19 year old teen urinating off of his verandah..

[karibritt01]

it is one persons accusation of another person. Does that make the accuser automatically right and the accused automatically guilty?

without there being any further incident or witnesses.

Are we forgetting that the "accused" also was verbally harrassing? Throwing furniture? Still being combative with the OPs DH when security arrived? Admitted to the incident? He was NOT innocent and NOT wrongfully accused!

 

[Skuba2]

RhondaINma---I too may cruise Disney again, but not with my teenager. I wouldn't worry about how your original post came off. It seemed fine to me. You started a discussion that many people have opinions on. As with any good topic, posts will cover both sides of the issue.

I think it is the responses from the company that get people upset. Those who love Disney do so with a passion. They bring Disney into their hearts, into their lives and are an extremely loyal bunch. The only thing that Disney fans seem to ask for in return is a safe and fun trip. If people can be ordered secluded into their rooms for a day or two due to a "suspected" illness for the comfort and security of the rest of the passengers, then why can't something like that be done in this instance. I'm not saying that was what the OP wanted---she probably wanted to never see the guys next door again.
But, because she is in a suite gives her no more or less rights to enjoy her cabin and verandah without worrying about some foul mouth next door poking whatever through the verandah.

As far as the thread getting out of hand, I don't think that is accurate. It is a pretty tame thread at that. People giving their opinion on the topic. No one really bashing or calling anyone names. Isn't that what we do on the message boards.

Deb

 

[Pluto 2]

maybe someone was using the toilet in the room.you gota go you gota go

 

[inkkognito]

maybe someone was using the toilet in the room.you gota go you gota go

Or maybe he was practicing hammock marking for when the ship got to Castaway Cay.

 

[RanCan]

Exactly. However ... "Off with their heads!!!!!" .... right beachblanket et al.? thats what we want right? Or at least that is what we expect DCL to do ... I guess because we are better than normal society, we are sailiing DCL, we expect action, immediate and harsh! We are in a suite, the Walt Suite, we will not tolerate anything less than death by hanging right now in the middle of the town square. Judge, jury, investigation ... even questioning ... huh, not if I make the accusation! Make is so, NOW!

I was hoping I didn't come across that way. Sorry if I did. I will admit that maybe we expected this vacation to be 'perfect' because of what we paid. Between air, the suite and a stay before and after at WDW Polynesian it cost us over $25000. I have learned that there is no such thing as perfect... and I have also learned that one incident certainly doesn't have to ruin your whole cruise. As far as how much we paid... we made that decision with no guarantee that it would be without any incidents. I guess it was just unexpected.

Would I pay that again to sail in a Disney suite? In a heartbeat. Nothing like sailing Disney with not only lots of extra space but also with concierge there to take care of you.

There is no need for you to apologize for feeling the way you felt! A lot of people would have felt the same way! Including me!
And you shouldn't have to explain yourself just because some people over react!!

I appreciate you telling us what happened! We can always learn from what others go through. Thank you!

 

[RalphieN]

How do the laws on ship work? Does Disney decide crime and punishment? Do the Bahamas because of the registration? Does the US because of debarkation site? Or does Mexico becaues it was while in their waters? Whichever is the case, there should be a law against this behavior and the victims should have the right to get legal compensation for the "crime" from the criminal.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

RhodaInMA - I am so sorry this happened to you. Please don't listen to the absurd "busybody" comments. You were sitting quietly talking on your verandah for heavens sake.

As the teen was obviously caught in the act the "Innocent until proven guilty" arguments do not apply.

I would have made my teen apologize which most good parents would have done. If the complaintant's name was made unavailable Disney security would have been happy to pass along a verbal or written note of apology. The lack of response is a tacit condoning of the act which would have disturbed me and made me wonder if there was some sort of possible retaliation in the future. I too would be looking over my shoulder.

Without a stronger response from DCL or the family I would be worried about the rest of my cruise also.

 

[cats mom]

How do the laws on ship work? Does Disney decide crime and punishment? Do the Bahamas because of the registration? Does the US because of debarkation site? Or does Mexico becaues it was while in their waters? Whichever is the case, there should be a law against this behavior and the victims should have the right to get legal compensation for the "crime" from the criminal.

I think that's one of those 'do you really want to know?' questions, because it certainly seems to me that the answer is they don't work.

"Under international law, a ship is considered an extension of its registering nation, giving that country legal jurisdiction over the vessel when it's at sea. But registering nations typically have little interest in the ships beyond serving as low-tax and limited-regulation shelters for the vessels' owners.

Under the federal Ports and Waterways Safety Act, U.S. authorities have legal jurisdiction over ships carrying U.S. passengers or sailing to and from U.S. ports, so when Americans go on cruise ships internationally, they have the protection of the FBI"

Sounds good in theory... but in practice the cruise industry reported 207 suspected crimes to the FBI from April to August of 2007, but the FBI did not consider most of them serious enough for it to investigate.

"The FBI said it generally limits its investigations to the most serious crimes involving deaths, missing persons, sexual assaults, non-sexual assaults resulting in serious injuries or theft of items valued at more than $10,000."

Even then it often takes days before FBI agents make it onboard to investigate and the conviction rate doesn't exactly inspire much confidence.

“If something happens, the chances of anybody being prosecuted is slim to none, said Ken Carver of the International Cruise Victims Association.

Of the 190 serious crimes aboard cruise ships reported to the FBI by ship operators from 2003 to 2006, only 31, or 16 percent, ended with criminal convictions, according to FBI statistics."


Makes you really hope you're not involved in any kind of incident onboard... serious or otherwise.

 

[Coach Rick]

To the OP, you are a very classy person! You have taken this very rationally IMO.

To those that think DCL should be judge, jury, and prosecutor, give me a break. Even on land a police officer can not do a dog gone thing if there is NO physical evidence that the perpetrator did as accused. That said as a business who's future depends on it's customers, they need to show compassion to EVERY customer. I personally think the response was appropriate. Why is it we are always looking for multiple people to blame for the poor actions of others. The blame is pretty clear and simple, IMO, it sits squarely with the young person who caused this grief. I understand the inaction of this kids parents didn't meet most of our expectations, and quite frankly, this kid should have owned up to it on his own, but didn't. By now complaining that Disney should have done more is inappropriate.

That all said, I find this inexcusable behavior obviously. Yes the world is going down hill, and yes it is wrong to just through our arms in the air and give up, but we need to pick our battles and locations correctly. I would hope that nobody ever has to witness this type of behavior again, but if you do, perhaps mentioning it in person to this young mans parents would serve as better resolution? Oh and a video recorder to be put put on Youtube later would also make you feel better.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

Yes the world is going down hill, and yes it is wrong to just through our arms in the air and give up, but we need to pick our battles and locations correctly. I would hope that nobody ever has to witness this type of behavior again, but if you do, perhaps mentioning it in person to this young mans parents would serve as better resolution? Oh and a video recorder to be put put on Youtube later would also make you feel better.

YouTube would be a great idea but it does remind me of those young girls who recently gave a beating to another girl planning on putting it on YouTube. The parents were really disturbing defending their actions. Matt Lauer was shocked.

That is why I'm totally with the OP here. If you've already had one really bad incident with someone, what is done to ensure there won't be a repeatition? Escpecially since the person in question had to know the complaint came from next door.

 

[disneyfinatics]

Just wondering if there isn't evidence of what happened? I thought someone said they video tape the verandas, wouldn't they be able to look at this?

 

[dursin]

Just wondering if there isn't evidence of what happened? I thought someone said they video tape the verandas, wouldn't they be able to look at this?

They don't video tape the verandas.

 

[Pluto 2]

They don't video tape the verandas.

we hope they dont video tape the verandas

 

[disneyfinatics]

On our 3rd DCL cruise, we came back to our cabin one day, and had a letter stating that items had been tossed from the verandahs, and would not be tolerated by DCL. It was signed by the security officer.

Well, we went and found our teen, gave him the 3rd degree and threatened him within a inch of his life...we checked with our friends who had a cabin on the other side of the ship, and they didn't have a letter.

So DH went to guest services and asked to talk to a security officer (ok, at this point I had convicted my son and he was grounded). Come to find out the security cameras had noticed things blowing off verandah's in a generalized block of cabins. And all of the cabins on our side had received the same letter.

OK, we felt awful for grilling our son, and yes, we made it up to him...

My point is, that I am sure(ok, at least I hope) security reviewed their tapes of the incident. (oh yes, there are cameras everywhere).

Needless to say, knowing there are security cameras, our "couples" time on the verandah is now kept G rated. LOL

This is why I thought there would be video tape evidence. Having not cruised,yet, I don't know about the ships.

 

[DCLLVR]

I was hoping I didn't come across that way. Sorry if I did. I will admit that maybe we expected this vacation to be 'perfect' because of what we paid. Between air, the suite and a stay before and after at WDW Polynesian it cost us over $25000. I have learned that there is no such thing as perfect... and I have also learned that one incident certainly doesn't have to ruin your whole cruise. As far as how much we paid... we made that decision with no guarantee that it would be without any incidents. I guess it was just unexpected.

Would I pay that again to sail in a Disney suite? In a heartbeat. Nothing like sailing Disney with not only lots of extra space but also with concierge there to take care of you.

No, you certainly did not come across that way, but others did, my post was not directed at you, but at the comments of others. Sorry I had to put it so harshly, but it just seems that some posters expectation of what DCL should have done in this situation come without considering common sense. Could have DCL done more? ... probably. Are they obligated to do more? ... depends on the evidence and the circumstances. Do they need to be very very careful in how they 'punish' their guests due to legal and liability reasons? ... YES!

I think that Disney does a pretty darn good job of handling most situations on the ship, however, they can not control the stupid actions of every passenger. The fact that DCL Officers came to your defense, questioned the accused and even sent him to his parents stateroom ... presumably because he was under the age of 21. Otherwise, all DCL could have done is question the accused and maybe warn them that there has been a complaint and that any further complaints would warrent further action. Again, not much they could have done without good solid evidence.

As far as your complaint letter, again, not sure what you or other posters expectations are here, one poster even suggested that you should have gotten an appology directly from the Captain of the ship. Not sure what the apology would be for ... apologizing for the actions of some idiot passenger? ... for which DCL has no control. A reply to your complaint letter empathic with the situation that occured? Definately.

But what else?

 

[DCLLVR]

Great spinball! The issue here isn't as much what action should have been taken "against" the teen as much (as I have repeatedly pointed out) DCL's absolutely crappy response to the OP's post-cruise complaint. If some people here live in a realm where they accept that sort of blow off, "too bad" form letter response, I can only imagine how much they are regularly taken advantage of by other bureaucracies.

Thanks! Actually, not a "spinball" at all ... a "fastball" straight down the middle, yes. Not sure how the emailed reply (copied below) qualifies as a "crappy response" or a "blow off". Doesn't look like a "form letter" either since it references the situation very specifically. ... please explain, I suggest reading it again though, in fact, I would suggest you read it a couple of times before you respond again, obviously you missed a few words in this email the first time you 'read it'.

"regularly taken advantage of by other bureaucracies"? .... this sounds like the typical "entitlement mentality" response to me. I suppose you belong to the "something for nothing" crowd as well. Oh yes, now I get it ... the OP should have sued DCL, this is all starting to make sense to me now. The response from DCL just was not good enough was it ... never is though is it.

Here is Disney's reply to my email:

5/13/08

Dear Rhonda:

Thank you for your e-mail.

On behalf of the entire Disney Cruise Line team, I hope you will accept
my heartfelt regret for any disappointment with your cruise vacation.
We truly want all of our guests to have fond memories of their time
spent with us, and I was very sorry to learn that the actions of a
teenage guest diminished the enjoyment of your sailing. I can assure
you that the comfort and security of our guests and crew members has
always been of paramount importance to us, and the same standard of
appropriate conduct is expected from everyone. Your concerns about the
teenager during the cruise were most certainly taken seriously, as well
as thoroughly addressed with the family, and handled accordingly. If we
had continued to experience any difficulties with the teen or his
family, I'm sure that our shipboard officers would have seriously
considered disembarking the group.

Although we are unable to offer any compensation for this incident,
please know that your concerns have been taken very seriously and shared
with all the appropriate shipboard and shoreside management individuals
in order to determine where any future considerations may be necessary.

Again, thank you for your e-mail. We hope this one situation doesn't
overshadow the enjoyment of the rest of your cruise vacation with us.
There is magic in the Disney name, and we hope to have the chance to
sail with you again one day soon.

Sincerely,

Joel
Guest Communications
Disney Cruise Line

After she sent her complaint, the OP should have gotten a personal phone call from either the Captain or a Senior Officer of the ship. The discussion should have included an apology for the fact the incident happened and acknowledgment that it seriously impacted the cruise experience.

I think the reply email from DCL did appologize that the incicent happened and did acknowledge the seriousness of the situaion. I agree with you about the personal phone call however, because, one day I got bumped into by some guy and he did not say I'm sorry and I really believe that I should have gotten a call from the Captain as well. Nobody appologized to me to my satisfaction, not even Robert Iger, dang it, I expect more from Disney.

... but in consideration of the seriousness of what happened the line is permanently banning a certain young man from ever sailing with them again (and by the way, every major cruise line has and enforces just such "black lists.")

Without solid evidence? ... other than the 'word' of another passenger, no disrespect to the OP, but come on beachblanket, do you actually think that any cruiseline should ban a passenger for life due to a complaint? What if someone made a complaint about you, but they made a mistake and it was really some other passenger that did 'it' .... whatever 'it' is. The cruise line should ban you for life without any evidence at all ... just a complaint from another passenger? ... or are you just talking about those "other passengers" ... other than you?

And before anyone rolls their eyes at all that, I got just that type of call from a very senior Disney executive severall years ago, after I complained in a letter to them about the experience I was having with one of their marketing partners. And the fact it was a personal call acknowledging the importance to them of the matter made all the difference.

Good for you. Different situation though, Disney had some 'control' of your situation, they are personally responsible for the actions of their marketing partners ... but not of every stupid thing that any guest at Disney, DCL or anywhere else for that matter could do. Let me guess, you threatened a lawsuit ... right?


Look all ... I am not defending this 19 year old idiot, I am trying to explain that what DCL Security or any Law Enforcement Entity could have done in this situation is very limited. I think the OP did the right thing to call security to notify them of the situation. I think DCL did the right thing to come down at the OP's defense and question the youth. I think DCL did the right thing by notifying the parents (even though the "age of consent" is questionable here, he had obviously been drinking and was underage, therefore requiring the youth to stay in the parents stateroom was appropriate in my opinion ... and probably about the only reasonable thing that they could do given this particular situation. I think the OP did the right thing by sending a letter to DCL explaining the incident and their displeasure ... although I am not sure what action(s) were expected. I believe that DCL's response was reasonable, empathetic to the OP, appologized, made comment to the details of the situation, etc., very good response. Not sure that the OP asked for more in the original email, but DCL made it pretty clear that additional "compensation" would not be appropriate here (the OP mentioned in an earlier post that compensation was not requested, but I'd be willing to bet that the OP mentioned the 'cost' of the cruise in the original email complaint, enough so that DCL felt it neccessary to explain that compensation would not be on the way) ... for which I agree.

So, my point .... and my last post on the matter ... Sorry that the OP had to witness such an event on such a magical ship, but there are idiots everywhere. However, this thread has turned into a discussion about what DCL "should have done" ... personally, I think that DCL did exactly what it should or even could, have been done. Thank you OP for bringing it to our attention!!! For those that expected more 'action' taken from DCL, think about it, put yourself in DCL's shoes. Make believe you are the security officer in charge that night. Think about the consequences of overreacting to something that you were not present to witness, you only have the word of one set of passengers, you need to be careful not to cause litigation from either party, etc. Think now, really think!!

 

[TanyaLovesPooh]

That is a disgusting situation. The actions of the person as well as the way it was handled.

 

[ppony]

In certain cultures if you got caught stealingyou lost a hand, no need to say what this could have lost him! I think our society is far too lenient on people that commit what this idiot did, which was public ludeness and exposing himself. If people were on their balconies below you KNOW it hit them and they thought it ws sea spray! I don't care if it wasn't a felony, just because a crime isn't as big as a felony deons't mean it shouldn't be treated with more seriousness. THAT is why people continue to do more and more of this junk. All they ever get is a slap on the hand and when will that ever detur anyone from doing an offence again. It's clear he'll never feel bad for what he did. If he didn't learn by now he never will. I'm sorry the OP had to endure this and I'm quite positive I would feel exactly as they did, both about the lack of any punishment and DCL not taking a stronger stance with this moron. I'm not surprised though. NO ONE in this society will take a stronger stance against this kind of stuff precisely because of what you've seen in this thread (as little as I've read of it) that people would prefer the slap on the hand and second chances and that is exactly where things have gone wrong. It's not like the OP could go anywhere to escape him. It's a ship on an ocean. I would have felt just as the OP.

As for the amorous people on verandas, again, that's public space out there. I don't wnat to see it or hear it. I would have been extremely angry that my veranda time had to be on hold becuase someone felt their desire to monopolize the verandas was more important. I would have probably thrown stuff at them or gotten a box O popcirn and said thanks for the free porn. The only way people like that will ever take in inside is if they are made to feel really uncomfortable. My hubby is REALLY good at doing that. I love my man.