$110,000 in Debt (college)

[bluesaturn]

Wow. That list makes me really wonder why the article girl didn't become "independent," defer American, work a low-wage job for a year, and then reapply for Financial Aid? It seems like that could have worked in her favor Either that, or why not go to a different (but still equally good) school on that list that would give a full ride to someone with a single mom who is a teacher?? It seems like she had tunnel-vision that caused her to miss some possible good opportunites and that landed her in a tough financial situation post-graduation.

Well, I think it's pretty hard to become "independent" prior to the age of 25 without a very good reason. Because if it were easy, everyone would be doing it to get tons of financial aid. Also, I don't know if she would have been "poor" enough for any of the schools to give her a full ride. A teacher's salary isn't huge, but it's also not horrible in most places. And I think she was from New Jersey, so her mom's salary might have been high compared to other parts of the country.

You're right though, she should have picked another school. One that she could afford.

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

Because they changed the rules re: "independent", and taking a year off won't do it. These days, to qualify to have your parents' income totally disregarded, you have either be a ward of the state, be married, have a child, be in the military or a veteran, or be at least 24 years old.

I've actually encountered kids who have entered into sham marriages with roommates in order to get independent status.

Yikes on that second part!

The first part makes sense, though. My BFF got a full ride to the state school once she had a child at age 20. She obviously didn't plan this, but it actually worked out so that her school was paid for (and her daughter is a huge blessing...it's all good). Even she says that she wouldn't advocate that anyone go that path just to get financial aid, though

 

[crisi]

Also:

100% true If you are so very poor that you need the government to help feed you and your grades allow you to go to college, just about any private school will fund you 100%. You may have to pay pennies at a public university, but not much more.

Your list has 51 colleges and universities on it. There are 2474 colleges and universities in the U.S. 2.1% of colleges offering to fund you 100% (which not all do, some of that 51 is the loan cap schools) is a long way from "just about any private school will fund you 100%." Also since 16 of those schools don't have an income cap, it would be almost as accurate to say that "just about any private school will fund you 100%" regardless of your financial status.

Part of the challenge is the misperception that there are lots of opportunities out there if you are poor - or even middle class - for grant based aid (many of those programs you listed are not for people qualifing for food stamps - they are for people below the U.S. MEDIAN income.) There are opportunities, there are far fewer of them - for both poor, middle class, and even wealthy kids (because scholarships are often not targeted to need) - than most people believe. So we set the expectations for kids that they can go to college anywhere - because if mom and dad can't afford it, someone will pick up the tab. And that isn't the case, but by then, their heart is set on Cornell (limits loans to $3000 per year for those poor families making less than $120k per year.)

 

[lovemygoofy]

It's pretty interesting reading this as I don't have children or anyone I know preparing for college.

I did want to mention that it is possible to go to college on a full ride and be poor. I certainly did. I came from small town Arkansas and a single mother with no support other than her disability check. I did good to scrape up the money to take the tests and apply for colleges. I saved for a year just for those events alone.

I applied to 10 schools and was accepted and received options of full rides to 6 of them. I did finally choose a private liberal arts, presbyterian college that was far enough away but still close that I could go home in an emergency. The costs was essentially a new car every year. I did still work almost 40 hours a week while taking courses and I took out a small loan on the side because I wanted to do summer school as well to double major.

Now granted I graduated 10 years ago and maybe things have changed. I just wanted to give the perspective that I did work my behind off and I wanted to go to college more than anything and I made it happen.

 

[FINFAN]

"The main point. The point was that amost everyone changes his or her mind about significant things -- it might be children, might be career, might be something else. The idea that Mr. Right might want children and she might decide that she does too is AN EXAMPLE of the type of changes that young people make in their decision-making process.

Personally, I want my daughters to be free to make these decisions. Being tied down by debt removes some of that freedom."

My DD chose her field so that she can have a fulfilling career not just a paycheck, future life choices and life experiences too. The debt my DD will have from school is not what is defining her choices, her decision to not enter into debt down the road have defined where she was able to choose to go to college and earn the education she is successful in today. There is more than one way to be deemed successful and have options in todays world.
ETA: Just like your daughters will choose their college based on affordability, mine will make any future choices based on affordability. Will her college debt prevent her from the option of ever bing a home owner or parent, nope, just alters the timing some. At the percentage of the rising college costs vs real estate, I think she will be ok getting college out of the way first and tackling that debt ahead of a home is she ever does want to own one.

 

[philm]

My son is a freshman this year at our state flagship. We've been able to pay the bills for him so far. Fafsa was a joke, but his 24 credits of a combination of AP and test score credit means that after he finishes his first two semesters this spring, he'll be about half way towards his degree. Even state schools aren't cheap with our tab for the College of Engineering (they charge a tuition stipend) coming in at 31K per year in total instate costs of tuition, fees, room and board, books etc. I'll try to find a way, second job (already have it), renting my DVC points, trying to get to the 50 post minimum to do that, but I don't want to stick him in debt, if I can avoid it.

It's really a shame. This kid busted his rear in high school, and did well, thank God, but college is just so prohibitably expensive, it boarders on the ridiculous. My son earned a spot in engineering at our very selective state flagship, and I wanted to make it happen for him. I've got two more children waiting in the wings also. I could have let him go to a 2 year community, and/or a school that would allow him to commute, but a degree from this institution is valuable. So, we'll see what happens, and pray a lot.

 

[FINFAN]

My son is a freshman this year at our state flagship. We've been able to pay the bills for him so far. Fafsa was a joke, but his 24 credits of a combination of AP and test score credit means that after he finishes his first two semesters this spring, he'll be about half way towards his degree. Even state schools aren't cheap with our tab for the College of Engineering (they charge a tuition stipend) coming in at 31K per year in total instate costs of tuition, fees, room and board, books etc. I'll try to find a way, second job (already have it), renting my DVC points, trying to get to the 50 post minimum to do that, but I don't want to stick him in debt, if I can avoid it.

It's really a shame. This kid busted his rear in high school, and did well, thank God, but college is just so prohibitably expensive, it boarders on the ridiculous. My son earned a spot in engineering at our very selective state flagship, and I wanted to make it happen for him. I've got two more children waiting in the wings also. I could have let him go to a 2 year community, and/or a school that would allow him to commute, but a degree from this institution is valuable. So, we'll see what happens, and pray a lot.

ITA with the costs and knowing the value in certain schools. Our DD is paying about 10,000 more per year than at our state university. When she contacted employers for her field...every single one stated that the level program at our state schools were not quite up to par with their recruiting . Sure she could obtain a degree from said school...but she would not be marketable to them based on todays program that they offer. Her current school is one they recruit from regularly, It is not the only school, no way, but the reputation is high enough and past students coming out of there are track record enough for these companies to start their searches there. When DD found out she was one of 75 students accepted in, her teachers at high school said she would be carzy to pass on the opportunity. DD made her decision based on the fact that she would alsways wonder if she did the right thing by passing on attending that school and settling. She also felt that is she went to a regualr state school she would eventually sell whatever home she had if she had to, to be able to go to the one she is at now., but she has never said that about being a parent or homeowner.
So, she is going into debt now, for less than what most of my neighbors are spending redoing their kitchens...to each his own.

 

[NikkiV]

I did finally choose a private liberal arts, presbyterian college that was far enough away but still close that I could go home in an emergency.

You didn't by chance go to the University of the Ozarks did you? My daughter has an opportunity to go there and is struggling with the decision b/c of the small size. If you did, any input would be incredible!
Thanks!

 

[Judique]

well, she is aware that life is what happens while you are making plans,and that many old-fashioned people can't grasp that she is not merely biding her time in school waiting for Mr. Right. The guy she has been with for the last 4 1/2 years shares the no kids/ low cost choices/is studying in the same field/ dirt cheap wedding( if there is a wedding) view, and yes, he and his family know up front what her debt will be . However, I'll let her know that in 3 months when she turns 21 a magic button will go off and change everything that she has always been honest with herself over . Really? Even if she does change her mind, she knows the debt is to be paid off prior to anything. According to her payment plan, it will be paid by age 32.I know people who did not have college debt at 50 who still do not own a home (by choice) or have kids..and *gasp* are divorced from Mr. Right..some more than once. Her career will be as as established as someone without a loan, or least she will have the same opportunity as the rest of her fellow graduates that apply themselves...just like anyone She is a bit more independant than being swayed by a Mr. Right. If there is a Mr. Right he will be so because he understands her lifestyle/choices...not because he is going to change them.
WHY is it ok with everyone to go into debt for a house/cars/kids...all the things that are considered OK but NOT for an education? The author of the article took out loans not realizing how they would affect her life/limit her choices...not the same thing. So I guess, she should not have attended school, to be a productive person in society...and just hung out in bars looking for Mr. Right because the ripe old age of 21 was approaching? Wow...

You missed the point. The point is that priorities can change and very often do. And at just before age 21 and having dated the same guy for 4 and 1/2 years - that would be from age 16ish?...this young person has been 'possibly' less exposed then the average college student. As I said before, good luck to her! This is just my old fashioned opinion. You should take it with a grain of salt .....

Mrs. Pete,
Thank you for your comments! Very realistic and great grasp of concept.

 

[lovemygoofy]

You didn't by chance go to the University of the Ozarks did you? My daughter has an opportunity to go there and is struggling with the decision b/c of the small size. If you did, any input would be incredible!
Thanks!

I sure did go there! I loved it. Feel free to PM with questions or concerns.

 

[disykat]

And don't assume that two-income families are spending every penny they make. .

I didn't say two-income families. I said couples who live off two incomes. No assumptions here!

 

[FINFAN]

You missed the point. The point is that priorities can change and very often do. And at just before age 21 and having dated the same guy for 4 and 1/2 years - that would be from age 16ish?...this young person has been 'possibly' less exposed and allowed to experience life. She may actually get up the nerve to say 'NO' to what others tell her 'she' wants. Your posts seem to speak for this child quite a bit, which makes me wonder if you always speak 'for' her and tell her exactly what she wants and needs. As I said before, good luck to her! This is just my old fashioned opinion. You should take it with a grain of salt .....

I don't speak for her, I speak OF her and she is not a child. I am sharing the views and decisons she has expressed to her family that happen to apply to this type of thread. However, based on posts from those on this thread speaking for and deciding for a student is exactly what is being said to do... as far as her social life, I have no idea nor does she what will happen in the future (no one does) her current boyfriend is not her first, but he is at this point in her life exactly that, a boyfriend. You make choices, plans and go day to day. What do you mean by she may actually get up the nerve to say no to others? She is quite capable of saying no. On the contrary, she makes decisions all the time for herself and she advocates and researches and makes mistakes too. Less exposed? Hardly..has been working since 16, attended a high school of over 3000 competitive students, she attends school 4 states away which results in us seeing her for Christmas and partial summer . Matter of fact, she was told byt the school that one of the positives of her acceptance at her college was that she has real life experiences , the admissions review looks for that in their students because it is so helpful in educational success.
She has traveled on her own, with her BF's family, and with friends. She is very independant and handles all school matters on her own...most of her old high school friends still call mom and dad to assist in their college papers, registration, they can't even make a doctors appointment on their own, it blows my mind. Oh and most of these example kids are not paying one cent toward their own education. My DD works her butt off and expects the school to so the same for her because she does know what she is investing into it.
Again, I have not missed the point that priorities can change. The author entered into a loan not thinking about what it may mean in the future and now she is literally and figuratively paying the price. At least she is taking the right path to handle it and even dare I say try to help others out by publishing her mistakes? If things change for my DD's path, then they change..it's like saying little Susie went to school to be an accountant. She used up all of mom and dads $. Now Susie wants to have kids and stay at home...maybe work at a preschool part time...so basically she made all the wrong choices for college then. I mean , she just wasted a ton of money right? That $ could have been used for her mortgage, a car, more kids, her kids college....her prioroties changed. Oh wait, she is going to be an accountant anyway, because she feels she has to to justify spending all that $, but now she is torn because she wants to be at home..there are always going to be things that change in life and people will adjust as it occurs.
Your post could not be more off target about me speaking for my DD, I'm pretty sure you post is doing that, you know, predicting her future and all. She is simply choosing to invest in her education over a type of future home or family size. I know that is hard for some to grasp, but not everyone marches to the beat of the same drummer.

 

[Judique]

I don't speak for her, I speak OF her and she is not a child. I am sharing the views and decisons she has expressed to her family that happen to apply to this type of thread. However, based on posts from those on this thread speaking for and deciding for a student is exactly what is being said to do... as far as her social life, I have no idea nor does she what will happen in the future (no one does) her current boyfriend is not her first, but he is at this point in her life exactly that, a boyfriend. You make choices, plans and go day to day. What do you mean by she may actually get up the nerve to say no to others? She is quite capable of saying no. On the contrary, she makes decisions all the time for herself and she advocates and researches and makes mistakes too. Less exposed? Hardly..has been working since 16, attended a high school of over 3000 competitive students, she attends school 4 states away which results in us seeing her for Christmas and partial summer . Matter of fact, she was told byt the school that one of the positives of her acceptance at her college was that she has real life experiences , the admissions review looks for that in their students because it is so helpful in educational success.
She has traveled on her own, with her BF's family, and with friends. She is very independant and handles all school matters on her own...most of her old high school friends still call mom and dad to assist in their college papers, registration, they can't even make a doctors appointment on their own, it blows my mind. Oh and most of these example kids are not paying one cent toward their own education. My DD works her butt off and expects the school to so the same for her because she does know what she is investing into it.
Again, I have not missed the point that priorities can change. The author entered into a loan not thinking about what it may mean in the future and now she is literally and figuratively paying the price. At least she is taking the right path to handle it and even dare I say try to help others out by publishing her mistakes? If things change for my DD's path, then they change..it's like saying little Susie went to school to be an accountant. She used up all of mom and dads $. Now Susie wants to have kids and stay at home...maybe work at a preschool part time...so basically she made all the wrong choices for college then. I mean , she just wasted a ton of money right? That $ could have been used for her mortgage, a car, more kids, her kids college....her prioroties changed. Oh wait, she is going to be an accountant anyway, because she feels she has to to justify spending all that $, but now she is torn because she wants to be at home..there are always going to be things that change in life and people will adjust as it occurs.
Your post could not be more off target about me speaking for my DD, I'm pretty sure you post is doing that, you know, predicting her future and all. She is simply choosing to invest in her education over a type of future home or family size. I know that is hard for some to grasp, but not everyone marches to the beat of the same drummer.

I edited my post after thinking about it for a bit. Rereading it made me think that it would be inflammatory. That was certainly not the original intention of my first post.

Unfortunately, you read it before I finished my edit.

So, I'll end any comments by me about you and your child right here. Again - best wishes to her in her future life and chosen field.

 

[FINFAN]

I edited my post after thinking about it for a bit. Rereading it made me think that it would be inflammatory. That was certainly not the original intention of my first post.

Unfortunately, you read it before I finished my edit.

So, I'll end any comments by me about you and your child right here. Again - best wishes to her in her future life and chosen field.

thank you, she and every student these days can appreciate good wishes.

 

[Abbeys_mom]

Also:



Your list has 51 colleges and universities on it. There are 2474 colleges and universities in the U.S. 2.1% of colleges offering to fund you 100% (which not all do, some of that 51 is the loan cap schools) is a long way from "just about any private school will fund you 100%." Also since 16 of those schools don't have an income cap, it would be almost as accurate to say that "just about any private school will fund you 100%" regardless of your financial status.

Part of the challenge is the misperception that there are lots of opportunities out there if you are poor - or even middle class - for grant based aid (many of those programs you listed are not for people qualifing for food stamps - they are for people below the U.S. MEDIAN income.) There are opportunities, there are far fewer of them - for both poor, middle class, and even wealthy kids (because scholarships are often not targeted to need) - than most people believe. So we set the expectations for kids that they can go to college anywhere - because if mom and dad can't afford it, someone will pick up the tab. And that isn't the case, but by then, their heart is set on Cornell (limits loans to $3000 per year for those poor families making less than $120k per year.)

Thank you for posting that.

My point was that I did not go to my dream school, they did not accept financial aid (it was against their political beliefs) and I was not offered a "full ride" there. I settled on my second choice, and had about 80% covered. I also said it did not occur to me to apply for food stamps (and I was not directed to at my private, four year university). My grandmother and I were not on food stamps - however, we did take advantage of government surplus food days once or twice a month. I had a job since I was 14 and I lied about my age. I was taught to work hard and live within my means, values I still abide by to this day. It has served me well, I am at the top of my game, in demand, and can provide for my family.

It really rubbed me that a poster or two kept saying that there are full rides if you are that poor. That is a common misconception. Rarely is it completely free - the student is expected to work just to cover books and tuition and fees, let alone if the student decides to live off campus as I did my junior and senior years, and other living expenses. Unless you have been there, done that, please don't post it as fact. Your opinion may be that it seems like there is money free flowing if you are poor, but in my experience, it was not. Wiki was not around 15 years ago, let alone those programs at a FEW SELECT schools.

It is NOT that easy to break the cycle of poverty. I scored a 26 on the ACTs and had a 3.3 GPA, not exceptional, but not bad when you consider I was working and taking care of a dying grandmother in highschool in the inner city. I had a high school counselor that cared about me and a teacher that pushed me to find the right school. It was actually a teacher that went to check out colleges with me. Without them, and extended family that pitched in when they could, I would not be here.

All that being said, I still stand by my observation that she is spoiled. She blames the American Private Education System, that is certainly not to blame. Competition in higher education is a good thing - more choices, more options, and schools competing for talent - this is all good! Her lack of perspective and personal responsibility is to blame for her situation.

 

[Julia M]

I guess I am not surprised at students coming out of school with so much debt and not seeming to be aware at how signficant it can be for their futire. I mean, there are so many people out there who have poor money management skills, it's not surprising they don't give the best guidance to their kids.

My husband and I aren't the best at finances, but we did tell our son we could afford the state school system, or a school that would give him a WUE (Western Undergraduate Excahnge) I felt bad, because ds was interested in Oregon and we didn't even have him apply. We knew we wouldn't qualify for aid there was no way he'd wualify for a merit award. We made it clear we felt it was inmportant for him to graduate with little or no debt.

Fast forward to now-he is really enjoying his school choice and his dad and I can support him. I asked him recently if he regretted not looking at Oregon and it just didn't even matter.

Julia

 

[crisi]

All that being said, I still stand by my observation that she is spoiled. She blames the American Private Education System, that is certainly not to blame. Competition in higher education is a good thing - more choices, more options, and schools competing for talent - this is all good! Her lack of perspective and personal responsibility is to blame for her situation.

I don't know her. Her tone and some of the things she says implies that perhaps she'd like to blame others, but other things she says takes responsibility. She is posting a warning to others to read the fine print and consider the consequences and not just "believe" it will all work out like she did. Admitting that much publicly is taking some responsibility. But I'd have to know her a lot more than a short article to state she is spoiled.

I suspect its less that she is spoiled than she was simply unrealistic. She believed she'd step out of college into a good job. She believed (my husband did too, and it got him in trouble) that her loans would be easily consolidated into a lower rate. She believed she was passionate enough about public policy that all this would fall into place for her.

She did lots of things right. She spent the first two years at a Community College. When she went to school and spent $100k - she did it at a school that was excellent for her field of study - you'd be surprised how many people drop that much money for private schools without good reputations for their fields. She majored in something where it is possible to get a job in the field with a B.A. (although she probably still wants a Masters) - not something like English Literature.

It occurs to me - for whomever knows her - I have another acquaintance who followed her path - she left college and couldn't find a job - and did a stint with the Peace Corp. Then went and got a Master's degree and is now pretty well employed. I think the Peace Corp will help with loans (I can't remember) and its a great resume builder for public policy work.

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

I don't know her. Her tone and some of the things she says implies that perhaps she'd like to blame others, but other things she says takes responsibility. She is posting a warning to others to read the fine print and consider the consequences and not just "believe" it will all work out like she did. Admitting that much publicly is taking some responsibility. But I'd have to know her a lot more than a short article to state she is spoiled.

I suspect its less that she is spoiled than she was simply unrealistic. She believed she'd step out of college into a good job. She believed (my husband did too, and it got him in trouble) that her loans would be easily consolidated into a lower rate. She believed she was passionate enough about public policy that all this would fall into place for her.

She did lots of things right. She spent the first two years at a Community College. When she went to school and spent $100k - she did it at a school that was excellent for her field of study - you'd be surprised how many people drop that much money for private schools without good reputations for their fields. She majored in something where it is possible to get a job in the field with a B.A. (although she probably still wants a Masters) - not something like English Literature.

It occurs to me - for whomever knows her - I have another acquaintance who followed her path - she left college and couldn't find a job - and did a stint with the Peace Corp. Then went and got a Master's degree and is now pretty well employed. I think the Peace Corp will help with loans (I can't remember) and its a great resume builder for public policy work.

With her debt load, I highly doubt that she could afford to quit her job(s) and join the Peace Corps even if it would help to advance her career. At best, they pay a small amount of loans (compared to what she has). At worse, she'd probably have to take a forebearance on the loans and then have the interest tacked on as principal while she was in the Peace Corps. I'd be very surprised if she could take advantage of this option given her current financial/student loan situation.

 

[crisi]

With her debt load, I highly doubt that she could afford to quit her job(s) and join the Peace Corps even if it would help to advance her career. At best, they pay a small amount of loans (compared to what she has). At worse, she'd probably have to take a forebearance on the loans and then have the interest tacked on as principal while she was in the Peace Corps. I'd be very surprised if she could take advantage of this option given her current financial/student loan situation.

The Peace Corp can get you a deferment on some loans and forgive others. Not all loans, but some.

 

[Grumpy's Gal]

can anyone recommend any good books to read about helping the kids get financial aid or scholarships or anything? I wanted to read a book and there are hundreds out there! I'm sure with hundreds of suggestions contradicting the others. Anyone read a book they considered to be helpful?