13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

[barkley]

The family will argue, as they have already, that it is a question of "fact" whether Jahi is dead or alive. They will therefore claim that the jury gets to decide this question, and not the court. I can, unfortunately, easily see a jury which would decide that she was "alive" and therefore the hospital must pay for on-going care. All you have to do is read the comments on their FB page to see that there are a significant number of people who do not understand, or choose not to believe, the fact that she is dead. Dead. Dead.

It would be absurd, but having personally faced juries in California, I can tell you that anything is possible. I would hope the Court would decide the issue as a matter of law, but I think that is far from certain unfortunately.

if you read through the 'keep jahi mcmath on life support' fb page it's apparent that not all support the family's position. there's a good bit of argument back and forth.

I've been following the news coverage in the bay area papers where seemingly a trial would be held if suit is brought forth (unless they go for a change of venue), and it doesn't appear (imho) that there's what I would call overwhelming support of the family's actions, the comment sections are overwhelmingly critical of the family (compassionate about the situation, negative about their actions). combine that with only a total of 1329 WORLD WIDE donors to the transport fund, 40 signatures on 1 petition and 277 on another and it doesn't seem like the majority of even bay area residents are in the family's camp.

I just think about how with so many situations when I lived in the bay area I saw churches and activists rally around a person/cause, hold public events and raise funds. in this case I haven't seen it-the one event that the church the family belongs to was cancelled and never rescheduled.

 

[lsyorke]

This article talks about a "facility in New York" again...I don't believe they have anything set up at this point.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...lp-girl-not-play-god-20140105,0,3366758.story

 

[Lorelei Lee]

This article talks about a "facility in New York" again...I don't believe they have anything set up at this point.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-jahi-mcmaths-family-we-want-to-help-girl-not-play-god-20140105,0,3366758.story

Old news.

 

[Lanshark]

What are the possible outcomes?

1. They turn off the vent by their own choice. I don't see this happening. There are too many people involved at this point for the parents to reverse their thinking even if they felt so inclined.

2. They are forced to turn off the vent. Again, if this was going to happen I think it would have already.

3. They find someplace to take her. Not likely.

4. Her heart gives out

5. She is miraculously healed. Don't think so

Did I miss anything? In all reasonable cases the child is still unfortunately dead and an astronomical amount of money is being spent to appease these grieving parents because they cannot come to terms with this horrific situation. Are all parents, siblings, spouses and children afforded this luxury (and I use the terms loosely but you know what I mean) when a loved one dies? I cannot imagine the anguish for these parents but this has become a circus with a still breathing dead child in the middle.

 

[lsyorke]

Old news.

From today 1/5/14 at 9:04am

 

[phorsenuf]

This article talks about a "facility in New York" again...I don't believe they have anything set up at this point.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...lp-girl-not-play-god-20140105,0,3366758.story

From the article;

"I will always fight for Jahi until she is ready to go, her own self. I can't play God. She's going to get better or she's not, but I see her getting better," Winkfield told reporters Friday night, according to the San Francisco Chronicle.


If this is how she feels then take her off the vent. If she's ready to go, then that will be the ultimate test so to speak. And by her (the mother) keeping her (Jahi) on the vent, isn't that in a sense playing God?

 

[Lorelei Lee]

From today 1/5/14 at 9:04am

Reporter not updating information. The facility in NY was never viable but now has stopped sugfesting that they will take her. The place has no licenses and is not run by medical personnel, and the hairdresser CEO has changed her tune under publuc scrutiny. Reporter hasn't bothered to follow up.

 

[hereyago]

One life is lost, but possibly another can be saved. It doesn't matter "how far along" the baby is...

Once again, this is or should be about Marlise's rights and wishes, not about a 14 week old fetus that "may" end up all right or not. The only 2 people that should make that call are the ones who create it, not a legislature.

Hey you don' t even have to be dead for "powers that be" to get involved:
Read about Angela Carder, Amber Marlowe, Laura Pemberton then let me know how you would like to have a pregnant loved one either forced to have a c section even taken from their home like Laura or a hospital go to court for guardianship of an unborn baby because a mom wants a second opinion.


Patient's rights are not to have "certain restrictions apply", they are to be cut and dry. You have a DNR, means don't pound on the chest, break ribs and what else to bring you back, no like the case in Pennsylvania of a man in hospice who tried to kill himself then the hospice nurse call the ambulance, how dare he kill himself when he is all ready dying. He was brought back mad as heck and died again a few days later. There should be no involvement from sue scared or worse yet fragile ego hospital or doctors, let alone any level of government in your personal business when it comes to medical care or rights.

 

[hereyago]

And, as I said before, it is the same political faction who is aghast at parts of the ACA as an unlawful intrusion into their lives. I can imagine no greater intrusion, however, than the government hooking my body up to machines to keep it going...despite my EXPRESS wishes, the wishes of my husband and the wishes of all other members of my family. It is horrible.

Anyone against government intrusion should be screaming loudly about this. But strangely, they are silent.

I think a lot of it is because Mr. Munoz hasn't gone full force to the media like Jahi's family. I read an article of Marlise Munoz's mom said that when it's done Mr. Munoz is going to be suing to try to change the law, but he needs to be doing it now.

I think some people who may against intrusion are having a hard time of it being a baby, but still as I posted in response to TSnell's post, this is about the patient's rights and wishes and no one but the people who created it should have a call in it.

People like that don't understand or grasp that it's not just about a pregnant woman, more cases have come to the attention of the media about patient's rights being tossed out whether it is a "law" or a sue scared hospital or doctor or ones with fragile egos( which actually are more scary then the sue scared ones).

 

[TLSnell1981]

Once again, this is or should be about Marlise's rights and wishes, not about a 14 week old fetus that "may" end up all right or not. The only 2 people that should make that call are the ones who create it, not a legislature.

Sorry, I disagree. Marlise is gone, but the child is still viable. I believe in protecting life, even the unborn.

 

[hereyago]

So this place in Oregon is going to take a minor child's body as a donation?

 

[JanaDee]

Once again, this is or should be about Marlise's rights and wishes, not about a 14 week old fetus that "may" end up all right or not. The only 2 people that should make that call are the ones who create it, not a legislature.


Sorry, I disagree. Marlise is gone, but the child is still viable. I believe in protecting life, even the unborn.

Whether the fetus is viable or not after being possibly deprived of oxygen for an hour or more is arguable.

 

[hereyago]

Once again, this is or should be about Marlise's rights and wishes, not about a 14 week old fetus that "may" end up all right or not. The only 2 people that should make that call are the ones who create it, not a legislature.


Sorry, I disagree. Marlise is gone, but the child is still viable. I believe in protecting life, even the unborn.

at the time Marlise died, it was an hour or more without oxygen to the fetus. The doctors do not know yet if it is 1)viable 2) know if there will be any defects.

This is not about if it happened to you or a loved one in this situation, because the only ones who should have a say are the ones who created it. Patient's rights and wishes are not about what other people would do.



May I ask did you google the names on my last post or you just believe no matter what a woman should be dragged from her home in labor with her legs put together to be made to have a c section just because a doctor doesn't want to try a natural birth?

So say you have a DNR in place, someone disregards it because they want to try to "protect" life, would you be ok with it? somehow I doubt it. You put that in place for a reason, you made your wishes known, Marlise made her wishes known as well.

So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, but I do respect your belief, I don't agree with it in this case, but I do respect it.

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

But a 14 week old fetus is not viable.
If a person was having a miscarriage at 14 weeks, the baby would not try and be saved.

When I worked OB , a viable baby was 24 weeks, ( may have changed) i could see if Marlise 's baby was close to a safe age to be delivered but its not even close, plus its against the wishes of the family.

 

[TLSnell1981]

But a 14 week old fetus is not viable.
If a person was having a miscarriage at 14 weeks, the baby would not try and be saved.

When I worked OB , a viable baby was 24 weeks, ( may have changed) i could see if Marlise 's baby was close to a safe age to be delivered but its not even close, plus its against the wishes of the family.

The Belgium senate voted to allow parents to euthanize their disabled children. This also applies to people with dementia. They are euthanizing depressed folks too. Absolutely no value placed on human life. It frightening AND disturbing. IMHO

Slippery slope, very dangerous...

 

[DisneyFan32WI]

I hope the doctors do everything they possibly can to save that little baby.

 

[JanaDee]

Slippery slope, very dangerous...

I agree, especially when an individual's wishes for their own body are disregarded and dismissed by a state that believes it should have final say over a woman's body.

 

[hereyago]

But a 14 week old fetus is not viable.
If a person was having a miscarriage at 14 weeks, the baby would not try and be saved.

When I worked OB , a viable baby was 24 weeks, ( may have changed) i could see if Marlise 's baby was close to a safe age to be delivered but its not even close, plus its against the wishes of the family.

I agree with if the baby was far enough long to take right then, but Texas legislature thinks that 14 weeks is far enough for it to have Marlise be an incubator.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Continuing this OT discussion . . . It's kind of ironic that the TX legislature has turned dead women into "decanting bottles" of Brave New World.

And back on topic. Any credible links about the transfer to the Oregon Health and Sciences University?

 

[lsyorke]

The Belgium senate voted to allow parents to euthanize their disabled children. This also applies to people with dementia. They are euthanizing depressed folks too. Absolutely no value placed on human life. It frightening AND disturbing. IMHO

Slippery slope, very dangerous...

Uh, not really what Belgium did, you might want to research that further.