18% Gratutiy

[kaytieeldr]

No need to apologize to me, pschnebs - you make a number of valid points and present your views thoughtfully .

So, I'm not going to argue with anything you said. I would like to address your last point, though - the customer ALWAYS subsidizes the worker's salary. Sure, in most cases not as directly as tipping - but I refer back to the price increase necessity. Is it more palatable to pay $40 for the steak that cost you $30 last week because the increase is going to the server through the employer instead of directly? And I realize the increased payroll taxes are a cost of doing business - but the business owner is likely going to pass on ALL increases to the customer.

 

[toothdoc]

According to Disney, the above is incorrect.

This new 18% gratuity will be across the board. It will be added to each and every check at all Disney restuarants regardless of party size or whether you are using a DDE card or not.

This will not include counter service restaurants or carts.

This information comes directly from the folks at the Disney Dining Experience and Guest Relations.

Let's go back to page 1 and Kevin's comments. It is 18% across the board. Therefore I ask once again if I know I am getting 18% from everyone I wait on (irregardless of dining plan or DDE) then what is my incentive to do a good job. The "Me" generation of kids now waiting on us for the most part does not have the same work ethic or drive as their elders. I do NOT mind paying gratuity when it has been earned, and under the dining plan have tipped on top of the 18%. We had a great waiter at Breakfastosaurus and another one at Liberty Tree Tavern. They deserved the extra gratuity we gave. However, we have also had terrible service, while I am not one to leave a $1 tip, I feel 10% is resonable. Either a person will wake up and do better in the future or they do not have the right work ethic. Also the waiters who earned extra tips where seasoned veterans who had been at ths for a long time. Making my first point about the "Me" generation.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Let's go back to page 1 and Kevin's comments. It is 18% across the board

But you also need to look at the DATE of Kevin's comments - last Friday, the day the original e-mail was sent, to DDE members ONLY.

The clarification e-mail sent the next day, as well, as posts from at least one Cast Member, and several DISers who have WDW contacts, state that the 18% whatever-you-want-to-call-it applies to DDE members using the DDE discount at table service restaurants property-wide.

You therefore do NOT know from whom you're getting the automatic service fee, unless the party consists of at least six people.

 

[TLSnell1981]

But you also need to look at the DATE of Kevin's comments - last Friday, the day the original e-mail was sent, to DDE members ONLY.

The clarification e-mail sent the next day, as well, as posts from at least one Cast Member, and several DISers who have WDW contacts, state that the 18% whatever-you-want-to-call-it applies to DDE members using the DDE discount at table service restaurants property-wide.

You therefore do NOT know from whom you're getting the automatic service fee, unless the party consists of at least six people.

I believe that's exactly where we are getting it from! The reverse is ONLY guests with a party of 5 or less or counter service meals are exempt from the new service charge.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Okay, first, when I said "You therefore do NOT know from whom you're getting the automatic service fee", I was referring to the SERVER (the person getting or not getting the 18%), not to the diner. The diner isn't getting anything, except the food. I was not referring to the DIS members/readers.

The reverse is actually:
Guests at counter service locations.
Parties of five or fewer paying with cash (or credit card, or room charge).
Parties of five or fewer using the Disney Dining Plan.

The ONLY Guests incurring the 18% automatic charge are:
Guests using the Disney Dining Experience.
Parties of six or more.

 

[Minnie's Mate]

According to Disney, you also have the right to request that the 18% be removed from your bill. That's a pain if you are eager to get back to your park touring, but if you object to Disney setting your gratuity amount for you then you certainly have the right to do so. If enough DDE patrons do this during January, Disney will have to revise their policy as they sent out a clarification e-mail after the backlash from non-DDE Disney fans who objected to an "across the board" policy that would have affected them.

BTW, Sammie, I wasn't meaning to be critical of you and your information. I just don't spend as much time on the boards as I used to and hadn't seen the info about the mandatory gratuity vs. contract negotiations in June and wanted to know where you were getting your information from since you didn't include that in any of your post.

 

[lilyv]

According to Disney, you also have the right to request that the 18% be removed from your bill. That's a pain if you are eager to get back to your park touring, but if you object to Disney setting your gratuity amount for you then you certainly have the right to do so. If enough DDE patrons do this during January, Disney will have to revise their policy as they sent out a clarification e-mail after the backlash from non-DDE Disney fans who objected to an "across the board" policy that would have affected them.

BTW, Sammie, I wasn't meaning to be critical of you and your information. I just don't spend as much time on the boards as I used to and hadn't seen the info about the mandatory gratuity vs. contract negotiations in June and wanted to know where you were getting your information from since you didn't include that in any of your post.

Hmmmm. Don't know about this one. I could easily see a scenario where patron demands the removal of the 18% charge, and the management says, "Sure, you can certainly tip as you see fit, just as any other guest does without the DDE discount." Then, they'd recalculate the bill, add back the 20% discount and let you do as you please.

These issues matter to me, as I had already budgeted to purchase an annual pass. We were planning to use DDE. Once all the new "rules" came to light, I decided to just say not to the annual pass and DDE-we're going to opt for just paying cash. Seems to me to be far less hassle, and quite possibly better service.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Okay here's a thought...what if Disney didn't make the gratuity "automatic" but merely included a line on your bill saying "This amount is 18% of your bill" - a suggested tip amount if you will, or included a tip calculator chart with your bill showing 18% of various bill amounts?

I don't love the idea of having 18% automatically added, but I also think that under the DDP, guests will need some help in determining the proper tip amount. I'm not pointing to any of you, but c'mon, the average guest out there is not that great at doing the math. In all fairness to the servers, the average guest on DDP is not going to pay much attention to the cost of their meal and what the customary tip should be, based on the food they are ordering. Regardless of whether they would ordinarily leave 10, 15 or 20% - as per there personal preference, I anticipate that the average guest would seriously underestimate the amount of their bill - and the amount of their tip - unless they SOMEHOW see it in print at the end of their meal.

My experience as a server and a guest supports this - especially when there are large parties. How many times have you gone to dinner with a large group and everyone puts in their amount and the total comes up short? It's because everyone has to calculate the total of their meal in their head. It happens nearly every time I've dined in a group, no matter who the group of people happens to be (family, friends, co-workers). Either that or the total comes up way over what it should be, but that is pretty rare. Most of the time the total comes up short unless the restaurant creates the check in such a way that each person can see their personal total with [at least] the tax included.

 

[lilyv]

Okay here's a thought...what if Disney didn't make the gratuity "automatic" but merely included a line on your bill saying "This amount is 18% of your bill" - a suggested tip amount if you will, or included a tip calculator chart with your bill showing 18% of various bill amounts?

I don't love the idea of having 18% automatically added, but I also think that under the DDP, guests will need some help in determining the proper tip amount. I'm not pointing to any of you, but c'mon, the average guest out there is not that great at doing the math. In all fairness to the servers, the average guest on DDP is not going to pay much attention to the cost of their meal and what the customary tip should be, based on the food they are ordering. Regardless of whether they would ordinarily leave 10, 15 or 20% - as per there personal preference, I anticipate that the average guest would seriously underestimate the amount of their bill - and the amount of their tip - unless they SOMEHOW see it in print at the end of their meal.

My experience as a server and a guest supports this - especially when there are large parties. How many times have you gone to dinner with a large group and everyone puts in their amount and the total comes up short? It's because everyone has to calculate the total of their meal in their head. It happens nearly every time I've dined in a group, no matter who the group of people happens to be (family, friends, co-workers). Either that or the total comes up way over what it should be, but that is pretty rare. Most of the time the total comes up short unless the restaurant creates the check in such a way that each person can see their personal total with [at least] the tax included.

You make some great points. Your suggestion would be quite helpful to guests. The one thing that I really can't figure out is why did Disney decide to take aim at the DDE???? These guests bought the annual pass, they paid their 65.00, and most on the DDE spend a decent amount at nice table service restaurants. I have no doubt that most on this program tip well.

Meanwhile on the DDP next year, I predict tips are going to be all over the place, from 0.00, because the patron thinks they are still included, to minimal, if the patron tips based on 1/3 of the daily DDP cost, to, occasionally fair when a guest actually tips based on the cost of the meal.

I can't figure out why Disney would want to treat the two programs differently, tip wise. I sorta get all the union stuff, but I think, in the end, the goal should be to standardize, and not have one this way, and one that way.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Okay here's a thought...what if Disney didn't make the gratuity "automatic" but merely included a line on your bill saying "This amount is 18% of your bill" - a suggested tip amount if you will, or included a tip calculator chart with your bill showing 18% of various bill amounts?

I don't love the idea of having 18% automatically added, but I also think that under the DDP, guests will need some help in determining the proper tip amount. I'm not pointing to any of you, but c'mon, the average guest out there is not that great at doing the math.

Yeah, okay, it's a reasonable and sensible suggestion. The chart could even include 15% and 20% (and 25%), in addition to the eighteen. If it included a range - e.g.
............................15%........18%.........20%
$9.01 - $10.00:.......$1.50......$1.80......$2.00
$10.01 - $11.00 ......$1.65......$1.98......$2.20
etc., it could probably fit on a room-key-sized laminated card.

But at least for now - likely even all of next year - the 18% is (relatively) mandatory when the diner uses the DDE card. I say relatively, because it has been pointed out that the diner will be able to amend it in extreme cases (poor service vs. "I just don't want to pay that".

It's because everyone has to calculate the total of their meal in their head. It happens nearly every time I've dined in a group, no matter who the group of people happens to be (family, friends, co-workers). Either that or the total comes up way over what it should be, but that is pretty rare.

Which is another advantage of buffets
Several years ago, we had a reservation for about 25 people at Boma. Well in advance, we calculated each person's cost including tax and tip, and sent that amount to the individual responsible for that dinner. Worked perfectly

You make some great points. Your suggestion would be quite helpful to guests. The one thing that I really can't figure out is why did Disney decide to take aim at the DDE????

With no facts to support my opinions , this could be a precursor to a genuine across the board mandatory tip/gratuity/service charge. Couple of reasons to answer your actual question: First, there are likely far fewer DDE members than DDP participants - start small. Second, small steps - first let the DDP diner get accustomed to being responsible for the tip; once we're used to it, then mandate the percentage.

 

[disrailfan]

I don't love the idea of having 18% automatically added, but I also think that under the DDP, guests will need some help in determining the proper tip amount. I'm not pointing to any of you, but c'mon, the average guest out there is not that great at doing the math. In all fairness to the servers, the average guest on DDP is not going to pay much attention to the cost of their meal and what the customary tip should be, based on the food they are ordering. Regardless of whether they would ordinarily leave 10, 15 or 20% - as per there personal preference, I anticipate that the average guest would seriously underestimate the amount of their bill - and the amount of their tip - unless they SOMEHOW see it in print at the end of their meal.

I see your point when you are talking about the DDP but this email was directed at DDE (E=Experience). On DDE you get the whole bill including what it cost before your discount. The problem here is that most people don't understand that the customary tip should be calculated based on the total minus sales tax before any discounts. This is where the problem lies, people are tipping 18% based on the amount after the 20% discount. This can be a huge loss for a waiter or waitress especially if like me you had a large alcohol (wine) bill.

Just my 2 cents. This goes back to the old a few ruin things for the majority. Typically we tip more than 18% for good service, and I have NEVER had BAD service at any TS venues.

DisRailFan (Milford)

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Good points DisRailfan. I sort of was combining the two in my head...

 

[Minnie's Mate]

Hmmmm. Don't know about this one. I could easily see a scenario where patron demands the removal of the 18% charge, and the management says, "Sure, you can certainly tip as you see fit, just as any other guest does without the DDE discount." Then, they'd recalculate the bill, add back the 20% discount and let you do as you please.

I don't think they could do either. You've paid for the use of the card so you could demand a refund of the $65 you paid for the card...that's what I'll do if this happens. And by law, gratuity is voluntary so they can't make you pay it. According to one of the other Disney pod cast, Disney Dining Experience said you could have it removed.

 

[disrailfan]

Yeah, okay, it's a reasonable and sensible suggestion. The chart could even include 15% and 20% (and 25%), in addition to the eighteen. If it included a range - e.g.
............................15%........18%.........20%
$9.01 - $10.00:.......$1.50......$1.80......$2.00
$10.01 - $11.00 ......$1.65......$1.98......$2.20
etc., it could probably fit on a room-key-sized laminated card.

This is something similar to what they used to have in the front of the little bill portfolios that they gave you with the bill. The front flap of the little bill folder (Yeah it probably has an official name) had a slip of card stock that had a short gratuity chart on it. They should have tried going back to this and on the card they could have had the subnote that gratuity should be calculated from the bill minus sales tax but before any discounts.

 

[TLSnell1981]

While these things may be practical...that's not even an optiona at this time. These mandatory service charges are part of an agreement with the union. We can complain (and I've done my share) but the reality of the situation is....this is the way it's going to be.

 

[dpuck1998]

Just wanted to throw this out there...this morning while dining (breakfast) at the Omni hotel in chicago, a 20% gratuity was added to my bill for a party of 6. Apparently this is the new 8 and 20 is the new 15. I actually added over a 20 percent tip before I noticed the tip was already added. So my waitress lost money on the deal! My service was excellent so I didn't consider having it removed, but I wish they would have at least told me about it. I thought it was interesting since Disney is getting so much flak about.

 

[mickeywho?]

The latest reply to my email to Disney regarding this:

Thank you for contacting us.

Although we regret your disappointment with the adjustments made to the
Disney Dining Experience Membership Program beginning January 1, 2008,
we want to assure you that your remarks have been shared with the
appropriate individuals.

Our guests' impressions are very important to us, and we appreciate the
time you took to share your thoughts. We look forward to future
opportunities to entertain you.

Sincerely,

Executive Offices
Walt Disney World Resort

 

[DisneyFans4]

The latest reply to my email to Disney regarding this:

Thank you for contacting us.

Although we regret your disappointment with the adjustments made to the
Disney Dining Experience Membership Program beginning January 1, 2008,
we want to assure you that your remarks have been shared with the
appropriate individuals.

Our guests' impressions are very important to us, and we appreciate the
time you took to share your thoughts. We look forward to future
opportunities to entertain you.

Sincerely,

Executive Offices
Walt Disney World Resort

This was the same exact response I got when I e-mailed guest services

 

[pinkerbell]

I have not been able to read every post, but let me piece together a few thoughts. When you are mandated to leave a certian %, it is NOT a gratuity and I for one will push disney to start using a more appropriate terminology. Some have mentioned that the customer always pays in the end, even whe tips are not included in a business by price increases. True but disney has done both, raise menu prices and impose policy on what must be left to a server. Lastly, come on folks... this is still park food! It may be better than some chains, but it is still mass produced, and in many cases like deserts, stuck in a freezer and then presented when ordered. It is not bad food, but the prices really are high enough for what you get, to say that more couldn't be going to the servers is just wrong. Like a previous poster, I too will be expecting the best service possible. I feel for the wait staff and believe that disney does a disservice to us all by pitting us against each other this way. I truly do not believe that the majority of guests at Disney do not tip generously, and dislike it highly when the few are used to set the example against the majority. I knwo Disney is in the business of making money, and I applaud them when they get it right, but not this time.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I have not been able to read every post, but let me piece together a few thoughts. When you are mandated to leave a certian %, it is NOT a gratuity and I for one will push disney to start using a more appropriate terminology

And that's fine.
- Start an e-mail campaign to get Disney to use the correct terminology.
- Keep it brief and to the point.
- Use bullet points.
- Have all participants use the same format, or even wording.

But Disney is NOT going to change the procedure. As for prices going up - yes, they did, do, and will. Price increases generally reflect cost increases.

Somebody in another thread, complaining about Coronado Springs, included the $9.75 burger and fries. I checked the most recent online menu, at www.wdwinfo.com. In August 2006, the same combo plate was $8.50. This is a 15% increase (technically, 1% per month but I'd think it involved one or two larger, more spread out, increases).

At any rate, if Disney WERE to increase food prices to pay servers the actual minimum wage, this meal would have increased an ADDITIONAL 20%-33%. Now, your $9.75 burger plate costs $11.70 or $12.40 or $13.00.