$110,000 in Debt (college)

[mafibisha]

Even when the parents can pay for college, I see poor choices with respect to "return on investment" and the chosen majors of student. I own a service business in an area where incomes are very high. In one town where I do a lot of work the median income is 350K. I hear a lot about the college kids and what they are studying. Most of them go to very pricey small liberal arts schools in the Northeast. Like Ursinus, Swarthmore, Haverford, Moravian. They all run in the 50K or slightly more per year.

One of the girls is a Spanish major with a Psych minor. And so these people paid well over 250K when you factor in the obligatory semester abroad and all of the "extras". I was telling my husband about this particular story and he said...."they would have been better off simply investing the 250K for her....she'd end up with much more in retirement investments vs. what she'll be able to earn/save/invest with that major". He's right.

I know, we're a bit harsh on the topic, but seriously.....250K....for a degree in Spanish?

In a different (normal?) economy, I wouldn't totally agree but ITA with you now. It's a new economy and the job market is entirely different. What might have been true even 3 years ago has totally changed.

Its a fallacy to equate getting a college degree (from anywhere at any cost) as a guarantee (ROE) of getting a good job. Or ANY job.This is a concept currently, continually discussed on many levels nationally.

Additionally, the premise / hope of a SAHM getting back into the work force has become more difficult than ever, if not nearly impossible, again due to the new economy.

A SAHM may be highly educated, with work experience prior to staying home, with highly regarded volunteer responsibilites & skills. Doesn't matter much anymore because lined up in front of her are countless women with CURRENT experience, who are either recently layed off or just looking for a new job. Those with current / or recent experience will usually get the job.

 

[klacey1]

In a different (normal?) economy, I wouldn't totally agree but ITA with you now. It's a new economy and the job market is entirely different. What might have been true even 3 years ago has totally changed.

Its a fallacy to equate getting a college degree (from anywhere at any cost) as a guarantee (ROE) of getting a good job. Or ANY job.This is a concept currently, continually discussed on many levels nationally.

Additionally, the premise / hope of a SAHM getting back into the work force has become more difficult than ever, if not nearly impossible, again due to the new economy.

A SAHM may be highly educated, with work experience prior to staying home, with highly regarded volunteer responsibilites & skills. Doesn't matter much anymore because lined up in front of her are countless women with CURRENT experience, who are either recently layed off or just looking for a new job. Those with current / or recent experience will usually get the job.

Couldn't agree more...

 

[mafibisha]

I read the article and it made me sad. Obviously she made the wrong decision (we have all been there). But, she is being responsible for her debt, which is more than can be said for some.

I have fallen into this money pit myself. I was married, had a young son, in my early 20's and working as a bank teller making $8 hr. I knew I needed to do something to secure our future (what would happen to my son and I if something happened to my DH?). So I went back to school. I had taken a couple of semesters at the local university, that my father paid for, but I decided school wasn't for me. Fast forward to a couple of years later and here I am thinking-I really need to go to school.

I needed to work full time for the pay and the benefits. So I went to a local, small, private college-this was the only college offering the adult alternative programs so you could go to school at night. I went to school every week (never missed a week) class was always on Monday evening from 6-10pm with a mandatory study group for another night during the week. Sometimes I had to take 2 classes a week for 6-8 week stints. This went on for 5 years-I earned a BBA and a MBA. When I was finishing my MBA I found out I was pregnant (we had tried for 7 years to have another baby so this was great news). I find a new job were I was supposed to be doing marketing work, and 2 months into the job found out they only wanted me for a secretary. The employer was really horrible and it was a manufacturing environment were there was black dust coating everything-I mean in the office the bottoms of your pants would be black b/c it was everywhere. So, for my sanity and my unborn babies health I left that role. So, here I am with student loan debt of $63K , unemployed and pregnant. I had to work part-time temp jobs the rest of that year b/c that was all I could get. After the baby was born it took me another 4 months to find a full time job.

I get that full time job (once again, a job I don't need any degree for), I work there for 2 years, the whole time searching for another job. I have another baby (we later find out he has autism-which adds another layer of stress, worry and $$), I get laid off from this job. Thankfully, I interview and was offered 2 awesome jobs making almost $20K more than what I was making-I took a position with the larget consumer goods company in the world and have been there for 2 years. For my current role I needed the BBA, but not the MBA. So, after all this time I still don't need, and probably never will, one of the degrees I spent $25K for.

"The pathway to hell is paved with good intentions." So now we are a family of 5, we make decent money, but have debt incurred from over 5 years ago when I basically couldn't work for a year, compounded with working somewhere that I could only get a low wage, along with raising gas prices, medical bills-on and on. I know I have let my family down, b/c my student loan debt is almost insurmountable. The big paying job I was hoping for didn't/will not ever pan out. In order for my student loan debt to be anywhere near something we can afford to pay monthly-I will be paying on these loans for the next 30 years. I will never be able to help my children with their college tuition. So many things that I set out to have for my children will never come to fruition b/c I went to college.
I didn't write this for a pity party-I borrowed the money and I need to pay it back, along with the consequences of paying it back. I just wanted to point out this really could happen to anyone. Unfortunately, things don't always work out for us the way we envision and I can empathize with the writer of the article.

I need to win the lottery..

We were typing at the same time but thats what I was trying to say:
Its a fallacy to equate getting a college degree (from anywhere at any cost) as a guarantee (ROE) of getting a good job. Or ANY job.

to you. On the very wonderful plus side, your family trumps any job or college or salary anyway!

 

[Rekenna]

On the very wonderful plus side, your family trumps any job or college or salary anyway!

They are cute, plus I need them to go to WDW with me!

 

[MrsPete]

Yeah, some people manage to have English Lit careers with B.A.s, but the career prospects for English Lit majors aren't great. It isn't a great plan to spend $40k a year on school for an English Lit degree

(I was once offered a job as a book editor, 20 years ago. I made more working at the mall selling clothes).

I'm not opposed to spending $40K a year for a given degree -- IF you have it to spend and don't have to borrow, but most people don't have that much money sitting in a savings account for college. What really hurts is borrowing and being unable to get a job with the degree.

I think book editor is a "dream job" for many people who love to read . . . but those jobs are few and far between, and they require living in a couple specific places.

This goes both ways. I was responding to a poster who was complaining about the burdens of having chosen not to stay at home. If you are choosing to work so that your child doesn't have to take out loans for their education, then recognize that it is a choice. You have made trade-offs. If they don't reflect your priorities, then make different choices.

I meant that no matter what you choose, you should consider the consequences -- and all choices have consequences. Too many people want to whine about things that they should've seen coming.

Yep. I know a few English Lit majors....none of them work in that field . . . I know, we're a bit harsh on the topic, but seriously.....250K....for a degree in Spanish?

I have an English lit degree, every one of my co-workers has an English lit degree. Of course, teaching is one of the big uses for an English degree. I also worked a couple years as a tech writer.

But I didn't pay 250K for my degree, and I didn't borrow to get it. I agree with you that paying that price for a degree in Spanish is an investment not likely to pay off.

I think two things are at work here: 1) Americans have never really acknowledged a college degree as an INVESTMENT. 2) Too many people assume that great jobs will appear.

I never understood why people look down on certain majors. All of the fellow English majors I keep in touch with from college are gainfully employed-- not to mention the most intelligent people I know. I can't think of a single career where four years of learning to think, interpret, and write well would be a HINDRANCE.

You're right that these abilities are a strength, but at the same time they're not something for which all companies are willing to pay. Similarly, they're not skills that command a high salary. I'll never make as much as my engineer husband.

I know I have let my family down, b/c my student loan debt is almost insurmountable. The big paying job I was hoping for didn't/will not ever pan out. In order for my student loan debt to be anywhere near something we can afford to pay monthly-I will be paying on these loans for the next 30 years. I will never be able to help my children with their college tuition. So many things that I set out to have for my children will never come to fruition b/c I went to college.

Stories like this are why I'm so against borrowing for college.

 

[Rekenna]

Stories like this are why I'm so against borrowing for college.

Yes, it's a bummer-but I do have a good job with a good company now, it just took me a long time to get it. The catch is I needed to borrow the money for the degree for the job I have-unfortunately, it just works that way.

Again, I need to win the lottery!

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

Wow, I should have known better than to comment on a thread that's on a topic on which I am passionate. It is the Dis, after all-- the claws come out. I suppose I should have said can "only be applied to one FIELD," not CAREER. That was my mistake. Can you find it in your infinite wisdom to forgive me?
An English degree can be applied to many, many more fields than engineering.

Wow, I had no idea that engineering was so limiting. I'd better clue all of my engineer friends in on it too. You're correct that you can probably apply an English degree or any other generic liberal arts degree to many more fields, but I'll refrain from commenting further on that

 

[tasha99]

People with high student loans should choose the income-based repayment plan. This is for Stafford Loans (not private loans--avoid those at all costs!)

Basically, payment is set at a percentage of your income. For most jobs, anything not paid off in 25 years is forgiven. For public sector jobs and non profits (including Americorps and the Peace Corps), anything not paid is forgiven after 10 years.

I had to take out sizeable loans for grad school, so this loan repayment program is one of many factors that has made me decide to pursue a career as a speech language pathologist in public schools rather than in a hospital. I have almost $100,000 in student loans, but between that and other special ed/rural school forgiveness programs, I am estimating I'll only have to pay about a third of it back.

I read the article posted a while ago, but if I remember correctly, the writer took private loans. That's something I think almost everyone should avoid.

 

[bdcp]

People with high student loans should choose the income-based repayment plan. This is for Stafford Loans (not private loans--avoid those at all costs!)

Basically, payment is set at a percentage of your income. For most jobs, anything not paid off in 25 years is forgiven. For public sector jobs and non profits (including Americorps and the Peace Corps), anything not paid is forgiven after 10 years.

I had to take out sizeable loans for grad school, so this loan repayment program is one of many factors that has made me decide to pursue a career as a speech language pathologist in public schools rather than in a hospital. I have almost $100,000 in student loans, but between that and other special ed/rural school forgiveness programs, I am estimating I'll only have to pay about a third of it back.

I read the article posted a while ago, but if I remember correctly, the writer took private loans. That's something I think almost everyone should avoid.

And who pays back the rest of it? Us taxpayers who had no choice or say?

It's just one more entitlement program. DH and I both worked and lived at home to pay our way through school. We made the decision we would pay for our boys' schooling which we did. So, on top of that we're paying for others to go to school.

 

[tinker&belle]

People with high student loans should choose the income-based repayment plan. This is for Stafford Loans (not private loans--avoid those at all costs!)

Basically, payment is set at a percentage of your income. For most jobs, anything not paid off in 25 years is forgiven. For public sector jobs and non profits (including Americorps and the Peace Corps), anything not paid is forgiven after 10 years.

I had to take out sizeable loans for grad school, so this loan repayment program is one of many factors that has made me decide to pursue a career as a speech language pathologist in public schools rather than in a hospital. I have almost $100,000 in student loans, but between that and other special ed/rural school forgiveness programs, I am estimating I'll only have to pay about a third of it back.

I read the article posted a while ago, but if I remember correctly, the writer took private loans. That's something I think almost everyone should avoid.

Is this new? I have never heard of this. I thought the loans followed you forever and were not even dischargable in bankruptcy?

 

[mafibisha]

In a different (normal?) economy, I wouldn't totally agree but ITA with you now. It's a new economy and the job market is entirely different. What might have been true even 3 years ago has totally changed.

Its a fallacy to equate getting a college degree (from anywhere at any cost) as a guarantee (ROE) of getting a good job. Or ANY job.This is a concept currently, continually discussed on many levels nationally.

Additionally, the premise / hope of a SAHM getting back into the work force has become more difficult than ever, if not nearly impossible, again due to the new economy.

A SAHM may be highly educated, with work experience prior to staying home, with highly regarded volunteer responsibilites & skills. Doesn't matter much anymore because lined up in front of her are countless women with CURRENT experience, who are either recently layed off or just looking for a new job. Those with current / or recent experience will usually get the job.

Couldn't agree more...

Thanks. Its difficult to believe but we've seen it happen again and again and again - including to me.
Educated and experienced, took time out as a SAHM -- recently got back into the work force in the knick of time!! So grateful considering unemployment lately.

 

[crisi]

I'm not opposed to spending $40K a year for a given degree -- IF you have it to spend and don't have to borrow, but most people don't have that much money sitting in a savings account for college. What really hurts is borrowing and being unable to get a job with the degree.

That's one of the reasons that my kids - in 5th and 6th grade - have six figure college funds that we are still investing in. I LIKE private school liberal arts degrees - for reasons that have little to do with employment and much to do with what sort of people they turn out. But it isn't easy to build up college funds to pay for kids to go to private school to major in English Lit.

I think that long term, the benefits of a private liberal arts degree can get you into a fulfilling - and possible lucrative - career. But it isn't something that is guaranteed, and its likely going to take a LONG time between graduation and a well paying job.

 

[mafibisha]

People with high student loans should choose the income-based repayment plan. This is for Stafford Loans (not private loans--avoid those at all costs!)

Basically, payment is set at a percentage of your income. For most jobs, anything not paid off in 25 years is forgiven. For public sector jobs and non profits (including Americorps and the Peace Corps), anything not paid is forgiven after 10 years.

I had to take out sizeable loans for grad school, so this loan repayment program is one of many factors that has made me decide to pursue a career as a speech language pathologist in public schools rather than in a hospital. I have almost $100,000 in student loans, but between that and other special ed/rural school forgiveness programs, I am estimating I'll only have to pay about a third of it back.

Can you give us some links or more info about that? I think that might have been true at one time, but doubt it is today. My bro and SIL recently tried to do that with their oldest's loans and it was a no go.
Serving in Americorps or public sector IS true, I think.

 

[tdirks]

wow

 

[klacey1]

That's one of the reasons that my kids - in 5th and 6th grade - have six figure college funds that we are still investing in. I LIKE private school liberal arts degrees - for reasons that have little to do with employment and much to do with what sort of people they turn out. But it isn't easy to build up college funds to pay for kids to go to private school to major in English Lit.

I think that long term, the benefits of a private liberal arts degree can get you into a fulfilling - and possible lucrative - career. But it isn't something that is guaranteed, and its likely going to take a LONG time between graduation and a well paying job.

I get what you're saying-- your kids are very lucky to have parents like you and your husband who saved up for them! I'm sure they'll be very grateful for that.
Unfortunately, though, as another poster pointed out-- at this point in history, NO major/degree is guaranteed to get a recent college grad a well paying job right after graduation.

 

[tasha99]

Can you give us some links or more info about that? I think that might have been true at one time, but doubt it is today. My bro and SIL recently tried to do that with their oldest's loans and it was a no go.
Serving in Americorps or public sector IS true, I think.

Here a the link for Income Based Repayment. It's a program that began in 2009 and is different from the Income Contingent Repayment Plan and Income Sensitive Repayment Plans.

http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/IBRPlan.jsp

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

Wow, I should have known better than to comment on a thread that's on a topic on which I am passionate. It is the Dis, after all-- the claws come out. I suppose I should have said can "only be applied to one FIELD," not CAREER. That was my mistake. Can you find it in your infinite wisdom to forgive me?
An English degree can be applied to many, many more fields than engineering.

Well, I'm not so sure on that one. You know even less about the vaue of an engineering degree than you think you do. Engineers are problem solvers--it's very applicable to many, many career paths.

I'll also tell you that engineers that I know, who have left the field, study their new profession at the graduate level--for example, going to law school. So, it's not like they start from ground zero. They've already proved that they have critical thinking skills.

You might want to consider expanding your circle of friends if you think the English Lit department had all the smart kids.

 

[Muushka]

And who pays back the rest of it? Us taxpayers who had no choice or say?

It's just one more entitlement program. DH and I both worked and lived at home to pay our way through school. We made the decision we would pay for our boys' schooling which we did. So, on top of that we're paying for others to go to school.

Thank you. Someone had to say it.

Like I said earlier, the student loans are going to be the next Fannie Freddie.

And who will pay it? All the people who tried to make wise choices.

 

[crisi]

I get what you're saying-- your kids are very lucky to have parents like you and your husband who saved up for them! I'm sure they'll be very grateful for that.
Unfortunately, though, as another poster pointed out-- at this point in history, NO major/degree is guaranteed to get a recent college grad a well paying job right after graduation.

Of course not - although some majors are going to have better/more opportunities than others. You are better off - from a job perspective - majoring in Accounting instead of History. Or Engineering instead of English Lit. There are just more jobs available after a four year degree in those fields, and they usually pay a little better.

To say "well, even Accounting majors have a hard time finding jobs - I think I'll major in Film Studies" is short sighted if your rationale for going to college is to enable employment in anything other than the general "job requires a B.A." sense.

 

[mdrob214]

Totally agree. It is never a good idea to comment on something one is not familiar with. Usually the comment is wrong.

You mean like when people make blanket statements about English majors and how they have few options for careers, especially making more than a salesperson at the mall?

It goes both ways. And even if your experience is one thing, don't expect that to apply to everyone within the same degree field.


Disclaimer: I have a degree, but it's not in English OR Engineering! And, although I borrowed a small amount of money to pay for out-of-state tuition (guess I was spoiled since my parents allowed that), it has been paid off for many, many years now.