18% Gratutiy

[lilyv]

I'm going to throw in an extreme point of view (that isn't mine, BTW) here...

My fiancee is absolutely, dead set against tipping. Her feeling is that the expectation that a patron pay ANY tip unless the diner receives superior service is nothing but an excuse for the restaurant to get away with paying the waitstaff lower wages and pretend their prices are lower than they really are, so she won't leave a tip. Needless to say, this leads to some pretty uncomfortable experiences for me when we go out and she pays...

To put it mildly, she's not happy about DDE implementing a mandatory gratuity. As far as she's concerned, Disney's just taken back most of her discount.

As weird as it makes me feel when she does this, I'll give her points for an interesting argument. Why don't restaurants just hike the prices 18%, pay the staff with that extra money and make it clear that a tip is only to be left if the diner feels that they've received superior service? At least the bill would be a more honest reflection of what the meal actually costs, and we wouldn't need to have discusssions like this one.

I'm more than a little puzzled by anyone who espouses a "philosophy" that in practice deliberately hurts hardworking folks. Here's hoping OP will be able to encourage girlfriend to feel some empathy toward the servers who are just trying to make ends meet by waiting tables. They're people, too.

 

[Charleyann]

your poor trying to make ends meet retailer cashiers.....20% for them too? My point, there are tons of hardworking minimum wage earners who don't get a tip? Their employers aren't charging us with gratuities to help make ends meet!

 

[Nom]

your poor trying to make ends meet retailer cashiers.....20% for them too? My point, there are tons of hardworking minimum wage earners who don't get a tip? Their employers aren't charging us with gratuities to help make ends meet!

You must have missed the previous post that pointed out that the minimum wage for waiters is $2.13 - much less than the minimum wage a retail cashier might be making- what is the normal minimum wage anyway now adays? at least $6 I think- that is why tipping is so important.

 

[wilde_oscar]

hasn't the question of gratuity been beated to death yet? if you don't like the pay, get an education and get a real job... till then, take what ya get.

 

[lilyv]

You must have missed the previous post that pointed out that the minimum wage for waiters is $2.13 - much less than the minimum wage a retail cashier might be making- what is the normal minimum wage anyway now adays? at least $6 I think- that is why tipping is so important.

Thanks, Nom. You're exactly right on the why of tipping. Servers generally drive to work-gas is around 3.00 a gallon right now, if you're lucky. No guarantee (once you arrive at the restaurant) that too many servers were scheduled, and one or two will be sent home....and then there's the whole tip out deal.

So to try to answer the obvious question-why does one choose to be a server? Students who really need a flexible schedule, parents who are able to work out child care during particular hours, there are any number of reasons.

Servers work hard, and they generally really do want their customers to have a great experience. It's not volunteer work, though. They don't expect to get wealthy, they just want to be fairly compensated.
If the service stinks, then the customer should say so-talk to the manager.

If one really hates the whole idea of tipping, then there are a couple of great options. Lots of nice restaurants do carryout these days. At Disney, there is a wide range of counter service.

 

[jvnoledawg]

*

 

[TLSnell1981]

It was my understanding Disney took gratuity off the dining plan because they had complaints of bad service. The waitstaff had no incentive to be good becuase they were getting a guaranteed 18% from dining plan guests. This decision appears to fly in the face of that logic. Meaning the dining plan change was only to put more money in DISNEY's pocket. This change was not for better service. Anyone think we will receive better service once the wait staff is guaranteed 18% with everyone that walks in the door? I am for free enterprise a great server should be rewarded. On our last trip, even though we had the dining plan there were several occasions were additional tip was added to servers who went above and beyond.

I believe the gratuity was removed from the DDP because of the free dining that is offered from time to time at WDW. Disney was giving you the DDP for free....that means free food and Disney was also paying the gratuity. The union didn't like this so they threw the servers the bone of the automatic service charge being added to DDE and all parties over 5.

Some don't care.....I think this is just the beginning......stay tuned!

 

[Cdn Friends of Pooh]

This is not true. They ask you up front if you are using the DP or the DDE. When you ask for the bill then they ask for the card. During our trip in August even when I made dining ressies over the phone they asked if I was using the DP or DDE. Trust me, they want to know everything up front.

When making our ADRs for both our May and October trips we were asked if we were on the dining plan, but were never asked if we had the DDE card. Also when just showing up at a TS restaurants several times without an ADR in both May and October, we were always asked if we were on the DP, but never if we had the DDE card.

 

[Sammie]

I thought the reason Disney was taking the gratuity out of the dining plan was to allow people to tip based on service. This really seems like the dining plan becomes worse of a bargin as Disney makes changes to other policies. I do not mind tipping for great service, but if I remember Pete's comments correctly he starts at 15% and then up or down based on service. I agree this should be the norm, not required. Maybe this was also in the negotiations with park employees that they would get a guaranteed tip. This will now limit my TS ADR's. Also at a buffet does any server really deserve 18%? Disney needs to rethink this one.

Taking the tip out of the DDP was never based on service, it was a contract negotiation. As to tipping at buffets, the only difference in a buffet wait staff and full service, is bringing the food to the table, does that truly warrant a reduction in tipping.

 

[Bill From PA]

the only difference in a buffet wait staff and full service, is bringing the food to the table, does that truly warrant a reduction in tipping.

Absolutely. At the very least, bringing food to my table is 1/3 of the task of table service, hauling away the empties and filling drinks the other two thirds. To carry it further, I tip bartenders for every round I buy, but as a percentage, that tip is below that of a buffet waitstaff tip. In my world it's 20% for full service, usually rounded up if I'm using cash, around 15% for a buffet where I schlep my food from chafing dish to my table and about 10% for the guy/gal who spends 30 seconds filling 2 mugs with suds, more if my wife orders some umbrella drink.

Bill From PA

 

[mom2my3kids]

hasn't the question of gratuity been beated to death yet? if you don't like the pay, get an education and get a real job... till then, take what ya get.

I love your dog, but please don't act like I am a not educated because I choose to serve tables. If it was not for servers you would be eating at home or eating fast food. You may say you are not pointing your comment at me, but yes you are because I am a server. I love my job most of the time, I love talking to people and meeting new people. Do I get the occasional a@@ of course, but I know how to take care of those people. Do I agree with the 18% automatically added on NO I don't I like to leave a good tip if I get good service. Is good service someone doing back flips for me, and standing next to my table waiting for my beck and call NO. Do I think everyone should leave 15-20% of the bill for good service YES. Do I believe everyone will, NO there are people out there that are ignorant of the serving business and people who don't care. Am I going to change there minds? NO I try to give everyone the best service possible to make the most money I can on any given day. Please people most servers out there are trying to bust there butt to make good money and they realize is they mess up so does the money. Call me what you want, but don't call me uneducated please. I do have a college education. But my last two classes have been put on hold for a few years until my youngest is in school. Sorry I had to respond when someone insults me.

 

[lilyv]

I love your dog, but please don't act like I am a not educated because I choose to serve tables. If it was not for servers you would be eating at home or eating fast food. You may say you are not pointing your comment at me, but yes you are because I am a server. I love my job most of the time, I love talking to people and meeting new people. Do I get the occasional a@@ of course, but I know how to take care of those people. Do I agree with the 18% automatically added on NO I don't I like to leave a good tip if I get good service. Is good service someone doing back flips for me, and standing next to my table waiting for my beck and call NO. Do I think everyone should leave 15-20% of the bill for good service YES. Do I believe everyone will, NO there are people out there that are ignorant of the serving business and people who don't care. Am I going to change there minds? NO I try to give everyone the best service possible to make the most money I can on any given day. Please people most servers out there are trying to bust there butt to make good money and they realize is they mess up so does the money. Think about it, you have two tables both sat at the same time. One table is the Jones they are good tippers and the other table are the Norton's they don't tip at all but keep coming in. Who do you think I am going to go to first? Call me what you want, but don't call me uneducated please. I do have a college education. But my last two classes have been put on hold for a few years until my youngest is in school. Sorry I had to respond when someone insults me.

So glad you posted! I can tell you love your job-and that you're a very caring, responsible server. I don't understand why anyone assumes they "know" an individual servers situation-or why it's any of their business.

DD has a (thankfully few) funny stories about patrons who decide it's time to tell her how life is, and she should get with it and get an education. She just smiles and nods, and thanks them for the advice. She wait tables because it allows her to earn some money with a flexible schedule. As she laughingly puts it, "I'll be done with law school in 6 months, and they'll probably still be ASSUMING I need to get my act together."

 

[mom2my3kids]

So glad you posted! I can tell you love your job-and that you're a very caring, responsible server. I don't understand why anyone assumes they "know" an individual servers situation-or why it's any of their business.

DD has a (thankfully few) funny stories about patrons who decide it's time to tell her how life is, and she should get with it and get an education. She just smiles and nods, and thanks them for the advice. She wait tables because it allows her to earn some money with a flexible schedule. As she laughingly puts it, "I'll be done with law school in 6 months, and they'll probably still be ASSUMING I need to get my act together."

Thank You.. You are right, I love the flexibility of it all. I need a Monday off because one of my kids are sick, I can get it off. I need 3 weeks off for a Disney trip I can have it off. Sure I don't get the benefits but it works for me right now. It helps put food on the table, clothes on my kids backs and a Disney vacation once a year I am going to tell you this story, at work our hostess she is young and just got married. We were in the break room talking and I asked her where her husband worked. You could tell she got uncomfortable and she said McDonald's. Then she started saying how he is going to be making more money when they move him up and how she was embarrassed he worked there. I told her that there was nothing to be embarrassed at, heck he was out there working and making a honest dollar. She is only 18 and we really had a good conversation that day. No job is beneath anyone a job is a job in my eyes..
Thanks again..

 

[DisneyFans4]

When making our ADRs for both our May and October trips we were asked if we were on the dining plan, but were never asked if we had the DDE card. Also when just showing up at a TS restaurants several times without an ADR in both May and October, we were always asked if we were on the DP, but never if we had the DDE card.

I don't know what to tell you but that was my experience this past August. Even when DH and I showed up at the booth to checkin they actually asked me again whether I had the DP or DDE.

 

[Minnie's Mate]

I just listened to another podcast about Disney and one of the podcasters reported that someone had written the DDE and asked what should they do if they wanted to decide how much tip should be left and Disney replied that they should just ask that the 18% be removed so they could leave the amount they thought appropriate.

Well, why not just let us do that in the first place! (rhetorical question, I know why) Disney is banking on the overwhelming majority of patrons just accepting this without question. They think that virtually everyone will want to avoid confrontation on their vacation; who will want to make a scene in front of their family and a bunch of strangers (like that should matter) while trying to relax and escape the normal stresses in their lives (isn't that why we go on vacation in the first place?).

I think Disney's long term plan is to get everybody used to the idea of tipping at 18% so that becomes the standard at Disney and people will just have the mindset that "at Disney, the standard is 18% just because you're at Disney, but everywhere else it's still 15%." But you know, when you think about it, I did some math on an earlier post and I was thinking, $18 is a lot of money for someone on Disney property to do the same job (take our orders and bring the food and refill our beverages, etc.) as they do at say the Olive Garden just outside the Eastern Gate on Apopka-Vineland. What kind of tips do they get for a meal there...$9-$10 for a $50 bill. Why should the server on Disney property get twice the tip for the same amount of work just because the food on the plate cost twice as much and they drive maybe two miles further to work?

Sammie has alluded to contract negotiations on more than one instance. I don't know if he/she is a cast member or where the information comes from, but I don't see how the union would single out the DDE for something like this. To single out this program is discriminatory and wouldn't stand up in court so I don't see how they could make Disney require just the DDE to have this "mandatory" add-on. I'm not saying that the union wouldn't come up with some sort of weird demands, but even they should know you can't single out one group over another.

I can see Disney dropping the gratuity from being included in the DDP since that gives them a "hidden" 18% price increase (they didn't do a very good job of hiding it did they) and it saves them money when they decide to give the DDE for free to entice people to stay on property, but this DDE gratuity isn't hidden at all. When we go to WDW after the first of the year, I can assure that I will avoid answering the question "Will you be using the Disney Dinning Experience today?" question like the plague if they start asking that every where we dine. I won't lie, but unless the mater' d' holds up a Bible before we're seated and asks me if 'I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth while I dine at Disney', I will see nothing wrong with reserving some information for later disclosure.

 

[DisneyFans4]

I finally got a response from Guest Services and of course they didn't give me the answers I wanted. They told me they would send my comments to the appropriate department as they take all comments very seriously. Hopefully if enough of us send them an e-mail they will rethink this.

 

[avic77]

Put a little mini-whiteboard on your table, and write the number 18 on it. Say nothing. During the meal, cross out the 18 and put a 17. Then do the same and put a 16. Then maybe put it back to 17. Then really freak them out and put a 23. Then end the meal on a 12.

My grandfather did something like this. He would put $10.00 in ones on the table and when his server came he would tell her for any time he had to flag her down and request a refill he would remove a $1. He would add $1 if she stopped and refilled when the cups where only 1/2 emopty or if she brought coffe at the end of the meal.
Granted this was some 20 years ago, but he always got favorable service.

 

[kaytieeldr]

OK, I've never done this, but always thought it was funny.

Funny to us, maybe - but somewhat degrading to the server? Plus, if the diner kept lowering the number, wouldn't service tend to get worse as a result?

about the changes Disney makes. They take $1.off the dining plan, remove the appetizer, and add the tax and tip. Now this change to the "experience" program to put it in line with other programs...WHICH other programs, please.

Okay, I think 'programs' such as the Fantasmic! Dining package, and the Candlelight Processional dining package, and some Food & Wine special events, and the dinner shows, and Cinderella's Royal Table... I think the actual wording about the change states "... in line with other dining experiences WHERE the tip is included". Also, just FYI, the tax has always been and will in 2008 continue to be included in the price the Guest pays for the Disney Dining Plans.

It was my understanding Disney took gratuity off the dining plan because they had complaints of bad service. The waitstaff had no incentive to be good becuase they were getting a guaranteed 18% from dining plan guests. This decision appears to fly in the face of that logic.

ONLY if the restaurants start asking up front if the diner will be using the DDE. Otherwise, the server won't know the difference between a DDE diner and an OOP diner.

This is not true. They ask you up front if you are using the DP or the DDE.

That has to be new in the last two months. I've NEVER been asked about if I was using the Disney Dining Experience or any other discount. I HAVE been asked (on the phone this year, at the restaurants last year) if I was on the Disney Dining PLAN.

Sammie has alluded to contract negotiations on more than one instance. I don't know if he/she is a cast member or where the information comes from, but I don't see how the union would single out the DDE for something like this.

Sammie is not a Cast Member. There was a GREAT deal of 'discussion' about the tipping changes back a few months ago, when a Disney server started posting the upcoming changes on the Restaurant board. THAT'S how Sammie knows about the contract negotiations. And the union didn't single out the DDE - that was DISNEY'S doing. And it's not discriminatory, because there ARE other dining experiences where the Guest is required to pay an 18% tip - often at the time of the reservation, i.e. WAY before the meal. Weeks. Months. And there is absolutely no way to determine in June what kind of service you'll get in December.

 

[Sammie]

I am not a CM, I do have many CM friends.

The servers did not request the change, they did not necessarily even want the change, however the change was due to contract negotiations. And that negotiation included more than just food and beverage servers. Of those friends some are hourly and some are upper management, so I get info from both quarters.

Unless you are privy to the details of the contract negotiations it is a difficult situation to understand, as it was very involved. You can not just pick one part of the negotiations such as DDE and make any comment to the affect without knowing all the precise details of the negotiations. Unless you have been involved personally with union negotiatons it is a foreign land at best to most.

Disney took away the tip from the DDP, they gave it back in the DDE.

 

[pschnebs]

My goal isn't to start a flame war or be a troll, so I'll respond to kayteieeldr's post and shut up about this (and my apologies in advance, kaytieeldr - I'm not trying to single you out or anything...)

Please tell your fiancee that FEDERAL minimum wage (which, granted, can be superceded by individual states' minimum wages) for restaurant servers is $2.13 an hour..

I think it absolutely stinks that servers get ripped off like that under Federal law. But guess who lobbied Congress for their minimum wage to be that low? It wasn't the servers, to be sure.

Ask your fiancee - if she only had to pay her employees X dollars an hour, would she instead pay them a reasonable (i.e. living) wage?.

I'll answer for me instead of her in this case. I agree - I think that people SHOULD be paid a decent living wage, regardless of what job they do. But shouldn't that be the employer's responsibility? Why is it my responsibility as a customer to make sure that the server earns the decent salary that the server's boss doesn't want to pay them?

Also please ask her why, given that she KNOWS all this - low wage + tips - why she bothers patronizing ANY business with this practice? By the way - California is one of the states that requires restaurants to pay servers the ACTUAL minimum wage. I think it's what, about $6.50 now? So a full-time server would earn just over $13,000 per year - total. But at least nobody 'has' to tip in California restaurants.

And, there are other (payroll tax) costs to the employer when they raise wages. An 18% raise in pay could translate into a 25% or higher increase in the food prices. And that increases the tax the consumer pays.

Unfortunately, if you want someone in CA to have a decent living under the current way of things, you STILL have to tip. Someone trying to live on $13,000 a year out here isn't gonna last very long...

As far as the tax costs to the employer: That's a cost of doing business, and frankly, if it costs that much extra to ensure that the person serving me makes a decent living, that's a cost I'm willing to pay. But again, why should a customer be required to directly subsidize a worker's salary because the employer doesn't want to incur an additional financial burden - in this case, a burden they'd have to face if they were in just about any other line of business?