$110,000 in Debt (college)

[Muushka]

Let me just say, as a college professor, that we do not force students to purchase new books because the one from last year is outdated!!! It is the publishers who come out with new textbooks each year! Then, they do not allow you to use an older version once the new one is out.

Believe me, I pay close attention to the price of textbooks that I require my students to purchase. I quit using one particular book because the author kept coming out with new versions each year (after not changing much). So I switched to a book that has pledged to only update every three years - which allows the used book market to go on for at least 3 years. I also choose a soft cover book instead of the hard cover book for cost reasons (even though they are usually slightly different). For some courses, I don't require a book at all because either 1) all books are too expensive IMHO for non-majors taking a course for one quarter or 2) good information can be found freely elsewhere.


In addition, I get no "kickbacks" for choosing any particular book. I have never heard of such a thing.

Maggie

That is unbelievable! How are they getting away with that?

As a student (went back full time for 2 semesters in 2000) I was one of those students that paid hundreds of dollars for a few books that were not worth keeping and not able buy used or sell due to exactly what you said. Honestly, I thought it was the profs doing it. I thank you for the way you care about your students' finances. Wish I had had you!

PS I really did hear about kickback, but perhaps it is just an urban legend. Forget I said it!

 

[tasha99]

How do they not allow use of the old textbooks? I have had teachers assign older textbooks. One put both in the syllabus and said get whichever one we wanted. The book store carried the new book, as it was the current one sold by the publisher, but most people bought the previous version for less than $20 online.

 

[MrsPete]

How do they not allow use of the old textbooks? I have had teachers assign older textbooks. One put both in the syllabus and said get whichever one we wanted. The book store carried the new book, as it was the current one sold by the publisher, but most people bought the previous version for less than $20 online.

Simple: The publisher just stops making the old version. The professor might get away with allowing the old and new versions for a year or so, but then the old ones'll become unavailable.

One of the positives about my daughter's current #1 college choice is that undergraduates pay a fee along with tuition that covers rental of all textbooks. The fee is only $105/semester.

I've asked students who've come back to visit me at the high school how well this program works, and they LOVE IT. They say that occasionally a professor will require an extra book, but it's rare.

Funny story: One of my husband's cousins sent both her kids to this school, and the oldest is now in graduate school (note I said that the textbook rental program is for UNDERGRADS). It's her first semester, and the professor talked about books . . . she was flabberghasted. They cost THIS MUCH? Suddenly she appreciated what she'd had for four years.

 

[maggiew]

How do they not allow use of the old textbooks? I have had teachers assign older textbooks. One put both in the syllabus and said get whichever one we wanted. The book store carried the new book, as it was the current one sold by the publisher, but most people bought the previous version for less than $20 online.

Well, the bookstores are not able to order the older version if there is a newer one out. So all the books in the bookstore will be the newer version. I could list the older version on my syllabus, but then I would have problems with students being able to find the older version because it is not in the bookstore and would be in limited quantity at places like half.com, etc. So it is theoretically possible, but is very difficult.

I allow students to use an older version of the textbook if they come and talk to me and suggest they have money issues. The problem with that is the material may not be the same. For example, my syllabus might say "Read Chapter 1" where in the old version that material might be in Chapter 2. Its doable usually, but is more difficult on the student because they have to try and match things up. Sometimes the homework questions at the end of the chapter might change and cause issues for the student too. If I assign questions 1, 3, 5 and 7, they might be different in the older version. I usually help the student figure it out, but it is more work for me and the student. Sometimes new chapters are introduced and I usually try to copy the chapter and give it to the student to help them out.

So, it is possible to use an older version, but it really complicates things for everyone.

I've also loaned out personal copies of books or tracked one down from colleagues to give to students really in need.

Maggie

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

How do they not allow use of the old textbooks? I have had teachers assign older textbooks. One put both in the syllabus and said get whichever one we wanted. The book store carried the new book, as it was the current one sold by the publisher, but most people bought the previous version for less than $20 online.

They just stop printing them and since the used book market is not 100% guaranteed since some folks keep their books, the teacher has no choice but to find an alternative, be it the new edition or alternative text.

 

[delmar411]

They just stop printing them and since the used book market is not 100% guaranteed since some folks keep their books, the teacher has no choice but to find an alternative, be it the new edition or alternative text.

The teacher may use the new edition but most people easily find used copies. Most campuses offer used books within the bookstore as well as offer online classifieds to match up buyers and sellers. Plus there are a million resale places online and then of course book rental places too.

I get my books about 70-80% off retail that way each semester. Some books have been nearly impossible to find but with some persistence I've been able to get them all.

 

[Colestat]

One of the positives about my daughter's current #1 college choice is that undergraduates pay a fee along with tuition that covers rental of all textbooks. The fee is only $105/semester.

Wow, I have never heard of this. Can you share which school offers this program?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

The teacher may use the new edition but most people easily find used copies. Most campuses offer used books within the bookstore as well as offer online classifieds to match up buyers and sellers. Plus there are a million resale places online and then of course book rental places too.

I get my books about 70-80% off retail that way each semester. Some books have been nearly impossible to find but with some persistence I've been able to get them all.

They didn't have on-line anything when I was in college.

But for single year editions, it would be tough for any professor to ensure that their students will have the book they need, no?

I homeschool and run into this problem a little bit sometimes. I have books that are out of print, recommended by my curriculum *if* I can find them, but they are very very very hard to find. Thankfully, it is just an extra and the curriculum is fine without it.

 

[delmar411]

They didn't have on-line anything when I was in college.

But for single year editions, it would be tough for any professor to ensure that their students will have the book they need, no?

I homeschool and run into this problem a little bit sometimes. I have books that are out of print, recommended by my curriculum *if* I can find them, but they are very very very hard to find. Thankfully, it is just an extra and the curriculum is fine without it.

I'm not sure what you mean by single year editions?

Every semester the same professors teach the same classes to a new group of students. The old students all had books. Those students either sell back their book to the bookstore so you can get it there. They sell it online so you can get it there or they sell it through the campus classifieds so you can get it there. Only a very small percentage will just keep or trash or donate their book and take it out of circulation. And a larger percentage of new students will just buy new anyway because they don't want to be hassled. So the textbook people are still making a fortune and everyone has a book. Plus a growing percentage of students are renting their books through places like Chegg.com. If there is some significant change in a new edition, the professors will let you know if an older version really won't do. They will make it work though if that's what you have. Most professors are really cost conscious when it comes to textbooks. That's been nice to see.

Our campus bookstore is now offering book rentals because their business was hurting so much from all the other places to get books. And don't forget that you can get some textbooks on the Nook and on the Kindle. My econ book is on DH's kindle this semester. And in my statistical econ class, the professor provides a pdf of the chapters he wants to cover. (not sure if that's from a book or something he wrote himself but it's 30+pages each chapter)

When I originally went to college there was NOTHING like these avenues for getting books. You went to the campus bookstore and paid their prices and that was that. I'm thrilled to have the ability to get them for so much cheaper these days.

 

[RangerPooh]

There are also the courses where the textbook is nothing but loose papers that you have to place into a binder. I've been stuck paying $70+ for a "loose" textbook (Chemistry and Econ) that you can not sell back and have no purpose later. And since they are loose you don't find people selling them in classifieds. These a rip offs, but I've seen more and more instructors requiring these.

Then there's the professors who have you purchase the book that they wrote to increase their sales. DH has had a few courses where this was the case (at the undergrad and grad levels). The book wasn't even read in the end, but you bought it and therefore they made money.

 

[delmar411]

There are also the courses where the textbook is nothing but loose papers that you have to place into a binder. I've been stuck paying $70+ for a "loose" textbook (Chemistry and Econ) that you can not sell back and have no purpose later. And since they are loose you don't find people selling them in classifieds. These a rip offs, but I've seen more and more instructors requiring these.

.

my math book is looseleaf as well as my organizational behavior book. I bought the math one for $20 off some guy and DH already had the OB one from a previous semester so didn't have to rebuy it.

I HATE them! The math one is just in a pile on my desk and I worry about the OB one getting ripped up all the time. The OB one was not that much of a savings over hardbound either when DH bought it.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm not sure what you mean by single year editions?

Every semester the same professors teach the same classes to a new group of students. The old students all had books. Those students either sell back their book to the bookstore so you can get it there. They sell it online so you can get it there or they sell it through the campus classifieds so you can get it there. Only a very small percentage will just keep or trash or donate their book and take it out of circulation. And a larger percentage of new students will just buy new anyway because they don't want to be hassled. So the textbook people are still making a fortune and everyone has a book. Plus a growing percentage of students are renting their books through places like Chegg.com. If there is some significant change in a new edition, the professors will let you know if an older version really won't do. They will make it work though if that's what you have. Most professors are really cost conscious when it comes to textbooks. That's been nice to see.

Our campus bookstore is now offering book rentals because their business was hurting so much from all the other places to get books. And don't forget that you can get some textbooks on the Nook and on the Kindle. My econ book is on DH's kindle this semester. And in my statistical econ class, the professor provides a pdf of the chapters he wants to cover. (not sure if that's from a book or something he wrote himself but it's 30+pages each chapter)

When I originally went to college there was NOTHING like these avenues for getting books. You went to the campus bookstore and paid their prices and that was that. I'm thrilled to have the ability to get them for so much cheaper these days.

Post 276 by Maggie. She stated that some publishers update the books annually.

Someone asked how come people cannot buy the old book. It was answered that publishers can and do cease printing when they don't want you to buy the old book.

I'm amazed at everything that is available today to buy books.

But several of my courses way back yonder in the olden days--printed lectures that you had to buy from the copier. Those were very very difficult to find used. And they added up.

I had one professor that published a book and we did have to buy his book. And we did read it. (it was actually pretty good for the topic it covered) For some reason, that was not available resale, and I don't remember why. My guess is that it was newly published, but my memory fails me.

 

[maggiew]

There are also the courses where the textbook is nothing but loose papers that you have to place into a binder. I've been stuck paying $70+ for a "loose" textbook (Chemistry and Econ) that you can not sell back and have no purpose later. And since they are loose you don't find people selling them in classifieds. These a rip offs, but I've seen more and more instructors requiring these.

Then there's the professors who have you purchase the book that they wrote to increase their sales. DH has had a few courses where this was the case (at the undergrad and grad levels). The book wasn't even read in the end, but you bought it and therefore they made money.

I can't say about your looseleaf book specifically, but here is what I have experienced. One year I ordered a custom text from a publisher. What they did was only include in the book the chapters of the textbook that I was going to use. It was cheaper for the students to purchase because it had less chapters. However, what I discovered is that the students cannot sell the book back to the bookstore at the end of the quarter (unless I was teaching the same course the next quarter and was using the same exact version). My book was bound and not looseleaf. I personally have never seen a looseleaf book. In the end it didn't save the students much because they paid the same for the book that they would have if they had purchased a regular (non custom) book and then sold it back to the bookstore. I never did a custom book after that one time. I was trying to save students money, but I found it didn't quite work like I thought it would.

The only other thing I can say about your looseleaf book is that it was probably cheaper than if you had to purchase a regular, hard-covered textbook. It sounds to me that $70 for a chemistry text is pretty cheap (sadly ). I've seen Organic Chemistry or General Biology texts that were on the order of $200. But you usually use those for 3 quarters or 2 semesters.



Maggie

 

[dkostel]

I had a prof who made us buy the book he wrote & with your final project (from the book) you had to rip off the front cover & submit it with your project. No chance at reselling

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

I had a prof who made us buy the book he wrote & with your final project (from the book) you had to rip off the front cover & submit it with your project. No chance at reselling

WHAAAAT?! I hope that you wrote him a scathing student review at the end of the semester for that garbage!!

 

[amylynne01]

Just one other thought about textbooks. I teach math at a community college. The math chair chooses the texts for all math classes, so all algebra 1 courses have the same book, all stats courses have the same book, etc. So I HAVE to use a certain text regardless of price. As a professor, I have no say in my book.

 

[nunzia]

Let me just say, as a college professor, that we do not force students to purchase new books because the one from last year is outdated!!! It is the publishers who come out with new textbooks each year! Then, they do not allow you to use an older version once the new one is out.

Believe me, I pay close attention to the price of textbooks that I require my students to purchase. I quit using one particular book because the author kept coming out with new versions each year (after not changing much). So I switched to a book that has pledged to only update every three years - which allows the used book market to go on for at least 3 years. I also choose a soft cover book instead of the hard cover book for cost reasons (even though they are usually slightly different). For some courses, I don't require a book at all because either 1) all books are too expensive IMHO for non-majors taking a course for one quarter or 2) good information can be found freely elsewhere.


In addition, I get no "kickbacks" for choosing any particular book. I have never heard of such a thing.

Maggie

YEA YOU!!! I appalud you for thinking about your students' finances. Thank you

 

[delmar411]

I had a prof who made us buy the book he wrote & with your final project (from the book) you had to rip off the front cover & submit it with your project. No chance at reselling

There is no way that would fly these days. Could you imagine trying to explain that one to a book rental place?

 

[delmar411]

Post 276 by Maggie. She stated that some publishers update the books annually.

Ah, I see. I didn't connect the dots. Sorry my brain is tired. Our school has taken a strong stance against publishers that try to put out a new ed every year. They simply don't use the new material in the books...if there is any new material or they photocopy it or make it into a PDF.

I think I'm pretty lucky with this school. Sounds like I could have been much worse off at another university.

 

[Spacepest]

I had a prof who made us buy the book he wrote & with your final project (from the book) you had to rip off the front cover & submit it with your project. No chance at reselling

I would have been the student who submitted a photocopy of the front cover of the book. Then I would have donated my copy to a local library so that some future student could borrow it for free.

But then again, the classmates I had were a stubborn bunch. I belonged to a small study group of students that would buy one copy of a required book, and then we would hold our own study sessions outside of class to share that one copy. It used to drive our instructors insane as the student bookstore would be filled with unsold copies of their books. Plus we usually ended scoring high in their classes as well--an added bonus of having a dedicated study group!