, the MS pricing actually becomes more favorable than DCL. But...why not take advantage of the early booking. If you just cannot do that, points or cash are bot better deals through MS as DCL is charging a huge premium to book last minute.

I hope this helps.

P.S. I hope this helps and does not crown me spreadsheet champion.

 

[rlmas]

After re-reading Anal Annies computations I offer the following question and observation.

Does the land sea combo include tickets? If so, the value of these should be subtracted as she would not be getting htis using the point scenario. I know she has the APs, but the math still has to be comparable.

Maybe DVC "rewards" you for booking a higher level cabin by giving more "value" per point compared to cash price. Anal Annie is looking at Cat 6,7,8

I would rather go more often in a lesser cabin.

 

[Scotch]

I don't understand why everytime I see calculations for the "rent, get cash and use for cruise" posts I never see a reference to TAXES!!! We always report the taxes on the rental income we derive from our timeshare rentals, including DVC. I've always wondered if we're in the minority when it comes to following the tax rules?? For us that means we take in roughly 30% less on the "profit" portion of the rental proceeds. Even if it does not make a significant difference, I think folks need to mention this for newbies who don't realize they need to account for taxes.

 

[Starr W.]

I don't understand why everytime I see calculations for the "rent, get cash and use for cruise" posts I never see a reference to TAXES!!! We always report the taxes on the rental income we derive from our timeshare rentals, including DVC. I've always wondered if we're in the minority when it comes to following the tax rules?? For us that means we take in roughly 30% less on the "profit" portion of the rental proceeds. Even if it does not make a significant difference, I think folks need to mention this for newbies who don't realize they need to account for taxes.

I'll put money you are in a very small minority Scotch. To most it's a way to pay for dues or "get your money back" if you can't use your points this year.


I'll throw up if someone says they rent to to "share the magic"

 

[Anal Annie]

He everyone,

Not to beat this one to death, but.......

Here is my math from an actual example -

We are booked with cash for Dec 8, 2007 in Category 9

DCL cash price for family of four excluding transportation and insurance, since the DVC price also excludes these items as well - $3,810.

Price quote from MS for same cruise using points - 652

"Value" or "Spending Power" per point = $5.84 (Real Value)

Rent points at $10 = $6,520
Pay cash = $3,810
Your pocket = $2,710

Cash price quoted by MS for same cruise for entire family (I know, you cannot do this, but it makes the point about their cash price.) = $5,027

Price quote from MS for same cruise using points - 652

"Value" or "Spending Power" per point = $7.71 (DVC inflated value)

DVC cash price less DCL cash price ($5,027 - $3,810 = $1,217)

As mentioned earlier, if you are booking late, the MS pricing actually becomes more favorable than DCL. But...why not take advantage of the early booking. If you just cannot do that, points or cash are bot better deals through MS as DCL is charging a huge premium to book last minute.

I hope this helps.

P.S. I hope this helps and does not crown me spreadsheet champion.

Oh rlmas - I had promised myself I was OUT of this conversation....but it appears we are again not comparing the same trip!!!! It looks to me like you're doing a 7 n. cruise whereas I was looking at doing the 4 n. cruise and spending 3 n. on land (MUCH cheaper on the pts.) plus we're only 3 ppl. I still think the whole thing has to be looked at on a per cruise basis - and obviously, no 2 trips work out the same!

(PS) You can't take my spreadsheet champion title just yet!
(PSS) YOU'LL HAVE A GREAT TIME! It looks from the sched. like you're on the Magic...give her a pat for me & tell her I'll be back one day!!

Annie

 

[Scotch]

I'll put money you are in a very small minority Scotch. To most it's a way to pay for dues or "get your money back" if you can't use your points this year.

I don't think the intent is the issue. Most rent here for $10 a point. That EXCEEDS any owner's actual cost per point when taking into consideration maintenance fees and initial purchase price. I am like the majority in that we only rent when we can't use our timeshares and thank goodness that is infrequent; we bought all of our weeks to use. My point is it doesn't matter -- if your rental proceeds exceed the actual cost of the points, you own taxes. So that percentage deduction should always be taken into consideration when calculating the *value* of the points rental for use on something else.

 

[Anal Annie]

After re-reading Anal Annies computations I offer the following question and observation.

Does the land sea combo include tickets? If so, the value of these should be subtracted as she would not be getting htis using the point scenario. I know she has the APs, but the math still has to be comparable.

Maybe DVC "rewards" you for booking a higher level cabin by giving more "value" per point compared to cash price. Anal Annie is looking at Cat 6,7,8

I would rather go more often in a lesser cabin.

Ar-r-r-g-g-h-h!!
Yes, the Land & Sea combo thru DCL includes park tickets (not sure if they're park hoppers or not). But remember that anytime you buy park tickets by the day they're cheaper with the more days you buy. So the DCL price is bound to be higher for only 3 days. I priced buying only 3 days worth - just tickets, nothing else (and I can't find that darn piece of paper right now that I wrote it down on - GASP )! But anyway, I was trying to check the $ diff. if we bought 7 days worth this summer & then 3 days worth next yr. for this trip (with the water park opt.). The annual pass would save us only a couple hundred dollars, but it would save. Buying only 3 days at once was just almost as much $ as buying the 7 days.

ANYWAY, my WHOLE thing here is that for US. Not necessarily anybody else, but WE can prob. get by for approx. $1200 out of pocket. And we're OK with that figure 'cuz if we booked this same thing thru DCL, the package (and yes, that includes the park tickets) it would be about $5,400. IF we rented our 402 pts. for $10 / pt. we'd STILL be short $1,380. And I realize that we're paying for the park tickets THIS year. But THAT'S OK 'cuz that's our only expense for this summer and it lessens what we have to pay NEXT summer. (And yes, I'm mainly looking at higher categories on the ship 'cuz we want to be higher up deck wise. But IMO I think the BIGGEST pt. diff. actually comes into play between the diff. seasons - that's where they get us I think!)

ANYWAY, NOW the horse is dead!! He's been flogged and he's been shot!!!!!!
Take care..........................